Author Topic: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC  (Read 44578 times)

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Offline chinnyhill10

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #75 on: 23:00, 03 December 15 »

Indeed! Only down side can't find my bloody GX 4000 scart lead  :picard:




How can you not have 50 SCART leads in your house. Did you not live through the 90's?  :D
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Offline Neil79

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #76 on: 23:05, 03 December 15 »

How can you not have 50 SCART leads in your house. Did you not live through the 90's?  :D


I moved..


Alot  :laugh:
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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #77 on: 23:12, 03 December 15 »



I moved..


Alot  [emoji23]

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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #78 on: 13:21, 09 February 16 »
Sorry to open this up again. My C4CPC has arrived, I have my GX4000 and 6128 Plus.


My plan is to do the following:


Connect my 6128 Plus directly into the original Amstrad colour monitor it came with, and connect the C4CPC, will this work?


Connect my GX4000 to my big Samsung Telly, using no additional kit, other than the SCART and PSU that came bundled with the GX4000, attach the C4CPC, will this work?


Connect my GX4000 to my Amstrad colour monitor and connect the C4CPC, will this work?


Sorry, but I have a terrible track record of GX4000's blowing up on me, thanks in advance.


 




Offline gerald

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #79 on: 13:38, 09 February 16 »
Connect my 6128 Plus directly into the original Amstrad colour monitor it came with, and connect the C4CPC, will this work?
Yes

Connect my GX4000 to my big Samsung Telly, using no additional kit, other than the SCART and PSU that came bundled with the GX4000, attach the C4CPC, will this work?
It should, but for how long  ??? A new power supply should be better.

Connect my GX4000 to my Amstrad colour monitor and connect the C4CPC, will this work?
Yes


Sorry, but I have a terrible track record of GX4000's blowing up on me, thanks in advance. 
I would be interested in knowing the blowing condition  :)

Offline ukmarkh

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #80 on: 13:51, 09 February 16 »
I would be interested in knowing the blowing condition  :)


I've bought several GX4000's over the years, and for some unknown reason, I plug them into the mains, as I've done with all my other GX4000's and the PSU gives off a burning smell, and the PSU is dead.


The GX4000 is still fine, as I just use my other working PSU's.


What PSU would you recommend for plugging in the C4CPC>GX4000>TV setup, and is it true that the C4CPC will be damaged if you use the original Amstrad PSU that comes with it, as I've built up quite a few over the years, and it's a shame I can't just use those.     

Offline gerald

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #81 on: 14:16, 09 February 16 »
I've bought several GX4000's over the years, and for some unknown reason, I plug them into the mains, as I've done with all my other GX4000's and the PSU gives off a burning smell, and the PSU is dead.


The GX4000 is still fine, as I just use my other working PSU's.
Ok, only the PSU failed.
What PSU would you recommend for plugging in the C4CPC>GX4000>TV setup, and is it true that the C4CPC will be damaged if you use the original Amstrad PSU that comes with it, as I've built up quite a few over the years, and it's a shame I can't just use those.   
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/%28please-read%29-gx4000-with-original-power-brick-and-c4cpc/msg100199/#msg100199

You can also get a arduino compatible one (9V 5.5/2.1 mm, positive on center pole)

Offline chinnyhill10

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #82 on: 15:26, 09 February 16 »

I've bought several GX4000's over the years, and for some unknown reason, I plug them into the mains, as I've done with all my other GX4000's and the PSU gives off a burning smell, and the PSU is dead.




It is not "some unknown reason". The PSU's are trash. We widely shout about this on this forum and yet people still insist on using them.


If you are using an original GX4000 PSU then its not a question of IF it will fail, but WHEN. Be thankful it didn't take the console with it.
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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #83 on: 17:41, 09 February 16 »
I see! I've never come across a dead GX4000 console, I've bought several from rain drenched car boot stalls, innards nested with spiders and it still works. I've had PSU's blow, but never damage the GX, maybe it's because I plug all of my devices into surge protectors.


This is me agreeing by the way, the GX4000 and the NES PSU's are crap.

