Author Topic: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.  (Read 3224 times)

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Offline Mattdev

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Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« on: 19:34, 06 April 16 »
In the New Year I dusted off my old CPC464 which had been in the garage for a good number of years.  When I plugged it in the monitor (CTM 640 Colour) made a really loud crackling noise and I thought it was dead.  However, after trying it a few more times it powered up and it worked!  I cleaned out the dust from the computer and everything was working really well.


Last week, the screen on the monitor started jumping around and then when I turned it on there was no usual 'flash' and noise, just a silence when I turned it on and it didn't work.  I am going to try to get it fixed but thus far everywhere I have called up locally have said they do not fix old monitors anymore. 


Therefore, I saw the Cool Novelties Amstrad Scart lead and plug and promptly purchased it from Ebay.  I have a  19" Alba LCD TV which I bought the other month to use with my Commodore Amiga.  It works really well with the Amiga. 


However, when I connected my 464 to the Alba TV the picture was really clear but when you play any games on it, the scrolling is abysmal and most games are unplayable as it cannot handle the speed of things moving on the screen.


Following this, I found another old LCD TV in the garage yesterday which I hooked up to the 464.  The scrolling and picture are brilliant.  However, this time the TV powers off after playing for only a minute or so at a time.  You then have to put it on standby and turn it on again so I'm not sure if that TV is just so old that it is broken or something to do with the Amstrad.


Today I found an old charity shop in town and purchased a Toshiba CRT TV which is about as heavy as my original CRT 640.  I just plugged the scart in the back from the Amstrad but the picture is just totally wobbly and you cannot make out anything at all!


I wondered if anyone could help as to what I can do to use my Amstrad again.  I've bought lots of old games recently but now I cannot play them at all.


I have tried the Scart lead on 3 TV's and none of them work properly.  Is it the Scart lead?


I am now thinking of buying a second hand MP1 modulator but know that the quality is poor.  However, I would rather have poor quality than nothing!


I forgot to mention, when I hooked the 464 up to my main TV in the front room (Panasonic 29" LCD) it works perfectly!  Perfect scrolling and picture.  However, I don't want to have to keep setting it up in the front room and then taking it down again.


Thanks in advance

Offline Zoe Robinson

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #1 on: 22:25, 06 April 16 »
It sounds like you're having similar problems to me, with the signal from the scary lead not being powerful enough. Someone (chinny?) suggested boosting the signal with an in-line battery, but maybe I've misremembered that.

Offline Mattdev

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #2 on: 22:37, 06 April 16 »
I did wonder if it was a power issue, particularly when working with the TV that powers off intermittently.  Are you using yours on a TV via a scart lead too?

Offline CanonMan

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #3 on: 23:41, 06 April 16 »
It sounds like you're having similar problems to me, with the signal from the scary lead not being powerful enough. Someone (chinny?) suggested boosting the signal with an in-line battery, but maybe I've misremembered that.


"scary lead"


My favourite typo ever  :laugh:

Offline khaz

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #4 on: 00:34, 07 April 16 »
I did wonder if it was a power issue, particularly when working with the TV that powers off intermittently.  Are you using yours on a TV via a scart lead too?

It could be. What cable are you using? Can you post a picture or a video of what's happening on the CRT? Have you tried fiddling with the scart plug to see if it wasn't a problem with the socket itself? Scart sockets are notoriously fragile and repeated insertion can break the soldering points and leave either the colour or sync wires unconnected, leading to these sort of problem.
« Last Edit: 03:53, 07 April 16 by khaz »

Offline Zoe Robinson

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #5 on: 02:44, 07 April 16 »

"scary lead"


My favourite typo ever  :laugh:


Clearly my phone likes to make jokes at my expense.

Offline Audronic

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #6 on: 04:26, 07 April 16 »
@Mattdev


Does the 19" Alba LCD TV  have a HDMI Input.

Ray
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Offline Mattdev

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #7 on: 11:18, 07 April 16 »
It could be. What cable are you using? Can you post a picture or a video of what's happening on the CRT? Have you tried fiddling with the scart plug to see if it wasn't a problem with the socket itself? Scart sockets are notoriously fragile and repeated insertion can break the soldering points and leave either the colour or sync wires unconnected, leading to these sort of problem.
The cable I am using is the RGB-Scart cable from Cool-Novelties:  AMSTRAD CPC 464 TV CONNECTION KIT - PSU ADAPTER & RGB SCART CABLE | eBay
AMSTRAD CPC 464 TV CONNECTION KIT - PSU ADAPTER & RGB SCART CABLE | eBay   

Here is a picture of the screen when connected to the Toshiba CRT TV yesterday.  The weird thing is, the cable works fine on my Panasonic LCD TV but not the others.

[attachimg=1]

Audronic - Yes, the Alba LCD TV has 2 x HDMI inputs.  How can I connect the Amstrad using HDMI?

Thanks for all your help so far.  :)

Offline Bryce

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #8 on: 11:40, 07 April 16 »
That picture says the TV isn't happy with the CSync signal. The one that keeps switching off is probably the easiest to fix. It sounds like the TV doesn't think it's getting a signal, so doing the "boost" that Zoe spoke about, either with a capacitor or a battery will probably fix it.

Bryce.

Offline Mattdev

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #9 on: 11:56, 07 April 16 »
Thanks Bryce.  I had a quick search on how to do this last night and came across a thread about it.  I have absolutely no skills when it comes to this!  Do I just need to put an AA battery against pin 16 somehow?  Are there any links to some pictures on how to do this?  I'm worried that in doing this I will break the scart lead somehow and will not be able to use it.

