For some reason, heading here from Hong Kong, this hitherto "Unidentified Floppy Object" :) has just intruded my radar range:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-5-1-44MB-USB-SSD-Floppy-Drive-Emulator-Replacement-/220790257465 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-5-1-44MB-USB-SSD-Floppy-Drive-Emulator-Replacement-/220790257465)
(apparently available from various vendors sharing the product code of T000110828 - picked one offering the most comprehensive imagery at least with JavaScript enabled...)
Looks like a somewhat ret^Hstricted ;) little sibling to the famous HxC emulator, missing of course the character display and menu system of the latter.
But... it does come in the drop-in replacement 3.5" form factor (ideal for industrial machinery, musical equipment, all sorts of 16-bits, and last but not least the CPC 6128plus) we'd always wished the HxC had - in addition to a much more affordable price point.
Has anyone ever seen it in action, let alone tested on a CPC?
I'm liking to the look of this, very much! :o
(I'd be very interested to hear what the electronics guru's on the forum have to say about this little gadget)
So, I just checked out this version: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230629327814#ht_1623wt_775 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230629327814#ht_1623wt_775)
and the text states that the USB Pen drive is just formatted to 720k (no matter how large it is! no where did I put those 32Mb usb promo sticks from the marketing department back in 2001?) and then you can copy DSK file from PC and then get the CPC to read from it?... is that logic correct or did I read it wrong? I'm thinking I got it wrong as it says that it can have 100 floppies per USB stick... kind of implies that the buttons on the front will cycle through the floppy disk images. I'm really curious how this would work?
(okay, so I see that the above is 1.44Mb and the 720 version is much more expensive than the one found by OCT (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-5-720Kb-720k-USB-FLOPPY-DRIVE-EMULATOR-CNC-Bootable-/230630341545?pt=UK_Computing_FloppyDiskDrives_SM&hash=item35b2a3bba9#ht_1469wt_775 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-5-720Kb-720k-USB-FLOPPY-DRIVE-EMULATOR-CNC-Bootable-/230630341545?pt=UK_Computing_FloppyDiskDrives_SM&hash=item35b2a3bba9#ht_1469wt_775)))
Hello everyone!
Some time ago I bought a similar unit, and it works by formatting the SD card like a bunch of (choose your own poison here) 720Kb, 1.2M or 1.44M floppies, DOS formatted.
So for retro machines it is not useful, but for an aging PC it can be a good idea.
Regards,
Rob
Quote from: ynot.zer0 on 21:49, 19 June 11
.... the 720 version is much more expensive than the one found by OCT (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-5-720Kb-720k-USB-FLOPPY-DRIVE-EMULATOR-CNC-Bootable-/230630341545?pt=UK_Computing_FloppyDiskDrives_SM&hash=item35b2a3bba9#ht_1469wt_775 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-5-720Kb-720k-USB-FLOPPY-DRIVE-EMULATOR-CNC-Bootable-/230630341545?pt=UK_Computing_FloppyDiskDrives_SM&hash=item35b2a3bba9#ht_1469wt_775)))
If this unit can only put one floppy image on each usb stick then it really is not worth the money, as even 3" disks are cheaper then usb sticks.
I have one of these device here :
-> Only one format supported :
720KB (MFM 80*2*9*512)
OR
1.44MB (MFM 80*2*18*512)
= No CPC format support
All is hardcoded, it's a sector based floppy emulator, sector read data are read by the emulator from the usb key and encoded by the emulator: no mfm track, so no way to hack it to support CPC track...
In fact sectors of the USB key are directly mapped on the floppy sector:
So :
Sector 0 of the usb key = Sector 1 of the track 0 side 0 (DISK 00)
Sector 1 of the usb key = Sector 2 of the track 0 side 0 (DISK 00)
...
...
Sector 2879 of the usb key =Sector 18 of the track 80 side 1 (DISK 00)
Sector 2880 of the usb key =Sector 1 of the track 0 side 0 (DISK 01)
...
...
-> Nothing to import/export DSK
Jeff to the rescue. A shame, but then again I had no idea that other solutions existed! It's not strange these are not aimed at retro enthusiasts...
We use those (a very similar device) here at work, they're drop-in replacements for systems that used to have floppies such as older Oscilloscopes and measurement equipment, where we need to transfer data (our laptops don't have floppies any more). Fine for such jobs, but nowhere close to the flexibility and features of the HxC. The HxC is a floppy emulator AND an SDCard Floppy Archive, these other devices are just meant for getting the info on and off an old system.
Bryce.
Quote from: Gryzor on 07:47, 20 June 11
Jeff to the rescue. A shame, but then again I had no idea that other solutions existed! It's not strange these are not aimed at retro enthusiasts...
Maybe because they don't even know that there are "retro enthusiasts" on the world and/or they don't care (market too small...) ;)
The other problem is that these devices are too cheap to be flexible enough to support all floppies/tracks format.
These devices are on the market since 2007/2008...
Quote from: Jeff_HxC2001 on 09:57, 20 June 11
Maybe because they don't even know that there are "retro enthusiasts" on the world and/or they don't care (market too small...) ;)
The other problem is that these devices are too cheap to be flexible enough to support all floppies/tracks format.
These devices are on the market since 2007/2008...
well, on CPC Rulez, recently, a manufacturer of this kind of thing (same initial target of professionnals) went to make some kind of market study to see if these could change a little bit their devices to target retro enthusiast market...
So yes, they know we exist... at least some of them. But at the moment, they didn't seem flexible enough to be really interresting.
