Author Topic: Anyone using 464 on crt tv and it looking crap compared to greenscreen?  (Read 1018 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mark25810

  • CPC464
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Country: gb
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 1
could it be to do with me putting the sharpness way up, there were a few different modes like movie and dynamic closes to what looked right was the movie one as the dynamic looked odd, but I wanted the sharpness up more so I chose custom, it just made it look a lot better to me as im playing

Offline gerald

  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 1.485
  • Liked: 1028
  • Likes Given: 257
I believe you! It's just that, lovely as those monitors are (4:3!I really want one!) it looks like there's some smoothing going on, from those photos, which is weird...
I am using a 710MP, which is the 17 inch (1280x1024) version and it's a great monitor for CPC use as it handles CRTC tricks very well.
Relentless and other are just as smooth as on a CRT. The 510MP is identical to the 710MP except for the screen itself which is 1024x768 only.
The only drawback is that it's a TFT screen with its view angle limitation.

I also have a 910MP, 19 inch 1280x1024 with VA screen, much better view angles than TFT, but I would not recommend it as it does not handle the CRTC tricks properly.
But with PiP it's really nice for development on real platform  :)

Offline mark25810

  • CPC464
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Country: gb
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 1

yeh so far I am very very pleased with it tbh the viewing angles are not a issue I have it positioned right and if I move to left or right etc I do not see a different while I do it in a seated position


I chose this one because it was closer to the Amstrad monitor size really and it looks fantastic, best £42 ive spent specially since it was more or less new just bene in storage. ill only be using it for the Amstrad though may use it when delving into other gaming but for now just Amstrad :D












Offline arkive

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
  • Country: tw
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 41
The "smoothing" is just how modern displays such as TFTs handle old school output, which was meant for CRTs. Personally, I find it unacceptable, because it just makes everything look like its reallt badly drawn, (a la hq2x and other "fun" filters on emulators). If I had to, I'd probably rather go for the raw super sharp pixel look (using emus or scalers), though this also looks totally unnatural.

Even so, I didn't think it'd be so blurry, if it's supposed to be true RGB...

Offline mark25810

  • CPC464
  • **
  • Posts: 37
  • Country: gb
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 1


No it doesn't lol now obviously using a original amstrad monitor is the best way, certainly better than a lot of crt tvs, but on this tft atleast nothing looks badly drawn if anything this looks way closer to how it supposed to look than using emulators which I often use. and you need to wipe you`re eyes if it looks bluury to you because it most certainly does not to me, not the same as on a Amstrad monitor like my green screen but I would hardly call it blurry. You seem to be a purist who accepts nothing but the original set up which is ok as I am and this is next best thing for me thanks


and you saying RAW and emulators in the same sentence kinda shows you do not know much :/ nothing will look like a good crt or Amstrad monitor and emulators are right at the bottom compared to a Amstrad plugged into a decent TFT  :picard2:



The "smoothing" is just how modern displays such as TFTs handle old school output, which was meant for CRTs. Personally, I find it unacceptable, because it just makes everything look like its reallt badly drawn, (a la hq2x and other "fun" filters on emulators). If I had to, I'd probably rather go for the raw super sharp pixel look (using emus or scalers), though this also looks totally unnatural.

Even so, I didn't think it'd be so blurry, if it's supposed to be true RGB...
« Last Edit: 23:09, 29 June 20 by mark25810 »

Offline arkive

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
  • Country: tw
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 41
and you saying RAW and emulators in the same sentence kinda shows you do not know much :/


Sure, I've only been studying this topic for years now, so what do I know...I'm glad you're here to enlighten me though :)

But, just for the record:
-emulators on a PC+monitor  output raw pixels. That will result in a supersharp image. To me it looks like "crap", because it's nothing like the original.
-sometimes they have scaling or filters set by default and then they may resemble your photos. To me it also looks like "crap", because it's nothing like the original.
-something in between these two will happen when you connect real hardware to a TFT monitor, like you did. Though, like I said I was expecting something sharper, since it's RGB. Your photos look like it's connected to a not very good TFT TV. Maybe your cable really is busted. Anyway, to me it also looks like "crap", because it's nothing like the original.

It has nothing to do with being a "purist" - I simply find the result very ugly visually. The pixels are smeary, the colours flat, blacks grey and the whole thing simply looks lifeless and off. The lack of scanlines, shadow mask/aperture and CRT's inherent glow just exacerbates
 these problems.

It's just how it is: computers made in the Eighties were made to work with CRT tech. CRT =/= TFT: it's totally different. And the game art was also created on, and for these displays. It's a fact of life and it won't change no matter how many facepalm emojis you put in your reply. This is why so many people who don't have a CRT set use scalers, scanline generators and shaders for emus, to somewhat alleviate the crappiness of the modern look.

 And monitors were better than TVs, but the difference is not as great as you imagine, certainly not with the latter CRT TV sets from the Noughties  (especially Trinitrons). Many games also use the "inferior" signals such as composite to employ all kinds of tricks, like dithering.

Now, of course, many people do like the modern look and, like you, think it's great. And that's perfectly fine - to each its own. But when somebody claims the original, intended look is "crap" (it's right there, in your post's title) and then makes some wild claims, then it requires a counterpoint. So, I'm not really here to argue with you, or rain on your parade, just to provide a different outlook on this subject - if only for historical reasons, and also for others, who might be considering choices.


Offline Gryzor

  • Administrator
  • 6128 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 15.843
  • Country: gr
  • CPC-Wiki maintainer
    • CPCWiki
  • Liked: 3365
  • Likes Given: 6026
Basically, as @arkive said, it looks precisely like a hq2x filter...

Offline RetroCPC

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
  • Country: hk
  • Liked: 13
  • Likes Given: 13
A Update, so I tried another CRT tv and it was not much better, I did bid on some Amstrad colour monitors but the prices went above what I would want to pay for the use it would get, as I do love the green screen monitor, so I saw a Samsung SyncMaster 510mp its a TFT which goes against what a lot of people like but for me its fantastic and was way cheaper and more or less new as the guy had a few in storage as backups for CCTV it has scart so use my cable I bought also s-video imputs and VGA

so this will do me really as looks way better than the CRT tvs I tried, later down the line if I can get a Amstrad monitor at a price I would pay then ill get one but no rush really

Mark,

Thanks for the info - I just purchased the last monitor from the seller (he kindly agreed to ship overseas).

I've had real troubles to find a working solution - see my recent post:

https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/gilding-the-dktronics-speech-synthesizer/msg188988/#msg188988

I guess you can also use the Monitors speakers inplace of the CPC's tiny Mono speaker...
« Last Edit: 14:48, 03 July 20 by RetroCPC »