"3.5 inch USB SSD Floppy Drive Emulator 1.44MB": Could this be a Poor Man's HxC?

[OCT]

For some reason, heading here from Hong Kong, this hitherto "Unidentified Floppy Object" has just intruded my radar range:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-5-1-44MB-USB-SSD-Floppy-Drive-Emulator-Replacement-/220790257465
(apparently available from various vendors sharing the product code of T000110828 - picked one offering the most comprehensive imagery at least with JavaScript enabled...)

Looks like a somewhat ret^Hstricted little sibling to the famous HxC emulator, missing of course the character display and menu system of the latter.

But... it does come in the drop-in replacement 3.5" form factor (ideal for industrial machinery, musical equipment, all sorts of 16-bits, and last but not least the CPC 6128plus) we'd always wished the HxC had - in addition to a much more affordable price point.

Has anyone ever seen it in action, let alone tested on a CPC?

[Ynot.zer0]

I'm liking to the look of this, very much!   

(I'd be very interested to hear what the electronics guru's on the forum have to say about this little gadget)


So, I just checked out this version: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230629327814#ht_1623wt_775
and the text states that the USB Pen drive is just formatted to 720k (no matter how large it is! no where did I put those 32Mb usb promo sticks from the marketing department back in 2001?) and then you can copy DSK file from PC and then get the CPC to read from it?... is that logic correct or did I read it wrong? I'm thinking I got it wrong as it says that it can have 100 floppies per USB stick... kind of implies that the buttons on the front will cycle through the floppy disk images.  I'm really curious how this would work?


(okay, so I see that the above is 1.44Mb and the 720 version is much more expensive than the one found by OCT (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-5-720Kb-720k-USB-FLOPPY-DRIVE-EMULATOR-CNC-Bootable-/230630341545?pt=UK_Computing_FloppyDiskDrives_SM&hash=item35b2a3bba9#ht_1469wt_775))

[robcfg]

Hello everyone!


Some time ago I bought a similar unit, and it works by formatting the SD card like a bunch of (choose your own poison here) 720Kb, 1.2M or 1.44M floppies, DOS formatted.


So for retro machines it is not useful, but for an aging PC it can be a good idea.


Regards,
Rob

[steve]

.... the 720 version is much more expensive than the one found by OCT (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-5-720Kb-720k-USB-FLOPPY-DRIVE-EMULATOR-CNC-Bootable-/230630341545?pt=UK_Computing_FloppyDiskDrives_SM&hash=item35b2a3bba9#ht_1469wt_775))

If this unit can only put one floppy image on each usb stick then it really is not worth the money, as even 3" disks are cheaper then usb sticks.

[Jeff_HxC2001]

I have one of these device here :

-> Only one format supported :
720KB (MFM 80*2*9*512)
OR
1.44MB (MFM 80*2*18*512)
= No CPC format support

All is hardcoded, it's a sector based floppy emulator, sector read data are read by the emulator from the usb key and encoded by the emulator: no mfm track, so no way to hack it to support CPC track...
In fact sectors of the USB key are directly mapped on the floppy sector:
So :
Sector 0 of the usb key = Sector 1 of the track 0 side 0 (DISK 00)
Sector 1 of the usb key = Sector 2 of the track 0 side 0 (DISK 00)
...
...
Sector 2879 of the usb key =Sector 18 of the track 80 side 1 (DISK 00)
Sector 2880 of the usb key =Sector 1 of the track 0 side 0 (DISK 01)
...
...

-> Nothing to import/export DSK

[Gryzor]

Jeff to the rescue. A shame, but then again I had no idea that other solutions existed! It's not strange these are not aimed at retro enthusiasts...

[Bryce]

We use those (a very similar device) here at work, they're drop-in replacements for systems that used to have floppies such as older Oscilloscopes and measurement equipment, where we need to transfer data (our laptops don't have floppies any more). Fine for such jobs, but nowhere close to the flexibility and features of the HxC. The HxC is a floppy emulator AND an SDCard Floppy Archive, these other devices are just meant for getting the info on and off an old system.

Bryce.

[Jeff_HxC2001]

Jeff to the rescue. A shame, but then again I had no idea that other solutions existed! It's not strange these are not aimed at retro enthusiasts...

Maybe because they don't even know that there are "retro enthusiasts" on the world and/or they don't care (market too small...)

The other problem is that these devices are too cheap to be flexible enough to support all floppies/tracks format.

These devices are on the market since 2007/2008...

[remax]

Maybe because they don't even know that there are "retro enthusiasts" on the world and/or they don't care (market too small...)

The other problem is that these devices are too cheap to be flexible enough to support all floppies/tracks format.

These devices are on the market since 2007/2008...

well, on CPC Rulez, recently, a manufacturer of this kind of thing (same initial target of professionnals) went to make some kind of market study to see if these could change a little bit their devices to target retro enthusiast market...


So yes, they know we exist... at least some of them. But at the moment, they didn't seem flexible enough to be really interresting.

[norecess]

well, on CPC Rulez, recently, a manufacturer of this kind of thing

Yeah. it was the DATEX thing. The guy said "I will be back later with responses, I have to go in vacations". And then, I guess those vacations are awesome and long and everything like that, since no answers came from there


More seriously, the only safe solution right now is the HxC. Many hours have been spent on hardware+software side, it's really tied to the "small home retro market" and working as expected with the CPC. Why searching for alternatives? 

[CPCLER]

Yes why indeed 

More seriously, the only safe solution right now is the HxC. Many hours have been spent on hardware+software side, it's really tied to the "small home retro market" and working as expected with the CPC. Why searching for alternatives? 