Quotewell, on CPC Rulez, recently, a manufacturer of this kind of thing
Yeah. it was the DATEX thing. The guy said "I will be back later with responses, I have to go in vacations". And then, I guess those vacations are awesome and long and everything like that, since no answers came from there :)
More seriously, the only safe solution right now is the HxC. Many hours have been spent on hardware+software side, it's really tied to the "small home retro market" and working as expected with the CPC. Why searching for alternatives? 8)
Yes why indeed :)
Quote from: norecess on 14:33, 20 June 11
More seriously, the only safe solution right now is the HxC. Many hours have been spent on hardware+software side, it's really tied to the "small home retro market" and working as expected with the CPC. Why searching for alternatives? 8)
Actually, it's not to make blind advertising about Jeff's HxC - the product already makes good advertising by itself after all :)
No.. what I really do enjoy is Jeff's presence - he delivered the product, working from day 1 and still bringing active support around it. It's very safe for the community !
I couldn't agree more, not only is this a great product but Jeff provides *fantastic* support. But I wish there was a solution at half the price ;)
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:18, 20 June 11
I couldn't agree more, not only is this a great product but Jeff provides *fantastic* support. But I wish there was a solution at half the price ;)
Quote
Price of the standard D T X 200 is €295.
The following options are sold between €60 and €120:
multi-capacity
up to 16 diskettes on the same CF card with addressing
up to 99 diskettes on the same CF card with addressing
So maybe in the future but not right now ;) .
Quote from: remax on 14:23, 20 June 11
well, on CPC Rulez, recently, a manufacturer of this kind of thing (same initial target of professionnals) went to make some kind of market study to see if these could change a little bit their devices to target retro enthusiast market...
So yes, they know we exist... at least some of them. But at the moment, they didn't seem flexible enough to be really interresting.
mmhhh in fact i think that their motivation to post on cpcrulez was not the cpc....
search for 'floppy emulator' or 'hxc floppy' on google you will understand...
Quote from: norecess on 14:33, 20 June 11
More seriously, the only safe solution right now is the HxC. Many hours have been spent on hardware+software side, it's really tied to the "small home retro market" and working as expected with the CPC. Why searching for alternatives? 8)
18 quid, and in the form factor many have been waiting for, that's why. ;)
But don't get me wrong, I do very much appreciate what Jeff & Lotharek have provided us with (and support to the point of joining this discussion the same night, explaining how "the other guys" do their -lamer- tricks, and even a video making their gear usable to an English-speaking audience) - and I'm sure the HxC emulator's price tag is justified for offering so much more than that kind of competition.
It's just that the HxC emulator should also come with some kind of faceplates (if not plastic housing) at least to avoid drilling&cutting button&display holes into the cases of delicate decades-old collectors' items. Someone has to make the molds for http://www.qhsfd.com/product.asp (http://www.qhsfd.com/product.asp) - now isn't the next step to get them filled with the better boards based on Jeff's much more advanced design, and an appropriately sized LCD or (O)LED?
Quote from: OCT on 18:44, 20 June 11
18 quid, and in the form factor many have been waiting for, that's why. ;)
But don't get me wrong, I do very much appreciate what Jeff & Lotharek have provided us with (and support to the point of joining this discussion the same night, explaining how "the other guys" do their -lamer- tricks, and even a video making their gear usable to an English-speaking audience) - and I'm sure the HxC emulator's price tag is justified for offering so much more than that kind of competition.
It's just that the HxC emulator should also come with some kind of faceplates (if not plastic housing) at least to avoid drilling&cutting button&display holes into the cases of delicate decades-old collectors' items. Someone has to make the molds for http://www.qhsfd.com/product.asp (http://www.qhsfd.com/product.asp) - now isn't the next step to get them filled with the better boards based on Jeff's much more advanced design, and an appropriately sized LCD or (O)LED?
3"1/2 case solution is planned but i cannot tell when this will be ready.
A case cost a lot in a low volume market (<100000)... So we need something already available.
About getting this case, this is a good idea, but i need to know who is the manufacturer ;).
It's probably 100% chinese, so hard to say right now.
An OLED screen? LED would probably be much more than enough, but even so it'd get pretty expensive?
Quote from: Gryzor on 11:03, 21 June 11
An OLED screen? LED would probably be much more than enough, but even so it'd get pretty expensive?
Of course I was thinking "monochrome el-cheapo OLEDs" such as http://www.lcd-store.de/xaranshop_k001002s001_1.htm (http://www.lcd-store.de/xaranshop_k001002s001_1.htm) (as one option, and in brackets at that) which sometimes can be had at a price point almost similar to backlit LCDs (and compatible to their HD44780 controllers), but with a much better contrast and viewing angle, especially for home computers that are not typically used "at nose height" (while some around here might bow down daily before their CPC to worship the eternal 8-bit bus, ;) I doubt many would want to do this repeatedly just to decipher an LCD).
Standard LEDs just have more depth to them (not that we couldn't accomodate for that in a drive bay) and probably higher total current, but also longevity in excess of "just" tens of thousands of operating hours.
That's a nice one. Still pricey, but I'll take your word for better prices... yes, it'd be cool!
It seems the Amiga community has hacked these devices and got them to load Amiga files.
I bet the same can be done for the CPC!
Cortex Amiga Floppy Emulator (http://cortexamigafloppydrive.wordpress.com/)
Very nice! It seems really easy and fun enough to try... After reading and testing the tools and driver, I just bought the Gotek 3 digits (black, but there's white too) and the TTL cable on Ebay for 24€ shipped, but need to wait at least 2 weeks, China ;D I cleaned my Amiga 500 last week, I didn't used it since 93, it's a really cool post Kikendo!
Yes, well, HxC could now really become cheaper. I guess the development costs are more than payed back.
Ok, it's effort to built them, but a kit would be a nice alternative for people who can not spend too much money.
