Author Topic: 2xYM2149  (Read 10157 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline arnoldemu

  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 5.336
  • Country: gb
    • Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource
  • Liked: 2274
  • Likes Given: 3478
2xYM2149
« on: 16:10, 25 May 10 »
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29716

So... I would like 6 channel sound from my cpc ;)
My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

Offline Bryce

  • The Hardware Guy.
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 11.674
  • Country: wf
  • It's not broken, it just hasn't been fixed yet.
    • index.php?action=treasury
  • Liked: 4188
  • Likes Given: 439
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #1 on: 16:19, 25 May 10 »
Do you have two spare YM2149 Chips? Or even 2x AY-8912 lying about?

Bryce.

Offline Gryzor

  • Administrator
  • 6128 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 15.843
  • Country: gr
  • CPC-Wiki maintainer
    • CPCWiki
  • Liked: 3365
  • Likes Given: 6026
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #2 on: 17:46, 25 May 10 »
Cannibalise other systems?

Offline Bryce

  • The Hardware Guy.
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 11.674
  • Country: wf
  • It's not broken, it just hasn't been fixed yet.
    • index.php?action=treasury
  • Liked: 4188
  • Likes Given: 439
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #3 on: 20:24, 25 May 10 »
Anything old enough to have used a YM2149 or even an AY-8912 is retro as far as I'm concerned, and I'd have a real problem tearing it apart for one chip (which may die during the attempt anyway). I only ever empty a retro system, if it's not save-able due to massive damage or similar electronic problems. That said....

Warning the next comment could get me banned from the CPC Forum forever....

... I do have two SID chips here, and I've been playing around with the idea of building a SID based CPC Soundcard.

Pllleeeeaaaasssseee don't ban me, I wont do it again, I promise :D

Bryce.

Offline Leonie

  • CPC6128
  • ****
  • Posts: 232
  • Country: de
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #4 on: 20:50, 25 May 10 »
... I do have two SID chips here, and I've been playing around with the idea of building a SID based CPC Soundcard.

>:( YOU WILL BE SORRY FOR THAT!  >:(
 
 

FOR SURE!
I´ll make you pay for that!
You´ll die tomorrow, ten o´clock.
I´ll eat your foul meat!  :(
 
 
« Last Edit: 20:53, 25 May 10 by Leonie »

Offline Devilmarkus

  • Vivid source of indefiniteness
  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 4.035
  • Country: de
  • WebCPC / JavaCPC developer
    • index.php?action=treasury
    • CPC-Live website
  • Liked: 1015
  • Likes Given: 926
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #5 on: 20:55, 25 May 10 »
... I do have two SID chips here, and I've been playing around with the idea of building a SID based CPC Soundcard.

Great idea! 2 SID are much better. So you could do stereo output :)
Or a mixage of AY and SID together?
Indeed this sounds interesting!

(Who the fuck is Leonie?)
When you put your ear on a hot stove, you can smell how stupid you are ...

Amstrad CPC games in your webbrowser

JavaCPC Desktop Full Release

Offline fano

  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 835
  • Country: fr
  • Easter Egg Programmer
    • Easter Egg
  • Liked: 278
  • Likes Given: 612
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #6 on: 21:46, 25 May 10 »
... I do have two SID chips here, and I've been playing around with the idea of building a SID based CPC Soundcard.
OMFG ! burn them !
"NOP" is the perfect program : short , fast and (known) bug free

Follow Easter Egg products on Facebook !

Offline mr_lou

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 3.093
  • Country: dk
    • index.php?action=treasury
    • 8-bit Memoirs - a Blu-ray diskmag-like eBook about the 8-bit era
  • Liked: 1262
  • Likes Given: 2510
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #7 on: 22:04, 25 May 10 »
Personally I don't see the idea of building advanced soundcards for the CPC. I don't think anyone will ever buy them.

That's why I'm intrigued by the Digiblaster. It seems to be a fair solution for the CPC, and one that everyone can afford or even make themselves. I vote that everyone should invest in a Digiblaster, and hence forth more games and demos could have sampled music.  8)

Offline Leonie

  • CPC6128
  • ****
  • Posts: 232
  • Country: de
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #8 on: 22:08, 25 May 10 »
Who the fuck is Leonie?

Your future cause of death.  >:(

Offline Bryce

  • The Hardware Guy.
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 11.674
  • Country: wf
  • It's not broken, it just hasn't been fixed yet.
    • index.php?action=treasury
  • Liked: 4188
  • Likes Given: 439
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #9 on: 12:26, 26 May 10 »
Ok, it's already 11:30 here, 10 o'clock has come and gone and I'm still here. So Leonies death threats aren't to be taken seriously. She didn't even eat my meat as promised :D

Anyway, firstly, I didn't intend the SID Soundcard to be a major project for release, I just thought I'd try it out for the fun of it (but if anyone wanted to build it, they could of course have the plans) and secondly, the SID is/was a serious sound chip which had capabilities way more advanced than a digiblaster could offer. But I can still build a few digiblasters if anyone is interested.