Offline TFM

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #84 on: 20:46, 11 February 16 »
I see! I've never come across a dead GX4000 console, I've bought several from rain drenched car boot stalls, innards nested with spiders and it still works. I've had PSU's blow, but never damage the GX, maybe it's because I plug all of my devices into surge protectors.

This is me agreeing by the way, the GX4000 and the NES PSU's are crap.


Good to read that not every PSU blow will kill the GX actually.  :)
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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #85 on: 17:19, 12 February 16 »
I'm not stating that it can't happen, but I think people tend to be overly cautious about these things.


The first electrical job I ever had was repairing monitors and PCB components. The first thing you notice on day one, is that everyone is wearing anti-static wrist bands, earthed to the desk. but if you ask 'em why, they don't fully understand, but often say "it's the build up of static from the human body, it will zap the chip if we don't wear it". I later read that today's (This was in 1995) Microchips are built to be protected from ESD, but the problem is bigger, we shouldn't call it "static," we should call it "charge imbalance". Just having charged particles is not enough to damage a chip, but Anti-Static wrist bands are worn as a belt braces style approach. Like an insurance policy.


I think because earlier microchips were probably more susceptible, the human brain can't move on, and trust that ESD is perhaps a thing of the past. It's the same with compressing files on a disk, within windows, everyone is like "Don't do that, the machine will run like a dog". Yes, that's is probably correct, if running on a Pentium 75, but with today's technology and i5 or i7 CPU's and Solid state drives, that's complete BS!


     

Offline TFM

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #86 on: 19:02, 12 February 16 »
Well, touching the surface of a "just" switched on CRT and a chip with the other hand at the same time, that will give one a 100% chance for the chip to die. If it's "just" the joystick port one touches, then even the circuit paths will roll up. [nb]I tell this from early years experience.[/nb]. So being careful is for sure a good thing. However, I'm really curious how much % of the GX4000 actually died when their original PSU broke, it seems the percentage is pretty high, but not 100%. Well, I guess I better be careful and get a nice PSU ahead of time.  :)
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Offline Bryce

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #87 on: 23:14, 12 February 16 »
The anti-static band is still needed today. It's not some myth from the past. Chips are still static sensitive, but the chances of it happening are much lower than many may think. You could work without the band for many years without  a problem, but commercial production and repair will still insist on using them, because if you do zap a chip, you only find out when the device is already built/repaired and by then you have wasted time/money/resources for nothing or if the IC you are working with costs a few hundred or even thousand Euros, then you don't want to take any chances. If a €5 band can save you hours or 100's of euros, then why wouldn't you use it. Today other less obvious steps are also taken, such as anti-static flooring, anti-static furniture etc that makes the band less important.
I still earth myself through a band for most work that involves particularly sensitive or expensive parts, but once the parts are soldered to a PCB they are much less likely to be damaged by static anyway.

The problem with the GX PSU couldn't be a static problem. Most likely the PSU just spiked to a much higher voltage when it died. C64 PSUs are famous for doing this.

Bryce.
« Last Edit: 23:16, 12 February 16 by Bryce »

Offline TFM

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #88 on: 23:29, 12 February 16 »
Instead of a wrist band (do this only if you don't have one!) it also helps to put one hand on a water pipe or heating unit (water heating). Because both are supposed to be "earthed".  :)
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Offline Bryce

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #89 on: 23:38, 12 February 16 »
Instead of a wrist band (do this only if you don't have one!) it also helps to put one hand on a water pipe or heating unit (water heating). Because both are supposed to be "earthed".  :)

But, but.... I only have two hands. One for the soldering iron and the other for my glass of whisky :)

Bryce.

Offline TFM

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #90 on: 23:55, 12 February 16 »
Yes, well, you need a switch mode hand then...  :-X :-X :-X
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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #91 on: 18:41, 17 February 16 »
Like I said, the wrist band is like an insurance policy. I've seen companies with anti-static floors, furniture and wrist bands... Clueless!


Anyway, messing around with old retro tat, I think I'll give the wrist band a miss  :D 

Offline Bryce

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #92 on: 22:33, 17 February 16 »
Like I said, the wrist band is like an insurance policy. I've seen companies with anti-static floors, furniture and wrist bands... Clueless!