Personally I just have to stay one Friday out of my favorite bar, and I save the money a HxC costs. :P
Quote from: TFM on 02:55, 07 February 14
Yes, well, HxC could now really become cheaper. I guess the development costs are more than payed back.
Ok, it's effort to built them, but a kit would be a nice alternative for people who can not spend too much money.
Personally I just have to stay one Friday out of my favorite bar, and I save the money a HxC costs. :P
Selling kits tends to be avoided by most developers, it's just too much hassle. You spend more time answering e-mails from people that didn't get it to work properly than you would have spent building it yourself.
You either go to a very expensive bar or you need to cut down on your consumption :D
Bryce.
It would be interesting to be able to have a firmware that could allow for more machines, though the accomplishment is remarkable.
I have an older model with two digit display, and I could use it on several machines... :D
Quote from: kikendo on 21:32, 06 February 14
It seems the Amiga community has hacked these devices and got them to load Amiga files.
I bet the same can be done for the CPC!
Cortex Amiga Floppy Emulator (http://cortexamigafloppydrive.wordpress.com/)
Really nice! If it was done for the Amiga it can probably be done for other machines too?
Quote from: Gryzor on 18:00, 07 February 14
Really nice! If it was done for the Amiga it can probably be done for other machines too?
Someone called Edglex is trying to do it =]
I can't wait to test it myself on the Amiga, and see if it's nice to use. Then I might buy more of these :P
"Hi there, I'm interested in making this work with amstrad CPC dsk files (which also MFM encoding). It would be quicker for me to do so if you'd share the source code though. Would you consider it? I would keep the code private if that's what you want"
Crossing fingers :)
teh winrar
Lucky :D
Hervemessinger, who did the hack just wrote that "In fact i plan to add the cpc dsk support myself. I have a CPC too"
And just when I was getting sdiskemul working (going to keep working on it though)!
£20 for a floppy emulator is awesome, hope it happens!
Damn I need the TTL cable now.
I have the SSD floppy since this morning. Fast! Last time it was just a spdif cable, it tooks more than a month. It's very light and it doesn't need to be opened to see the connectors for the firmware. It comes with 4 black screws too. (smaller than the CPC side thought)
I might buy another TTL cable cause I think I made an error... It's not clear to me if RX & TX "are 3,3V". I wait a second answer from the seller, but he seem's not really know what to do with me ;(
from the ebay page:
"Note: After setting 3.3V and 5.0V output (this is
To the microcontroller power supply, no need to upgrade the machine)
please put the small plate unplug from the computer, set the jumper to take, do not charged to avoid damage to the device.
"
PL2303HX Cable Adaptateur Pour Arduino Convertisseur USB Vers Serie RS232 TTL | (http://www.ebay.fr/itm/PL2303HX-CABLE-ADAPTATEUR-POUR-ARDUINO-CONVERTISSEUR-USB-VERS-SERIE-RS232-TTL-/400545942205?pt=FR_JG_Informatique_Perpheriques_Hubs&hash=item5d42660abd)
Black cable-----GND
Green cable----TXD
White cable----RXD
Red cable ---- VCC (5V)
It looks very 5V to me... I saw other TTL cable with 5 connector, with the 3,3V
What are you connecting the TTL cable to?
Bryce.
The USB SSD Floppy Drive Emulator, I own the same Gotek now.
Cortex Amiga Floppy Emulator (http://cortexamigafloppydrive.wordpress.com/)
It was ok to me until I read and clicked MacDeath's cpcrulez link (RaspberryPi as HxC alternative (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/raspberrypi-as-hxc-alternative/))
http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5194&start=15 (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5194&start=15)
TotO wrote:
"
fano a écrit :
Un adaptateur serial USB suffit d'après ce qui est écrit , ça vaut trois fois rien.
(celui livré avec minibooster devrait faire l'affaire)
A condition de s'assurer que RX/TX sont biens en 3.3V, oui le câble pourrait faire l'affaire.
"
(sorry for the mess, he talk about the same floppy, the info is splitted everywhere ;))
As with all electronics, always refer to the datasheet: And according to this datasheet, your's is a 3.3V device.
http://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/PL2303HX.pdf (http://www.adafruit.com/datasheets/PL2303HX.pdf)
Bryce.
Nice :-*
Got mine for my Amigas 8)
After looking at the docs in the drivers CD, there is one particular model which looks nice... SFRM72-FU-DL
720kb, READY compatible, raw image support
Ok, not nice for CPC SYSTEM and DATA formats, because its IMAGE format is the same as WinImage or WinHex makes. That's IBM PC format. So IMAGEs only have raw sector dumps...
But CPC also reads IBM format, but with AMSDOS-CP/M filesystem...
This 720kb unit has IMAGE format because of nonDOS floppies support (MINIX, LINUX, propietary industrial apps, etc). Other models just have on the USB a directory structure with 000 001 002 003 names, and you put in them a bunch of files which size could not exceed 720kb in this case, 1.44mb on the other HD models. Looks like each model has specific firmware for it's capabilities... but hardware is the same always.
It looks as a nice testing subject... converting .DSK SYSTEM/DATA CPC images to IBM raw images looks trivial. I have made some simulations and will work on a comand line util for it.
Most of unprotected utils/games should work (Most of CPCgamesCD, compacted games, most cracked games...)
If it doesn't work? no problem, I reflash the unit for my Amigas and done, even if a CPC compatible firmware is made, I will use it also :)
Just got mine today.
You mean, there is not sector header :-\
About Amiga firmware , does it use a format (adf?) that allows raw track so maybe the FDC would be able to read theses.
Quote from: fano on 18:23, 27 February 14
Just got mine today.
You mean, there is not sector header :-\
About Amiga firmware , does it use a format (adf?) that allows raw track so maybe the FDC would be able to read theses.