Also, the charity shop I purchased the Toshiba from (in the pic above) said if it doesn't work then I can swap for other CRT's they have in there.  I'm going to bring my Amstrad into the shop and ask to test it on the 4-5 different CRT's they have in the hope that it may work on one of them.  They had a Grundig, Bush and some others so maybe one will work.  Is it really a lottery like this when using with a CRT?


Offline Bryce

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #10 on: 12:13, 07 April 16 »
The battery needs to be connected to pin 16 (Positive) and Pin 18 (Negative). There's more info on all sorts of alternatives here: TV SCART cable - CPCWiki

Bryce.

Offline Mattdev

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #11 on: 12:29, 07 April 16 »
Thanks again Bryce, but I wouldn't have a clue where to start.  I just had a look at the Scart lead and wouldn't even know how to take the cap off to get to the wires underneath!  Surely, hooking up the computer to a TV should not be this difficult!

Offline Bryce

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #12 on: 12:33, 07 April 16 »
Unfortunately it's not as straight forward as one might wish. Mainly due to the fact that these computers didn't stick close enough to certain standards. They were designed at a time when everything was analogue and TVs were very "forgiving" as to how exact the levels and frequencies were. Modern digital TVs are much more fussy.

Bryce.

P.s.: To open a SCART connector you have to unscrew the plastic ring where the cable leaves the connector. The two sides of the connector then hinge open.

Offline Mattdev

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #13 on: 12:36, 07 April 16 »
Yes you're right.  I just wish there was an old fashioned TV repair shop round here and then I could try to get my original monitor repaired.  I'm determined to get it all working though and will continue to find a solution.  Again, thanks for your help.  :)

Offline Bryce

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #14 on: 12:45, 07 April 16 »
Unfortunately TV repair shops went out of business when we became a throw-away society. It's fine for small hardware (I fix many computers every month), but posting a CRT just isn't viable. Where exactly are you based? I may be able to recommend someone relatively near to you.

Bryce.

Offline Mattdev

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #15 on: 12:58, 07 April 16 »
I'm based in North Devon.  It'd be great if you knew of someone down here in the South West.  Thanks.

Offline Bryce

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #16 on: 14:33, 07 April 16 »
Just sent you a PM.

Bryce.

Offline Audronic

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #17 on: 15:26, 07 April 16 »
@Mattdev

Have a Look here :-

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/hardware-related/has-anybody-used-hdmi-and-an-lcd-monitor-on-a-cpc-6128/msg119406/#msg119406.

This is what i have used and it works well on a range of Monitors that have a HDMI Input.
Only 1 resistor to add, and the purchase of the Converter. Below is the model i used have a look on Ebay for best price.

Scart to HDMI Scaler Box Converter Adapter RGB CVBS YC Compatible HDTV 1080p DG

Good luck

Ray
« Last Edit: 15:44, 07 April 16 by Audronic »
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Offline Mattdev

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #18 on: 16:05, 07 April 16 »
Thanks Ray, this looks really good.  I will have a look to see if I can source one from the UK.

I've got a fair few options now from yourself and Bryce, but first of all I am going to take the 464 to the charity shop this afternoon and test it on their CRT TV's to see if it works on them. 

I'm also in contact with Cool Novelties who are looking into the problem for me.  I am going to send them a video of the Alba TV screen.  They said the following:

"the cables we make are designed to work with all TVs, we even include the enhanced "active" cable to produce a better picture.  The only issues are usually ghosting on the image when the RGB mode is not fully switched on, hence the use of the "active" lead to power the cable.
"

Has anyone used the 'enhanced cable'? 

I must say, thanks to all for your help so far.  It's great to know there is such a supportive CPC community out there.  :)

Offline Bryce

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #19 on: 16:09, 07 April 16 »
 :D "Enhanced" my arse!!! They're just trying to sell it up. The active/enhanced bit just adds the voltage to pin 16 as described above.

Bryce.

Offline Mattdev

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #20 on: 16:18, 07 April 16 »
I did wonder what they meant by that and also why is it not on the standard cable anyway!

Offline Mattdev

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #21 on: 16:32, 07 April 16 »
Here is a video showing the ghosting and double vision on Karl's Treasure Hunt from the Alba LED TV.  Had to attach as a zip as wouldn't let me upload the .mov file.

« Last Edit: 16:59, 07 April 16 by Mattdev »

Offline Mattdev

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #22 on: 17:01, 07 April 16 »
If this bit of cable adds the voltage to pin 16 on the Scart then why does it not work on my other TV.  If it did then surely the TV wouldn't keep switching off?

Offline Bryce

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #23 on: 17:14, 07 April 16 »
Did you have a PSU or battery connected to the bit of cable?  ::)

Bryce.

Offline Mattdev

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Re: Problem getting 464 to work on a TV.
« Reply #24 on: 17:20, 07 April 16 »
The bit of cable is connected to a PSU.  Here is a pic of how it is connected on the back of the machine.


[attachimg=1]


I also got a message back from the cable company saying:


"Yes that's correctly wired.  The non-active cable doesn't have the little tail wire with the PSU socket on it.  I've just heard back from Rob the CPC guy and he suspects it's a faulty ULA chip within the Amstrad or a video processor fault.   With the display being identical on both of your TVs it does sound the most logical diagnosis.Have you an RF cable to connect to your TV?  Your JVC TV has an ATV analog tuner - if the image is still the same it would confirm a hardware fault."


I have replied back saying that it works perfectly well on my larger Panasonic TV so am confused how it could be a fault with the 464?!?


Cheers,
Matt