3d on CPC

Started by GUNHED, 20:00, 31 May 22

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GUNHED

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Bryce

Electrically probably yes, but you would need to be able to create around 50fps screens for it to work properly.

Bryce.

GUNHED

#2
Quote from: Bryce on 20:39, 31 May 22Electrically probably yes, but you would need to be able to create around 50fps screens for it to work properly.

Bryce.
50 fps screens are no problem (with our Giana Clone this even works with 32 KB V-RAM). Here we would use two 16 KB VRAM screens and switch them according to the glasses. This way 50 fps wouldn't even be needed :-)

But we would need to trigger the glasses somehow.

The PlayCity can synchronize it's interrupt with the screen.

In the case of the 3D glasses we would need a tigger: Maybe just the interrupt at frame-fly back.
Or the CPC needs to be able to send a trigger signal to the glasses, the CPC can check at every 1/300 s interrupt if the frame-flayback bit is set and then send the trigger to the glasses.

This could be done via printer port for example. But I'm sure you may have a better idea.

Would love to create a working proto-type - since these glasses are available for charp.

Also there may be better hardware out there (better to connect to the CPC) which I don't know.
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Prodatron

Giana is just simple 2D, it doesn't matter if it has 16, 32 or 64K or whatever vram at all.
For 3D you need two screens at 50Hz which are NEARLY the same but differ a little bit in case of the deepness.
A CPC could maybe achieve this by plotting preloaded small bitmaps or very simple line objects, which then have to run at 50Hz which is hard to achieve or limited.

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eto

Still images would be possible. Probably just a pure tech demo and nice to show at a vintage computing exhibition.

GUNHED

#5
Quote from: Prodatron on 01:30, 01 June 22Giana is just simple 2D, it doesn't matter if it has 16, 32 or 64K or whatever vram at all.
For 3D you need two screens at 50Hz which are NEARLY the same but differ a little bit in case of the deepness.
A CPC could maybe achieve this by plotting preloaded small bitmaps or very simple line objects, which then have to run at 50Hz which is hard to achieve or limited.
You miss the point. The example of Giana serves as example for the CPC being able of having 50 fps scrolling. And this is the answer to the question which was asked in the thread before.

So two screens of 16 KB at 50 fps are no problem. And why should they? That's done in several games and demos as you know.

I assume you did misread my comment by intention like so often.

You just bitch at everything I write. Never saw a constructive comment from you (or BSC) during the last years in case I proposed something.
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GUNHED

Back to topic after the trolling...

Of course software is no problem.

The question is how to make a hardware adapter to add the 3D device to the CPC?
Or is it better to somehow rewire it?

Please _hardware-guys_ do answer here.  :) :) :)
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MaV

http://www.stereo3d.com/revelator.htm

A 100% proprietary device apart from the DIN-3 connector. The chances of getting this to work without documentation is close to zero. And the fact that it worked only with NVidia cards from the late 90s, early 2000s is a strong hint as well.
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ajcasado

This circuit http://www.int03.co.uk/crema/hardware/stereo/ could serve as starting point to drive the glasses. The question is if they must be fed at 12V or 5V. Anyway in that page you can find several compatible glasses with this hack.

If you want to explore the freak side of this technology you can also use this method:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uef17zOCDb8 :P
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Prodatron

#9
Quote from: GUNHED on 14:45, 07 June 22the CPC being able of having 50 fps scrolling.
This is what we know since nearly 40 years. What does that have to do with 3D shutter technology? Exactly: Nothing.


Quote from: GUNHED on 14:45, 07 June 22You just bitch at everything I write. Never saw a constructive comment from you (or BSC) during the last years in case I proposed something.
I was just sharing my thoughts, like eto, Bryce and others. If this makes you feel bullied, it's more likely your internal personal problem.