With original firmware, and only on Gotek drives supporting IMAGE mode, .IMA format is used (.IMA .IMG .RAW) These formats are the ones Winimage or WinHex support. They are just the content of IBM PC formated floppies. Just 512kb+512kb+512kb+...... no header or other metadata of floppy disc. No problem on PC world because only IBM track format is used, no matter the filesystem is (fat, ext2, minix)
CPC supports IBM PC track format with Amsdos filesystem :) with correct conversion of DSK with Amsdos filesystem with no special tracks, should work as if a Linux image is used on a PC with the Gotek drive, for example.
So that particular model of Gotek 720kb+ready should work with CPC until a firmware for any generic Gotek is made.
I don't want to piss off the possible CPC compatible firmware, just need a working Gotek for April, for the retromadrid event... don't mind is this hack or is the DSKble firmware.
Remember I'speaking only about the Gotek which supports image mode, is 720kb mode and supports jumpering into READY mode
On the other hand, Amiga dedicated firmware handles .ADF files fine, so Amiga special tracks and any raw stuff should work, because the firmware is dedicated to that format.
I really hope and want that a DSK firmware sees the light :)
me too !
Maybe having a common format like Hxc one would be better.
The main problem finaly is we need a CPC software to select files in slots...
Yes but until then, a bunch of 000.IMG, 001.IMG, ... 099.IMG and the 2 select buttons for + and - the image numbers as selector will we my friends :)
100 floppy images for an original Gotek firmware is not so bad :D
Got it!!! I have the software for making compatible images with the original Gotek 720kREADY Firmware model SFRM72-FU-DL...
Best of it is that also works for dumping simple DATA , SYSTEM and IBM DSKs through USB floppy drives, because the image created is rawwrite compatible. Also notice that in all cases the DSK gets converted into IBM CPC format to allow the CPC accessing it with PC sector marks...
Here the experimental and buggy (lacks full error checks) DSKIMA
http://mega.co.nz/#F!2JkUDb7C!HC85bXhbsB5b6p3kCUuCkQ (http://mega.co.nz/#F!2JkUDb7C!HC85bXhbsB5b6p3kCUuCkQ)
Still waiting my 720k Gotek.... :)
So now there is a CPC-friendly firmware for those Gotek FDemulators ?
I do have one... would come handy for my A500 or any CPC, perhaps STe as well ?
Finally it is just that the manufacturer simply ignored the retromachine ?
Quote from: MacDeath on 09:56, 03 March 14
So now there is a CPC-friendly firmware for those Gotek FDemulators ?
Yes and no... Is one specific model of Gotek with its original firmware (And firmwares are protected, unable to extract... :( )
Model: SFRM72-FU-DL.
Why is CPC friendly: 720K IBM PC format image loader, READY signal option (jumer set)
So I can "force" a IBM CPC format disc to fit in an IBM PC format image so the CPC founds the sectors where they are supposed to be :)
Quote
I do have one... would come handy for my A500 or any CPC, perhaps STe as well ?
Which model is? if is not the above listed model, no way for CPC untill the custom firmware is done.
For Amiga no problem, Just get a TTL to RS232 cable and flash the custom firmware for AMIGA/ADF, all drives are the same, only difference is the manufacturer firmware, each model comes with a different one.
Quote
Finally it is just that the manufacturer simply ignored the retromachine ?
Maybe manufacturer don't know ever retromachine market exists, or just sees it as very small... These drives are supposed to replace a more industrial kind of machines, where you need to emulate certain sensible hardware and can't deal with replacing the whole machine with modern devices...
But be careful, you should wait until my 720k Gotek arrives and made some tests, before you adventure to pick one...
Surely a dedicated DSK firmware will ve developed, but if I'm making this test is to ensure I got a Gotek drive working on a CPC, with this hack or with the future custom firmware. ;)
Quote from: TFM on 02:55, 07 February 14
Yes, well, HxC could now really become cheaper. I guess the development costs are more than payed back.
Ok, it's effort to built them, but a kit would be a nice alternative for people who can not spend too much money.
Personally I just have to stay one Friday out of my favorite bar, and I save the money a HxC costs.
Quote from: Bryce on 10:53, 07 February 14
Selling kits tends to be avoided by most developers, it's just too much hassle. You spend more time answering e-mails from people that didn't get it to work properly than you would have spent building it yourself.
You either go to a very expensive bar or you need to cut down on your consumption
Bryce.
Exactly : The HxC was a kit solution in the first years : A true nightmare. I will never pass time anymore to debug bad soldered boards through email or forum. This has almost killed the project before that Lotharek run the production 5 years ago...
About the price : I am sorry to say that we will not decrease them, but probably increase them with some new hardware (with a new domain as target). We are not yet ready to work for nothing Mr TFM ;).
And no, i don't consider that the development costs is payed back since i constantly develop the firmware/software & future version and we also do support...
Quote from: KaosOverride on 21:44, 03 March 14
Maybe manufacturer don't know ever retromachine market exists, or just sees it as very small...
It's very small ! And extremely volatile ! No doubt about this. And this ask to much support time for the very few expected profit.
For example i am not sure if you could sell more than 250/500 units for CPC at the Gotek price: Sure that the price per hour of an developer to add the dsk support will eat the thin margin, even if the developer is chinese...
Got my SFRM72-FU-DL today!
With just my DSK=>IMG converter, the original 720k image compatible firmware and the last CPCDiskXP with the 254kb IBM formt hack, I have loaded games from the Gotek :)
But it's a pain to work with it. Fine when you have the image loaded but every time you power on you have to turn to image mode to load new image. But the mounted image is flashloaded on the Gotek, even with the USB plugged out it works...
