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General Category => Amstrad CPC hardware => Topic started by: Sebastian Blanco on 02:23, 01 November 19

Title: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 02:23, 01 November 19
Got a "complete kit" with exception of the keyboard from Tetroid (he sells some stuff on sellmyretro) it includes the pcb,IC's, and passives also din connectors nicely wrapped in vintage grease paper  :D . From Novosibirsk.


In the past i got a pentagon kit from him and got it running on the first shot (my best speccy in my opinion), and the one i use the most so this encouraged my to try this kit also.


I don't think this is going to be an easy build there's very little information about this computer and the language barrier is big everything is in Russian an the only translators make a mess from the documentation.

Managed to scrounge every little piece of info i can get from the web including the shematics and the bom for the kit in this file is everything i got if someone find something useful: https://www.filehosting.org/file/details/830156/aleste.7z (https://www.filehosting.org/file/details/830156/aleste.7z)
Going to document here the build process in case i got it right it may help people later :) .


Someone have done this CPC clone ?.

pictures from the kit:

(https://i.ibb.co/tx2NqBY/IMG-20191030-193544.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1dXprZR)(https://i.ibb.co/f4Qx8xG/IMG-20191031-205515.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xJ37m78)(https://i.ibb.co/Nxdfxht/IMG-20191031-205518.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qB3hBG7)
(https://i.ibb.co/M1sZxZb/IMG-20191031-205521.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DMtzHzN)
(https://i.ibb.co/zSykKPK/IMG-20191031-205525.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dQdhnkn)
(https://i.ibb.co/N1cFfmM/IMG-20191031-205528.jpg) (https://ibb.co/28GFRsT)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: GUNHED on 05:43, 01 November 19
Awesome! Let us please know as soon as it is running. Never saw one in real life.  :)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: TotO on 07:04, 01 November 19
A friend is currently close to finish one... I will ask.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: llopis on 10:35, 01 November 19
Oh wow! I didn't even know this existed. Where can I order a kit like this? I'd love to give it a try.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 16:02, 01 November 19
Quote from: TotO on 07:04, 01 November 19
A friend is currently close to finish one... I will ask.
Could be great to know, if the board need any corrections and pictures ! etc :)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 16:03, 01 November 19
Quote from: llopis on 10:35, 01 November 19
Oh wow! I didn't even know this existed. Where can I order a kit like this? I'd love to give it a try.
Just email the seller tetroid@inbox.ru and ask for the aleste kit.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: LambdaMikel on 16:05, 01 November 19
A lot of info still here, including the interview:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/aleste-520ex/25/
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Aleste_520EX
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 16:21, 01 November 19
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 16:05, 01 November 19
A lot of info still here, including the interview:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/aleste-520ex/25/ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/aleste-520ex/25/)
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Aleste_520EX (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Aleste_520EX)
Thanks i will take a look for usefull information  :D
[color=inherit !important][size=13px !important][/size][/color]
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: deepfb on 16:39, 01 November 19
Quote from: llopis on 10:35, 01 November 19
Oh wow! I didn't even know this existed. Where can I order a kit like this? I'd love to give it a try.

Noel, I already told you I had one of the new boards -didn't you realize it was a remake? :D

Cpcmaníaco bought the 2018 revision of the board more than one year ago, and I was commissioned to find the components and solder everything on it. It is almost done since months ago...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48995371198_cf171dcb50.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hDy5Th)

...except for the elusive KP1802ИР1 (https://eandc.ru/pdf/mikroskhema/k1802ir1.pdf) dual RAM ICs: the footprint on the board is for the DIP plastic package (it's almost impossible to fit the more common, surface mounting, 1802ИР1 on it), and I haven't managed to find them until some weeks ago. If anybody is looking for components for these Russian PCBs (Aleste, or ZX clones), I can provide the addresses of a pair of suppliers who may sell them.

Btw, I joint the Russian forum where this New Aleste was born, and I sent them dumps of the EPROMs on my original Aleste. It seems they are different to those they were using, actually a more up-to-date version! I can provide those dumps for anybody -actually, they are stored in the GUA's FTP, along with the MSX & CPC games we found for the computer some years ago.