@ajcasado: Great video ;D

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Bryce

Quote from: ajcasado on 17:36, 07 June 22This circuit http://www.int03.co.uk/crema/hardware/stereo/ could serve as starting point to drive the glasses. The question is if they must be fed at 12V or 5V. Anyway in that page you can find several compatible glasses with this hack.

If you want to explore the freak side of this technology you can also use this method:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uef17zOCDb8 :P

I assume you know that that Jonathan Post video is completely fake? The "eyelid activators" (an LED flasher circuit embedded in hotglue) aren't even close to the position of a real persons eyelid muscles.

Bryce.

GUNHED

Ok, so can the glasses (see my original post) be connected to the CPC? And how?
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pelrun

Since you linked to wireless IR shutter glasses, what you want is an IR transmitter circuit that can send the correctly timed signals, probably with a microcontroller. Then it's just a matter of getting the CPC to trigger that somehow during vsync.

The IR protocol appears to be described here (Figure 6): https://cmst.curtin.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/05/2012-28-woods-helliwell-cross-compatibility_of_shutter_glasses.pdf

GUNHED

In case somebody is able to create an IR transmitter for the CPC that would be nice of course.

Here I search for a simple solution:
The CPC sends a signal to the glasses, this signal triggers to switch the 'dark side' of the glasses. Or maybe we need two simple (0 or 1) signals, for each glass one to make it dark or bright.

As output source the printer port of the expansion port could be used.

Let's keep it simple and cheap, so we have a chance to archive the goal.
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ajcasado

Quote from: Bryce on 10:56, 08 June 22I assume you know that that Jonathan Post video is completely fake? The "eyelid activators" (an LED flasher circuit embedded in hotglue) aren't even close to the position of a real persons eyelid muscles.
Yes I know, the maximum human eye blinking frequency can never reach 25Hz, that would be the minimum for a POV 3d stereo vision effect, as far I know. Sorry if the video linked in my post appeared to pretend being serious. Here is the "making of" of the joke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3VoVjAF0h8

Quote from: GUNHED on 16:34, 08 June 22In case somebody is able to create an IR transmitter for the CPC that would be nice of course.
The glasses you linked already have an IR emitter. They have also a DIN3 connector (VESA standard) to feed the IR emitter logic. To feed the DIN3 connector with a signal synchronized with the VSYNC signal the circuit of the "truly serious" link in my previous post should work.
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ajcasado

I forgot to mention that the VSYNC signal must be the "real one", I guess that driving it by software through the printer or expansion port will lose the synchronization with the CRT, so, if you dont want to get it from the mainboard PCB you should get it from the SYNC signal of the RGB connector, that is a mix of the VSYNC and HSYNC signals. It shouldn't be too complicated as the CRT itself decodes SYNC to VSYNC and HSYNC.
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GUNHED

Of course we can take VSYNC from the expansion port.
If there is a proto-type connector, then I will provide testing software.  :)
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pelrun

The CPC has plenty of time to send a signal during VBlank. It doesn't have to be perfectly aligned with VSync, it just has to get the glasses to flip at any time before the first visible scanline of the frame.

GUNHED

And the point of flipping can be adjusted by the software anyway. 
I assume that the system interrupt is precise enough if needed.
Just in case the glasses are driven by the program.

Or - more easy if doable - using a signal of the expansion port?? Can the CURSOR signal be used? Like done with the PlayCity. Well, here my understanding of hardware ends...
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Bryce

The workings of the hardware are pretty simple. The computer sends a signal to the glasses to close the shutter on one eye and open the shutter on the other eye. The computer then displays that signal on the screen for the open eye. It then sends the "swap to the other eye" signal and draws the screen for the other eye. So all the computer is really doing is producing alternating screens with a slightly different viewing angle and flipping the shutter on the glasses between these two screens. Obviously the computer needs to know which frame is for which eye so that it sends the appropriate signal before it starts plotting the screen.

Bryce.

GUNHED

Summarized up very well.

Now, the only thing that's left is to have a connection between the CPC and the glasses. 
How to do this?
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2022.03.09)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.12.26)

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