Why is that clueless? If the engineer is handling some stupidly expensive part, then he should be wearing a band even if the entire lab is anti-static. He only needs to be wearing the wrong t-shirt to destroy that component in his hand.

Bryce.

Offline ukmarkh

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #93 on: 23:46, 17 February 16 »
Why is that clueless? If the engineer is handling some stupidly expensive part, then he should be wearing a band even if the entire lab is anti-static. He only needs to be wearing the wrong t-shirt to destroy that component in his hand.

Bryce.


Please see my earlier post about such things.

Offline Bryce

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #94 on: 00:06, 18 February 16 »

Please see my earlier post about such things.

I did, but you are underestimating the issue. There is nothing clueless about using anti-static bands, they are still very much a requirement if you want to protect your product properly. Even with all the anti-static furniture etc, a person can still be holding a substantial charge that could fry his prototype. Having the furniture etc is pointless if you ignore a potential source of charge. It's like double locking the front door and leaving the back door open.

Bryce.

Offline ukmarkh

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #95 on: 00:15, 18 February 16 »
I'd need to see proof of such a claim. It reminds me when Curry's the electrical store were claiming their Gold HDMI cables were superior to normal cables... When it is just data, 1's and 0's. 

Offline Bryce

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #96 on: 10:26, 18 February 16 »
Ok, then let me explain it further. Everything has a charge. As you know, when the charge between two objects is large enough, you will feel and even see the discharge between two objects. Now imagine you walk into a room where everything is at the same potential, but you are charged to a different potential. You go to pick up a component from an earthed desk and bam, you just discharged through that component and it's now only good for the bin. The room is anti-static, but you brought the charge with you.

One thing that many people seem to get confused about is the different types of protection, mainly because they all get called "anti-static". There are three main types of protection. The first is "anti-static" such as the carpet. This material won't discharge you!, it only avoids a charge from building up due to it's material. Then there is "dissipative anti-static" such as the green mats we use on the work surface. These will discharge you (without the ow! effect) and anthing put on them because they have a high-impedance path to ground, just like the arm band (there's a 10M resistor in that yellow telephone cord). The third is anti-static shielding, such as those metalic silver bags that electronics are delivered in. These will not let a charge go through them so that they protect the device (the pink bags are only anti-static like the carpet, not a shield).

So without the band, you are still carrying a charge around with you. Touching the work surface will discharge you and you will stay (mainly) discharged if the room has the right carpet etc. However, touching anything (including another person) before you are grounded, even in the best anti-static room can still cause issues. Or even worse, someone walks in and touches you, then they've "recharged" you even though you had discharged yourself before. Having the band ensures that you are always discharged before you touch the device.

This is not third-hand information or internet wisdom, I have worked most of my life in anti-static environments and seen devices die due to the lack of proper anti-static policies. In fact I'm sitting in one of those rooms right now as I type this :)

Bryce.
« Last Edit: 10:30, 18 February 16 by Bryce »

Offline ukmarkh

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #97 on: 11:31, 18 February 16 »
That doesn't prove anything, and what proof have you that the human body can produce enough charge imbalance to damage an IC?


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Offline Bryce

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #98 on: 11:53, 18 February 16 »
Ah, you are questioning whether it's possible at all?? Well that's pretty easy to measure with an electrometer, but even without fancy equipment, you can estimate it using Paschen's Law. To get a spark at all you need around 500V. From experience I can tell you that the less painful sparks are around 3000V and the real "whacks" that you feel can be north of 20KV.
Considering that the components in question are made for 5V or less and rarely withstand anything above 9V, that discharge will definitely fry the part if the shortest route is through the component.

Bryce.

Offline gerald

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Re: [PLEASE READ] GX4000 with original power brick and C4CPC
« Reply #99 on: 11:58, 18 February 16 »
That doesn't prove anything, and what proof have you that the human body can produce enough charge imbalance to damage an IC?
What king of proof do you expect ? I mean, what is your level of understanding on what happen within a IC when exposed to ESD.
Not having fried an IC in your life does not mean you will never do it in the future.