Amiga- Atari St mouse adapter for 9pin Joystick port!

[ikonsgr]

  This was a project i've made some years ago  using descrete logic chips resulting  in a circuit... not so easy to implement     The circuit allows an amiga or atari st mouse to be used instead of a joystick, and it behaves exactly like  typical joystick. So any game/utility that use joystick can use the mouse instead!
Lately,i've started dealing with pic microcontrollers (in essence a "computer in a chip") so i've managed to redesign the circuit using only a small 16F630 pic chip!
The circuit looks like this. As you can see, it's very easy to make, there is only the pic mcu, a small 100nF capacitor, and two 3pin switches (or one 6pin switch) which are used to select the use of amiga or atari st mouse. Of course you will also need the .hex file that contains the program i made for the microcontroller, which you can find here . You can use a cheap pic programmer like this or a pickit2/3, to flash the program into the microcontroller.
Adapter supports  amiga, atari st mouse and 2nd fire button. I've tried it with artstudio and symbos and works very nice! You can also use it with all games that support joystick and play them with a mouse instead of joystick! And this is the prototype i made for testing.

Note also, that  this is a special version for amstrad cpc that doesn't provide the neccessary 5volt supply from joystick port directly, so an external 5volt power supply is needed. I've also designed this version, that works on all other 8bit computers that provide a standard 9pin Joystick port like C64,VIC20,Atari 8bit models!

[DanyPPC]

I'd like to use an Amiga mouse on Commodore 64 because i have a neos mouse which don't works.


Are there games which require mouse on CPC ?
And which standard does the adapter support in Commodore 64 (Neos or standard 1531 Commodore) ?

[ikonsgr]

  In theory, all games can be played with mouse instead of joystick. In practice,i believe that mouse is better than joystick with:

- Games that use a target (like prohibition, cabal, op.wolf etc)
- Blockbusters (like arkanoid and various clones) are better played with mouse.
- Any utility/game that use a pointer.

Also many arcade/shoot'em up games can be played equally pleasent with mouse instead of joystick (it's a unique experience to play 1943, flying shark, zynaps using a mouse). In 2 words, any game can be played with mouse except of some games, that need a constant move to one direction (for instance some side scrolling beat'em'ups like renegade/target renegade)
Of course all utilities/programs using a pointer (like art sudio or symbos) are much better controlled with a mouse.
The adapter gives the standard atari joy port signals (it behaves exactly like using a joystick, but instead you use a mouse), so using it with a Commodore 64/128, you can play any game supporting a joystick with the mouse!

[DanyPPC]

Ok, but from what i understand your adapter is only a joystick replacement, and it doesn't act like a real mouse.
Is it right ?

[khaz]

Can it work with PC serial mice?

[ikonsgr]

Ok, but from what i understand your adapter is only a joystick replacement,

Yes, exactly.

, and it doesn't act like a real mouse.

What exactly do you mean "act like real mouse"?   Since Commodore 64 ( in fact, all  8bit home micros of the era) was NOT equipped with mouse ports ,but only with joystick ports, the only way you could use a mouse directly  with most games/utilities, is to "disguise" it as a joystick!    Of course there were some rare exceptions, for example the amx mouse for amstrad cpc, which acted "like a real mouse" as you said, but in order  to do this, special software drivers needed, and only a few utilities could actually utilize it! Mind that computing power of the 8bit home micros was so small, that consuming a great deal of cpu power, just to make a software interface to utilize a real mouse, made it practically impossible to use it with any demanding "real time" application, like most games of that era was! 

And even if you design some add-on hardware for real mouse,(in order to "relief" the cpu from the need of software driver for it), what portion of software would utilize it?
So, in 2 words, the only direct and viable way to use a mouse with the vast majority of the existing software is, to make mouse "act like joystick"!

[ikonsgr]

Can it work with PC serial mice?

Unfortunately no. Serial mice,might look the same because of the same 9pin D connector used, but it has completely different  signals than of amiga/atari st mouse.

[DanyPPC]

Ok, now everything is clear,
thanks for your precious explanation

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

I have a TOM mouse adaptor for my Amiga. Allows me to use modern USB mice or joysticks on the Amiga.


I see no reason why it cannot work on a CPC for the Joystick function at least, as the Amiga joystick support was exactly the same. I doubt it would work for mice.

[Bryce]

I have a TOM mouse adaptor for my Amiga. Allows me to use modern USB mice or joysticks on the Amiga.


I see no reason why it cannot work on a CPC for the Joystick function at least, as the Amiga joystick support was exactly the same. I doubt it would work for mice.

It probably would work for joysticks, but you'd have to add a 5V supply and GND, because the Amiga adapter is taking the 5V from the port (which the CPC port doesn't have).

Bryce.

[ikonsgr]

I have a TOM mouse adaptor for my Amiga. Allows me to use modern USB mice or joysticks on the Amiga.
I see no reason why it cannot work on a CPC for the Joystick function at least, as the Amiga joystick support was exactly the same. I doubt it would work for mice.

   Tom adapter will not work directly on amstrad cpc, for either usb joy or mouse, because of the reasons bryce explained.
BUT, since the adapter i made, provides the required 5volt to the 9pin connector (in order for amiga/atari st mouse to function) , i'm pretty sure thatif you plug the tom adapter to my adapter, then you will be able to use a usb mouse as "joystick" on amstrad cpc! 
   

[Skunkfish]

i'm pretty sure thatif you plug the tom adapter to my adapter, then you will be able to use a usb mouse as "joystick" on amstrad cpc! 

I was also thinking that must be possible. There's a cheaper version of the TOM2 called JERRY, which just supports mice (~£15).

I wonder how the performance of that combined with the adapter would compare with Bryce's USB mouse adapter?

[Bryce]

   Tom adapter will not work directly on amstrad cpc, for either usb joy or mouse, because of the reasons bryce explained.
BUT, since the adapter i made, provides the required 5volt to the 9pin connector (in order for amiga/atari st mouse to function) , i'm pretty sure thatif you plug the tom adapter to my adapter, then you will be able to use a usb mouse as "joystick" on amstrad cpc! 

Unlikely. The Amiga has analogue inputs for mouse control, it doesn't convert the mouse movement to joystick directions like the CPC does.

Bryce.

[ZbyniuR]

Analog signal for mouse are in Apple II and BBC Micro, but Amiga have only one difference compare to Atari ST, swap pins 2 and 3. Some mouse had switch for this.

[ikonsgr]

Unlikely. The Amiga has analogue inputs for mouse control, it doesn't convert the mouse movement to joystick directions like the CPC does.
Bryce.

Yes, but the conversion you say, will be made by my adapter!
The scheme would be something like this:

Amstrad cpc joyport<=amiga mouse adapter<=tom adapter

First the TOM adapter will convert the usb signal to amiga mouse analogue output pulses. This output will feed my adapter (where the amiga mouse pulses is exactly what it's expecting as input) and convert them to joystick movement!