For people who do not understand Spanish, the link jumps directly to minute 12:00 8)
Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRTNlZ76nJg#t=726
Quote from: Jeff_HxC2001 on 11:47, 09 March 14
... We are not yet ready to work for nothing Mr TFM ;) .
And no, i don't consider that the development costs is payed back since i constantly develop the firmware/software & future version and we also do support...
It's Dr TFM actually ;)
Mr Jeff: Nobody asks you to produce for nothing. However, IMHO it's relative expensive. The market will make the price and people will decide which product they will buy - totally independent of all forum discussions. I'm glad to hear that the development continues. I think you do a good job. :)
Well, the market has decided seeing how many units it has sold. And, the price may seem steep, but it's really not expensive for what it does. I've bought five units for myself and others, and like anyone who has one, can't recommend it enough...
Quote from: TFM on 16:59, 18 March 14
It's Dr TFM actually ;)
Mr Jeff: Nobody asks you to produce for nothing. However, IMHO it's relative expensive. The market will make the price and people will decide which product they will buy - totally independent of all forum discussions. I'm glad to hear that the development continues. I think you do a good job. :)
Some says that's too expensive while some others take 10 hxc at once... all is relative...
But what is going on here is good because this will make us to drop the "cheap" market (and probably the "retro" computer "market" too) to offer a better / more powerful product (in fact i will do what i thought 8 years ago before "the market" push me to reduce the bom cost...) ;D
Well, there is only the retro market. In these days no computer has a floppy disc any longer. ;)
Quote from: TFM on 16:33, 20 March 14
Well, there is only the retro market. In these days no computer has a floppy disc any longer. ;)
Mouaarff :laugh: .
Please visit the hxc showroom, i hope that you will understand ;) .
hervemessinger 20 mars 2014 à 13 h 22 min
Quote
Just be patient, the ST & CPC version are incoming ;) . The sources will be released once all is stable enough.
(Depending of my "real" life aganda, the ST version should be there in more or less a week and the cpc version will follow.)
:D
Yes! Great news!!!
Anyway it has been very fun to play with the original firmware to load IBM formats, and also one of the winners of this quest is the ability to save with USB floppy drives.
The scene wins one way or another :)
I'm too impatient to wait for his source release (and it bugs me that every one of these projects I've found has just a .hex and no source) so I'm writing my own anyway. Kudos to him regardless if he comes out with a CPC version like he says.
(...yeah, I just needed an excuse to break out my STM32 development kit and get hacking. I'm an embedded dev who isn't currently doing it as a day job, so I need to keep the practice up.)
The source will be released as HM says, but let him time to "clean" it. Sure we all have been in that situation sometime :laugh:
Then, anyone that can patch the source for new options or optimization will be wellcome, and you are used to SMT32, sure you will like to play with it ;)
.. TIC .. TAC .. TIC .. TAC.. ;D
(http://cortexamigafloppydrive.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/gotek_cpc_2.jpg?w=400)(http://cortexamigafloppydrive.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/gotek_cpc_1.jpg?w=400)
Quote from: H.M. on 22:27, 22 March 14
.. TIC .. TAC .. TIC .. TAC.. ;D
(http://cortexamigafloppydrive.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/gotek_cpc_2.jpg?w=400)(http://cortexamigafloppydrive.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/gotek_cpc_1.jpg?w=400)
SOOO COOOOL :D :D
Cant wait!
That's great H.M.!!!!
How is the state of the firmware?? Is suppose you are loading true .DSKs now. What about weird formats?
I must thank you your work, because of it I have been playing with the 720k version and learn many things of the IBM CPC format :)
Quote from: H.M. on 22:27, 22 March 14
.. TIC .. TAC .. TIC .. TAC.. ;D
Cut the red wire!!!! ... and let us try the bomb... with parados support :P
A good .DSK interpreter should not need to be done "PARADOS" specific. Sure will be PARADOS friendly ;)
And if not, then thanks to the source code released anyone can help :)
Still no confirmation that .DSK are read directly from the USB ?
There is no written confirmation, Kris, but it´s implicit that the DSKs are working, in other case the author would not have uploaded those screens to the forum, he must be fixing the last bugs before he feels that he can make available the first version.
There is a lot of info in the comments in his blog, but browse around near 400 comments is not easy, although he has answered every question put there. A week ago, their plans were publishing the ST version in a few days (if his real life let him enough time) and then center his efforts in the CPC version.
Of course, i´m sure that if the CPC community show more interest, we will get the CPC version sooner. Having more options available will be always a win and i´m sure that with this or the HxC + the future DDI-1 clones + the future RAM expansions will get more use of floppy and 128 KBs software.
I'm with SyX. There's no sense publishing a Gotek drive with no .DSK support. For DSK to PC-IMG conversion and use under Gotek 720ks drives you have my other method :P
I trust H.M. is already working with .DSK images, even at beta/alpha level or whatever...
Quote from: KaosOverride on 16:28, 30 March 14
I'm with SyX. There's no sense publishing a Gotek drive with no .DSK support. For DSK to PC-IMG conversion and use under Gotek 720ks drives you have my other method :P
I trust H.M. is already working with .DSK images, even at beta/alpha level or whatever...
This is what I do for a while but i'm tired with conerting .DSK to .IMG (even if it works very well ;) ).
THanks for the feedback, I will have a look at the HM blog now.
Come on, it will support DSK. :)
Question is,
where's the secret lab?
Atari ST first? With ST and MSA support
CPC of course!!
Dear gawd, who left the Marquee tag in here? :D
I do love the Day of the Tentacle reference, hehe! ;D
The "Still Raising" picture is already in the official blog with the text "Work in progress ;)" and in one of the last comments the author says the ST disk image selector program is done (except, of course, fixing the bugs that will be found) and he only needs to finish the write support in the firmware for the ST.