[norecess]

Actually, it's not to make blind advertising about Jeff's HxC - the product already makes good advertising by itself after all


No.. what I really do enjoy is Jeff's presence - he delivered the product, working from day 1 and still bringing active support around it. It's very safe for the community !

[Gryzor]

I couldn't agree more, not only is this a great product but Jeff provides *fantastic* support. But I wish there was a solution at half the price

[Jeff_HxC2001]

I couldn't agree more, not only is this a great product but Jeff provides *fantastic* support. But I wish there was a solution at half the price

Price of the standard D T X 200 is €295.
The following options are sold between €60 and €120:
multi-capacity
up to 16 diskettes on the same CF card with addressing
up to 99 diskettes on the same CF card with addressing

So maybe in the future but not right now .

[Jeff_HxC2001]

well, on CPC Rulez, recently, a manufacturer of this kind of thing (same initial target of professionnals) went to make some kind of market study to see if these could change a little bit their devices to target retro enthusiast market...


So yes, they know we exist... at least some of them. But at the moment, they didn't seem flexible enough to be really interresting.

mmhhh in fact i think that their motivation to post on cpcrulez was not the cpc....
search for 'floppy emulator' or 'hxc floppy' on google you will understand...

[OCT]

More seriously, the only safe solution right now is the HxC. Many hours have been spent on hardware+software side, it's really tied to the "small home retro market" and working as expected with the CPC. Why searching for alternatives? 

18 quid, and in the form factor many have been waiting for, that's why.

But don't get me wrong, I do very much appreciate what Jeff & Lotharek have provided us with (and support to the point of joining this discussion the same night, explaining how "the other guys" do their -lamer- tricks, and even a video making their gear usable to an English-speaking audience) - and I'm sure the HxC emulator's price tag is justified for offering so much more than that kind of competition.

It's just that the HxC emulator should also come with some kind of faceplates (if not plastic housing) at least to avoid drilling&cutting button&display holes into the cases of delicate decades-old collectors' items. Someone has to make the molds for http://www.qhsfd.com/product.asp - now isn't the next step to get them filled with the better boards based on Jeff's much more advanced design, and an appropriately sized LCD or (O)LED?

[Jeff_HxC2001]

18 quid, and in the form factor many have been waiting for, that's why.

But don't get me wrong, I do very much appreciate what Jeff & Lotharek have provided us with (and support to the point of joining this discussion the same night, explaining how "the other guys" do their -lamer- tricks, and even a video making their gear usable to an English-speaking audience) - and I'm sure the HxC emulator's price tag is justified for offering so much more than that kind of competition.

It's just that the HxC emulator should also come with some kind of faceplates (if not plastic housing) at least to avoid drilling&cutting button&display holes into the cases of delicate decades-old collectors' items. Someone has to make the molds for http://www.qhsfd.com/product.asp - now isn't the next step to get them filled with the better boards based on Jeff's much more advanced design, and an appropriately sized LCD or (O)LED?

3"1/2 case solution is planned but i cannot tell when this will be ready.
A case cost a lot in a low volume market (<100000)... So we need something already available.
About getting this case, this is a good idea, but i need to know who is the manufacturer .
It's probably 100% chinese, so hard to say right now.

[Gryzor]

An OLED screen? LED would probably be much more than enough, but even so it'd get pretty expensive?

[OCT]

An OLED screen? LED would probably be much more than enough, but even so it'd get pretty expensive?

Of course I was thinking "monochrome el-cheapo OLEDs" such as http://www.lcd-store.de/xaranshop_k001002s001_1.htm (as one option, and in brackets at that) which sometimes can be had at a price point almost similar to backlit LCDs (and compatible to their HD44780 controllers), but with a much better contrast and viewing angle, especially for home computers that are not typically used "at nose height" (while some around here might bow down daily before their CPC to worship the eternal 8-bit bus, I doubt many would want to do this repeatedly just to decipher an LCD).
Standard LEDs just have more depth to them (not that we couldn't accomodate for that in a drive bay) and probably higher total current, but also longevity in excess of "just" tens of thousands of operating hours.

[Gryzor]

That's a nice one. Still pricey, but I'll take your word for better prices... yes, it'd be cool!

[kikendo]

It seems the Amiga community has hacked these devices and got them to load Amiga files.
I bet the same can be done for the CPC!
Cortex Amiga Floppy Emulator

[Token]

Very nice! It seems really easy and fun enough to try... After reading and testing the tools and driver, I just bought the Gotek 3 digits (black, but there's white too) and the TTL cable on Ebay for 24€ shipped, but need to wait at least 2 weeks, China    I cleaned my Amiga 500 last week, I didn't used it since 93, it's a really cool post Kikendo!

[TFM]

Yes, well, HxC could now really become cheaper. I guess the development costs are more than payed back.
Ok, it's effort to built them, but a kit would be a nice alternative for people who can not spend too much money.


Personally I just have to stay one Friday out of my favorite bar, and I save the money a HxC costs. 

[Bryce]

Yes, well, HxC could now really become cheaper. I guess the development costs are more than payed back.
Ok, it's effort to built them, but a kit would be a nice alternative for people who can not spend too much money.


Personally I just have to stay one Friday out of my favorite bar, and I save the money a HxC costs. 

Selling kits tends to be avoided by most developers, it's just too much hassle. You spend more time answering e-mails from people that didn't get it to work properly than you would have spent building it yourself.

You either go to a very expensive bar or you need to cut down on your consumption

Bryce.

[robcfg]

It would be interesting to be able to have a firmware that could allow for more machines, though the accomplishment is remarkable.


I have an older model with two digit display, and I could use it on several machines...