Bryce.

Btw Markus, I hadn't intended making a dual SID card, just a single SID would have been enough.

Offline MacDeath

  • Chaotic post writer and mock-up specialist
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 4.060
  • Country: fr
  • Liked: 1167
  • Likes Given: 649
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #10 on: 14:37, 26 May 10 »
I think it may be better to simply mix 2 CPC/PLUS...
Getting them working like some sort of duo-core computer, synchronised by a common Real-time clock or whatever, and perhaps sharing a common extended RAM banks pool (with a mechanism so you don't have both computers messing with the same bank at the same time.) and perhaps a direct channel too so each CPU can give order to the other or channel Datas or whatever...


But the BankSwitching in a common pool may be great.
need some delay of course because you must per exemple wait the CPU1 write on it, the close it to it and open it to the CPU2...But such a delay may be transcended by the fact you then give a whole 16K or Datas/codes or whatever.

So such thing would need the 2 sound outputs to be put on a common mix...ginving 2x3 stereo channels (and even some DMA if you use some PLUS.


It's an old dream of mine, doing such a dual-core CPC (or PLUS)...


PS : I love it when Leonie 's gone wild, berzerker fury style...

Offline Bryce

  • The Hardware Guy.
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 11.674
  • Country: wf
  • It's not broken, it just hasn't been fixed yet.
    • index.php?action=treasury
  • Liked: 4188
  • Likes Given: 439
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #11 on: 15:05, 26 May 10 »
Woooaaaa, a dual CPU system based on z80s would be a hardware nightmare. The amount of handshaking required to keep them in sync, not to mention all the firmware / software checks and balances would more or less negate the speed advantages of having two CPUs.

The easy version would be: 1 CPC for Gameplay / graphics and 1 CPC for sampled music / effects. With a few hardware handshakes to let the sound CPC know what music / effect it should be playing. You could put it all in one box of course, to make it appear as one computer :)

Bryce.

Offline Octoate

  • CPC6128
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
  • Country: de
    • Octoate.de
  • Liked: 62
  • Likes Given: 326
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #12 on: 15:08, 26 May 10 »
In the CPCAI I found a hardware project on how to connect a SID chip to the CPC, but I guess it never worked correctly (or was it the self-built speech synthesizer!?). In another book I found a schematic on how to connect a second AY to the CPC. Maybe the schematics could be useful for your project?!
Btw, for a AY replacement you can use the VHDL description from FPGAArcade and for SID emulation you can use the pin compatible SwinSID emulator (based on a microcontroller).

@Bryce: At least I am always interested in hardware, so you can count me in - at least I will build the device, too :).
--

Offline Bryce

  • The Hardware Guy.
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 11.674
  • Country: wf
  • It's not broken, it just hasn't been fixed yet.
    • index.php?action=treasury
  • Liked: 4188
  • Likes Given: 439
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #13 on: 15:29, 26 May 10 »
The SID idea was really just messing about. The more serious projects at the moment are 1) Low-cost interface for SDCard storage  2) Dktronics Speech synth without an SPO256. When I've finished them, I'll get around to playing with the SID.

Adding a second AY to a CPC shouldn't be difficult, but not many people have a spare AY to use?

But thanks for the encouragement, there'll be more projects to come. So keep the "iron" hot :)

Bryce.
« Last Edit: 15:31, 26 May 10 by Bryce »

Offline Leonie

  • CPC6128
  • ****
  • Posts: 232
  • Country: de
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #14 on: 16:07, 26 May 10 »
Ok, it's already 11:30 here, 10 o'clock has come and gone and I'm still here.
So Leonies death threats aren't to be taken seriously.
She didn't even eat my meat as promised.

My flight has been canceled.  :'(
 
 

Offline Devilmarkus

  • Vivid source of indefiniteness
  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 4.035
  • Country: de
  • WebCPC / JavaCPC developer
    • index.php?action=treasury
    • CPC-Live website
  • Liked: 1015
  • Likes Given: 926
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #15 on: 16:20, 26 May 10 »
My flight has been canceled.  :'(

Don't forget: we are m.e.n.
(masculine engineering noobs)
When you put your ear on a hot stove, you can smell how stupid you are ...

Amstrad CPC games in your webbrowser

JavaCPC Desktop Full Release

Offline Bryce

  • The Hardware Guy.
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 11.674
  • Country: wf
  • It's not broken, it just hasn't been fixed yet.
    • index.php?action=treasury
  • Liked: 4188
  • Likes Given: 439
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #16 on: 16:45, 26 May 10 »
Take the train, we're in the same country :D

Bryce.