In the moment, the ST version is published, the countdown for the CPC version will start to run faster :)
I can't wait :)
1.05a on Amiga
Sounds good for our old CPCs :)
Can't wait, HxC is such a rip off and nowhere near the uk :(
Quote from: Neil79 on 02:04, 08 May 14
Can't wait, HxC is such a rip off and nowhere near the uk :(
LoL ! ! !
But wait what ?
The HxC can be found in uk. And anyway Lotharek is far nearer to you than these chinese resellers.
The HxC is supporting hundred of machines and formats without any firmware modification or hacking...
If you want something reliable and working since years and with a true support it's the way to go. :)
Here is an recent example of a CPC guy getting a working solution in less than a week:
http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=100&start=465#p25423 (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=100&start=465#p25423)
So for you 59 Euros is a rip off for such device and services ?
http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=114 (http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=114)
you want it for free maybe ?
HxC rulez since 2006 and that's all :P ;D
There is no point with these dumping devices... ( Dumping (pricing policy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_%28pricing_policy%29) )
Quote from: Neil79 on 02:04, 08 May 14
Can't wait, HxC is such a rip off and nowhere near the uk :(
You have absolutely no respect for the amount of work and dedication that has gone towards giving us a reliable, flexible, low cost replacement for our 8-bit computers with constant "live" support to the community. If you think that the few Euro difference makes the Chinese product a better choice, then you need to look at the entire picture and not just the price tag.
Bryce.
I have to agree with Bryce.
those HxC are expensive but it is a well known and reliable technology with a real support from the builder.
Those chinese plastic toyz on the other hand, we struggle to get them to work on old machines.
Also it is good to support European productions. :)
To equip a whole collection of many retromachines with HxC may be not financially suitable, but still to have one as external solution is great.
I agree with Bryce and DevilMarkus the HxC works well I am thinking of getting another in a case to use to save the drives on my cpcs getting worn out faster
Quote from: Bryce on 13:31, 08 May 14
You have absolutely no respect for the amount of work and dedication that ...
Well, I do agree with that. It's true for all hardware made with passion. Sadly the software side get's forgotten too often. Also the software side does deserve respect. An this is also true for everybody dedicating his / her spare time to the CPC f.e.
Quote from: TFM on 22:45, 08 May 14
Well, I do agree with that. It's true for all hardware made with passion. Sadly the software side get's forgotten too often. Also the software side does deserve respect. An this is also true for everybody dedicating his / her spare time to the CPC f.e.
Yes, in fact it's much worse for the software guys. The hardware guy has at least something physical to sell, which people then put an imaginary value on (usually and wrongly based on the price of a Chinese device that gets churned out of a factory in their thousands). For software then expect it to be free for some reason, despite the work that went into it.
This is also one of the reasons I release all my schematics. If you don't like the price, build it yourself. As many have done, but usually because they want to build something and not because of the price.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 08:56, 09 May 14
For software then expect it to be free for some reason, despite the work that went into it.
That's cos all software should be free 8)
(http://www.rabbimoffic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/revolution_Peter_Whitley.jpg)
Quote from: redbox on 09:48, 09 May 14
That's cos all software should be free 8)
And why exactly ? Please argument.
Today the software represent more than 80% of the work of such project...
Connecting stuffs on an MCU is quite easy... Make the whole thing working by software reliably is another story and can take an huge load of time...
How you will pay your developers ?
By donation ? :laugh: (reminder about the donations : OpenSSL, a library used by everyone today, got 2000$ per years... :-[ )
How do you expect to motivate any developer to do something interesting with such reasoning? (on any plateform...)
I've got to agree here. Consider the work that's gone into my CPC FPGA project that's been variously known as CPC2012, CPC2013, etc as it's been an ongoing project for several years now...
Despite never having done any electronics since I was about 10 (and that was pretty basic stuff), I've built 2 revisions of my FPGA board and apart from a few very minor things, each revision has worked pretty much perfectly. The first board took about 3 days to make the schematic and about 7 weeks to layout (!) although that was mostly because it was my first ever board layout. The second board took about 2 weeks to layout, and no doubt a future revision will be quicker still.
Despite that, the actual software to run on the chip took about 6 months for everything but the disk emulation, and I've been programming professionally for 2 decades, so I know my stuff. And what's more, the disk emulation was a real sod. I had something that was almost right, but it wasn't good enough, so I've started again a number of times. All told, I've spent about a year just on the disk emulation alone (and I'm about to start again as I'm still not happy with what's there). Even though I don't own one, I don't at all begrudge Jeff and Lotharek for charging for HxC because I know how much work that thing represents.
Already there have been a number of people asking if I can "just port my code" to some other FPGA random board (that I don't even own, as I only own 1 FPGA board that I haven't built myself and it's a very uncommon one) and of course, expecting that if I do, the code will be free.
So, yes, when I eventually sell my FPGA boards, the hardware will be most of the cost (because producing hardware on a small scale is expensive) and I'd only expect to get a small profit on each board, but actually despite it being a physical thing, the software is really where all the hard work is. This is the real reason the chinese cloners can turn stuff out so cheaply - if they can clone the device, getting the original software working on it is usually trivial.
But Jeff, the software is invisible, why should anyone pay for it? :D
@ralferoo (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=476): Despite you not having done electronics since you were 10, the schematic and layout are pretty good, especially for such a complicated PCB. I'm sure you learnt a lot and had fun doing it.
Bryce. (proud owner of 3 of Jeffs HxCs although I could have built them myself)
Quote from: Bryce on 12:54, 09 May 14
@ralferoo (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=476): Despite you not having done electronics since you were 10, the schematic and layout are pretty good, especially for such a complicated PCB. I'm sure you learnt a lot and had fun doing it.