Offline MacDeath

  • Chaotic post writer and mock-up specialist
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 4.060
  • Country: fr
  • Liked: 1167
  • Likes Given: 649
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #17 on: 19:04, 26 May 10 »
Quote
http://www.seekic.com/newstock/AY-3-8910_A,AY-3-8910A,AY38910A_P.html
Seem that some stocks of AY chips still exist.

Also FPGA can emulate AY/YM if wikipedia is right.

Offline Leonie

  • CPC6128
  • ****
  • Posts: 232
  • Country: de
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #18 on: 19:22, 26 May 10 »
Cannibalise other systems?

Each Atari ST delivers one AY/YM...

Offline MacDeath

  • Chaotic post writer and mock-up specialist
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 4.060
  • Country: fr
  • Liked: 1167
  • Likes Given: 649
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #19 on: 19:55, 26 May 10 »
Then cannibilize some Amstrad's Speccies... you may also cannibilize a second Z80... or some memory Chips...

Offline Gryzor

  • Administrator
  • 6128 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 15.843
  • Country: gr
  • CPC-Wiki maintainer
    • CPCWiki
  • Liked: 3365
  • Likes Given: 6026
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #20 on: 09:33, 27 May 10 »

Each Atari ST delivers one AY/YM...

Don't you touch those sexy STs...

Offline arnoldemu

  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 5.336
  • Country: gb
    • Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource
  • Liked: 2274
  • Likes Given: 3478
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #21 on: 11:38, 27 May 10 »
Then cannibilize some Amstrad's Speccies... you may also cannibilize a second Z80... or some memory Chips...
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27909&highlight=emulation

An alternative?

so can the cpc booster be reprogrammed as a second AY???? Hmmm...
My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

Offline MacDeath

  • Chaotic post writer and mock-up specialist
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 4.060
  • Country: fr
  • Liked: 1167
  • Likes Given: 649
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #22 on: 15:57, 27 May 10 »
Yeah, using the CPC as a Graphic card and adding another Core to do the soun ds and some stuff was what I thought about...
And yeah the problem would be that the duo could be so hard to manage that it would negate the gain, but this would allow too more complex stuff to be managed.

The Sega Megadrive was equipped with a Z80 as a Soundcard, its only job was to manage the sound processor, and also to be used in SegaMasterSystem emulation.

The problem with an amstrad, the Z80 is still struggling to do all the stuff : Graphics, Sounds and the rest...
So if you even add another AY/YM...You would simply be unable to do anything...unless you switch off the video of something like this.
You'll also need at least a 256K RAM computer perhaps.


The point is : if you add another AY/YM, you would probably have to put some sort of co-processor.

Perhaps DMA and VRAM/specific RAM with no need to really pass through the Z80 or only with some simple orders...

I've heard conserning the PLUS that if Amstrad bought/put some specific VRAM, the Video RAM could have been freed from the Z80 as in a MSX but I suppose this need a bit of extra wiring/hardware too ?

Can such features be added in Extension port ? or are we definitly screwed up ?


Also do you know where I can found a book related to those Extensions design on CPC ?

http://cpcrulez.fr/hardwareBOOK_montages_extension_peripheriques_du_CPC_00.htm

this one (in french of course) seem to be the only one I've seen, and it seems uncomplete at CPCrulez...)
« Last Edit: 16:04, 27 May 10 by MacDeath »

Offline Bryce

  • The Hardware Guy.
  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 11.674
  • Country: wf
  • It's not broken, it just hasn't been fixed yet.
    • index.php?action=treasury
  • Liked: 4188
  • Likes Given: 439
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #23 on: 16:27, 27 May 10 »
Adding an extra AY shouldn't overload the CPU that much. Much less than say a Digiblaster.

The expansion port on the CPC doesn't allow any direct manipulation of the internal memory or mapping , so no, I doubt any extension will give you what you need. Adding dedicated VRAM would be almost re-designing the entire architecture and end up with a completely new - non-CPC-compatible 8-Bit computer.

I haven't seen that Book before. Is someone scanning in the rest, or is that all that's available?
There is a very similar book in German, but it doesn't really teach you any amazing CPC tricks, it's more of a "basics of logic guide" (It may even be the same content, just in German).

Bryce.


Offline Octoate

  • CPC6128
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
  • Country: de
    • Octoate.de
  • Liked: 62
  • Likes Given: 326
Re: 2xYM2149
« Reply #24 on: 17:05, 27 May 10 »
This seems to be a translation of the german book "CPC-464 Hardware-Erweiterungen" by "Data Becker". I understand that they stopped the web conversion of the book, because it is very huge :). Some of those hardware extensions reappeared in the german book "Maschinenspracheprogramme und Hardware-Erweiterungen für den Amstrad CPC".

Btw, it was chapter 18 where they showed how to add a second AY to your CPC...
--