Definitely, the learning was one of the main reasons for wanting to design my own board rather than just buying someone else's. Of course, there were other reasons too - I wanted joystick ports and SCART, and I didn't think any of the common FPGA boards at the time represented good value for money.
But yeah, making hardware is a lot of fun! :) ... and also incredibly frustrating sometimes trying to figure out why something isn't quite working! >:(
Quote from: Jeff_HxC2001 on 11:00, 09 May 14
And why exactly ? Please argument.
How you will pay your developers ?
By donation ? :laugh: (reminder about the donations : OpenSSL, a library used by everyone today, got 2000$ per years... :-[ )
How do you expect to motivate any developer to do something interesting with such reasoning? (on any plateform...)
You "pay" developers if you (and they) believe in a capitalistic model. If you don't, then they may do it simply for the advancement of intellect, sharing of knowledge etc. and this in turn becomes your motivation. And before anyone dismisses this, think of Open Source, Linux, the Internet... many people do write software for reasons other than financial gain.
But before you all flame me, I'm not supporting the either argument as I'm firmly on the fence and believe it's personal choice. I understand that if a project gets scaled up due to demand (like the HxC) then it might well become someone's livelihood and hey, they've got to live somewhere and eat which all costs money...!
However, it's always good to consider other ways of doing things and think outside the box a little bit :)
Quote from: ralferoo on 12:38, 09 May 14
I've got to agree here. Consider the work that's gone into my CPC FPGA project ...
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I can tell almost the same for some of my projects too.
Quote from: Bryce on 12:54, 09 May 14
But Jeff, the software is invisible, why should anyone pay for it? :D
But it's spirit & behaviour is visible isn't it ? ;)
Actually rather than cause a further argument, I'll just leave this here
Perhaps "rip off" was too harsh but It's just too expensive imo especially when you have to factor in everything else ( Shipping, connection cables etc )
Quote from: MacDeath on 14:06, 08 May 14those HxC are expensive but it is a well known and reliable technology with a real support from the builder.
:blank:
Quote from: redbox on 13:19, 09 May 14You "pay" developers if you (and they) believe in a capitalistic model. If you don't, then they may do it simply for the advancement of intellect, sharing of knowledge etc. and this in turn becomes your motivation. And before anyone dismisses this, think of Open Source, Linux, the Internet... many people do write software for reasons other than financial gain.
Well, it's a bit dated:
75% of Linux code now written by paid developers - APC (http://apcmag.com/linux-now-75-corporate.htm)
And once your motivation is lost, you're hoping for someone else to take up the project, or it will go the way of the dodo. That's not how Linux gained momentum and established itself.
That said, I'm not criticising the basic sentiment of yours.
Quote from: redbox on 13:19, 09 May 14
You "pay" developers if you (and they) believe in a capitalistic model. If you don't, then they may do it simply for the advancement of intellect, sharing of knowledge etc. and this in turn becomes your motivation.
advancement of intellect, sharing of knowledge... Nice but it is something eatable ? Can we lived only with this ?
Quote from: redbox on 13:19, 09 May 14
And before anyone dismisses this, think of Open Source, Linux, the Internet... many people do write software for reasons other than financial gain.
Linux, Internet, RPi & co : These projects was and are supported by big companies.
Finally few people are working on their own time :
http://gcn.com/Articles/2009/04/20/Linux-funding-sources.aspx (http://gcn.com/Articles/2009/04/20/Linux-funding-sources.aspx)
(In french)
Le libre n'est pas gratuit, il faut financer la R&D | Le Cercle Les Echos (http://lecercle.lesechos.fr/economie-societe/recherche-innovation/innovation/221182665/libre-nest-gratuit-faut-financer-rd)
And here is what happen when these companies doesn't do the funding correctly :
Tech giants, chastened by Heartbleed, finally agree to fund OpenSSL | Ars (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/tech-giants-chastened-by-heartbleed-finally-agree-to-fund-openssl/)
<<That's never been the case with OpenSSL, but the Linux Foundation wants to change that. The foundation today is announcing a three-year initiative with at least $3.9 million to help under-funded open source projects—with OpenSSL coming first. Amazon Web Services, Cisco, Dell, Facebook, Fujitsu, Google, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, NetApp, Qualcomm, Rackspace, and VMware have all pledged to commit at least $100,000 a year for at least three years to the "Core Infrastructure Initiative," Linux Foundation Executive Director Jim Zemlin told Ars.>>
Business models for open-source software - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_models_for_open_source_software)
Free software doesn't mean free of charge, and there is a lot of money in this story...
BTW : The HxC software sources are available on sourceforge since years now... :
HxC Floppy Drive Emulator | Free Development software downloads at (http://sourceforge.net/projects/hxcfloppyemu/)
Quote from: MaV on 14:10, 09 May 14
Well, it's a bit dated:
75% of Linux code now written by paid developers - APC (http://apcmag.com/linux-now-75-corporate.htm)
And once your motivation is lost, you're hoping for someone else to take up the project, or it will go the way of the dodo. That's not how Linux gained momentum and established itself.
That said, I'm not criticising the basic sentiment of yours.
+1
Quote from: Jeff_HxC2001 on 13:51, 09 May 14
But it's spirit & behaviour is visible isn't it ? ;)
No, I turned them off in the Config file :D
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 14:26, 09 May 14
No, I turned them off in the Config file :D
Bryce.
:laugh:
Quote from: Neil79 on 13:56, 09 May 14Perhaps "rip off" was too harsh but It's just too expensive imo especially when you have to factor in everything else ( Shipping, connection cables etc )
And this is why the product from China is produced so cheaply:
Cheap labor, inhuman labor conditions, environmental pollution (in China), mass production, mass shipment (across the world), unknown quality (likely to fail soon).
Plus some of the plastic are known to contain unhealthy doses of cancerogenes (the smelly chinese ones especially), you can bet that a cheap product will likely contain more of it.
Oh yes, and please do me the favour and try to contact your Chinese manufacturer once the device fails to ask for help.
For what its worth. My hxc was far from a rip off. And although I have since sold the Amiga 1200's that shared it with the cpcs it was still worth every cent. Excellent work HxC keep it up!
Quote from: Bryce on 08:56, 09 May 14
This is also one of the reasons I release all my schematics. If you don't like the price, build it yourself. As many have done, but usually because they want to build something and not because of the price.
Bryce.
Well, we all are on a very special planet. Not because there is some kind of life. It's because we all have the freedom of choice. :) We can freely decide if we buy a product or not... this decision is given to us and we are totally free in that. But bitching a "too high" prices is imho not good manners, if a price is too high then I just don't buy ;)
Quote from: redbox on 13:19, 09 May 14You "pay" developers if you (and they) believe in a capitalistic model.
Ok Redbox. Since I respect you for a variety of reasons, this will give me a hard time to not get misunderstood as being offensive. ;)
Well, if somebody pays my rent, my food, my JD, my clothes and my small thing in life I need, then please consider everything what I can program free. Thanks God I don't make my money as coder. If this would be the case I would either starve to death or get killed by people who are upset for paying $1 for my software. :laugh:
Seriously I appreciate your point of view, but if something shall be free, then EVERYTHING shall be free. Right?
In Germany we have a nice saying: If you are no communist at age of 18, you got no heart. And if you're still a communist at age 21, then you got no brain. ;)
I Have always seen that saying about being a communist or socialist patronising and condescending the same could be said for conservatives in a slightly different way it would still be patronising.
[ Potentially off topic, partially on topic! ]
It may come across as a patronising point of view, but it also raises a valid point. It's easy to be idealistic when you're young, and even more so when you're poor or a student then "everything should be free" (as in beer) is a wonderful POV. But as you start along your working life that view generally becomes less popular and people become more conservative (as in less socialist).
Sometimes, people see the value effort they put into their work and can empathise with the work others do and so think that the work they do is just as valuable, sometimes people are blind to work done outside of their industry and don't appreciate the hardware. However, I would say:
In my experience, people who think all software should free tend to be people who don't write software for a living.
In my experience, people who think it's OK to bittorrent films tend to be people who don't make films for a living.
In my experience, people who think it's OK to bittorrent TV tend to be people who don't make TV for a living.
etc...
It's especially easy to get into the mindset that because something can be distributed at zero cost that it cost nothing to make, more so when there are some people who are happy to give their things away for free, generally because they're doing it for fun.
It's also just a fact that people ascribe more value to a physical item than it's worth. You only have to look at the many, many Raspberry Pi cases on ebay that are selling for £5-£10. People will happily pay that because they're getting something physical, even though it's an "open source" design made by adafruit, laser cut (the time would maybe cost 50p at a hackspace) and less than £1 worth of vinyl (I paid about £8 for 10 pieces, enough for about 15 Pi cases). So, that's about 200% profit on each case for someone who just took someone else's open source work and bought a laser cutter. Almost everyone with a Raspberry Pi has a case. How many of those do you think paid for the license to use the GPU codec drivers? Sure, not everybody wants to do video on the Pi, but I bet if those drivers were included in the price everybody would be using them. I'm equally sure that if the unlock key wasn't tied to each cheap, it'd be widely pirated.
My response wasn't supposed to be a suggestion that a socialist or communist model was the solution - I was merely saying we all live in a capitalist society and hence tend to think that way automatically without considering any alternatives.
I am not of any polticial persuasion - as I said, I'm firmly on the fence and it's down to the individual to decide. I also said that I understand people need to eat, live etc and that the 'product' they develop could support this.
But to say "we can all be idealistic when young but we become realistic as we age" is just such a weak argument and is just a form or self affirmation and trying to convince yourself that what you're doing is okay without putting too much thought into it. Good sometimes to think of an alternative :)
offtopic too... sorry for that...
Students pay about $45.000 for each semester of Medicine (at Tulane, where I work), so I wouldn't consider them poor.
Thanks to all for sharing thoughts. It will help us to make the world a bit better and ever more fair. One day even for coders ;)
SO after lot of months passed, is this project definitely dead? (gotek firmware for cpc)
Well I think demand is quite low, the HXC kinda filled the market in the CPC world. Options are good, but IMHO the HxC is the better solution. So I'd choose the HxC as have many other people here.
Quote from: yurif74 on 16:35, 02 March 15
SO after lot of months passed, is this project definitely dead? (gotek firmware for cpc)
The gotek firmware is dead for the Amiga...for CPC didn't even started.
Anyway, the bootloader port is almost finished. I hope to give you more details soon. ;D
Quote from: Jeff_HxC2001 on 23:16, 04 March 15
Anyway, the bootloader port is almost finished. I hope to give you more details soon. ;D
New year, new luck?
You're on the wrong thread; Jeff released the Gotek HxC firmware half a year ago!
HxC2001 HeadQuarters : HxC Floppy Emulator (http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/index.html#download) under "USB Stick STM32 HxC Floppy Emulator (beta)".
Quote from: pelrun on 15:39, 02 January 16
wrong thread; Jeff released the Gotek HxC firmware half a year ago
Not "wrong thread" but the one that got it all started I guess. ;D So Gotek USB in a CPC6128 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/gotek-usb-in-a-cpc6128/msg95925/#msg95925) et seq. seems to continue this one...