The casing for the 2018 revision of the Aleste was another finding I did on that Russian forum. The PCB's form factor is intended for a standard (standard as of the beginning of the 90s) casing that was used on some Elektronika computers, such as the MS1502 and the MS0511 (AKA UKNC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKNC), "the Russian Amiga"). I got crazy about finding any of these computers, and I ended buying one MS1502 to dismantle it & use the casing for the Aleste, and one UKNC just to play with it xD

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7861/33165010658_f3d797719d.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SwFmdA)

I guess we will be able to switch this thing on before the end of the year, during one of the upcoming GUA meetings in Madrid. I will let you know if we succeed on having anything on screen! :D
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 17:07, 01 November 19
cool deepfb i see your board is different that mine yours is the one done to get into the uknc case.I have an uknc computer also and also purchased the same pcb as yours, the russian ICS look hard to get.
Then i hear from tetroid and ended up purchasing his kit that have all the original ics included and the eproms and gals already programed.
Got this keyboard https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-soviet-ELEKTRONIKA-MC-computer-IBM-keyboard-MS7007-NOS-NIB-sealed-new/333300714817?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
and here is the board for the uknc case version https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCB-Aleste-520EX-%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0-compatible-Amstrad-CPC/383169343502?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Do you know if the keyboard layout is JKUNG or QWERTY ?, and if is possible to change the layout changing the rom or something ?.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: GUNHED on 17:25, 01 November 19
Nice! And yes, that's really a big board!  :)


Out of curiosity, does CP/M Plus, SymbOS and FutureOS run on the Aleste?
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: deepfb on 17:26, 01 November 19
Quote from: Sebastian Blanco on 17:07, 01 November 19
Do you know if the keyboard layout is JKUNG or QWERTY ?, and if is possible to change the layout changing the rom or something ?.
The original Aleste uses the traditional Russian typewriter keyboard layout (JCUKEN), and afaik they followed that scheme on all those re-makes.
It may be possible to change the firmware in order to plug a QWERTY keyboard, but I don't know how to do it. I guess the guy who should take a look on it is Valery himself, but last time I contacted him -or met him on a forum- was, like, four or five years ago :-/
Quite off topic: while looking for the pictures I have attached to my last message, I have found this old one xDD

(https://live.staticflickr.com/8391/8567136521_20e507f515.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/e43Pdn)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 17:28, 01 November 19
Quote from: GUNHED on 17:25, 01 November 19
Nice! And yes, that's really a big board!  :)


Out of curiosity, does CP/M Plus, SymbOS and FutureOS run on the Aleste?
I have seen pictures of cp/m and symbos running on the aleste in the russian forum zxpk.ru msxdos also runs.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: GUNHED on 17:30, 01 November 19
Quote from: Sebastian Blanco on 17:28, 01 November 19
I have seen pictures of cp/m and symbos running on the aleste in the russian forum zxpk.ru msxdos also runs.
Hopefully someone will try and report. Any idea about FutureOS?


The reason I ask is ... well, this nice machine is a MSX and CPC somehow. Therefore compatibility is of interest.  :)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: deepfb on 17:33, 01 November 19
Quote from: GUNHED on 17:25, 01 November 19
Out of curiosity, does CP/M Plus, SymbOS and FutureOS run on the Aleste?
I think we managed to run a lite version of Symbos on the Aleste during a MSX meeting (MadriSX 2008 (http://www.msxblog.es/madrisx-el-25%C2%BA-aniversario-en-familia/)), but if you are asking whether it is mapping the RAM the same way as the original CPC, I would say... well, I am not sure: Dragonninja crashes if you try to load it :-D
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 17:42, 01 November 19
Quote from: deepfb on 17:33, 01 November 19
I think we managed to run a lite version of Symbos on the Aleste during a MSX meeting (MadriSX 2008 (http://www.msxblog.es/madrisx-el-25%C2%BA-aniversario-en-familia/)), but if you are asking whether it is mapping the RAM the same way as the original CPC, I would say... well, I am not sure: Dragonninja crashes if you try to load it :-D
From the forum:https://zx-pk.ru/threads/20769-kompyuter-quot-aleste-520ex-quot/page22.html
Look like they change something and now can go up to 256k.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: genesis8 on 23:30, 12 November 19
From this russian forum in one signature a web site in english about the Aleste 520EX : http://aleste520.narod.ru/ (http://aleste520.narod.ru/)


There is even an Aleste emulator using a modified version of Caprice32 : [size=78%]http://aleste520.narod.ru/caprice.html (http://aleste520.narod.ru/caprice.html)[/size]

BTW Sebastian, can I use your photos on my web site at [size=78%]https://www.genesis8bit.fr/archives/index.php?news_id=1388 (https://www.genesis8bit.fr/archives/index.php?news_id=1388)[/size] ?
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: vk5hbl on 14:00, 07 February 20
Sebastian ,


Just wondering how your going / went with this build?


I ordered a kit from Tetroid and are in the process of building mine up.


cheers
Darren
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 17:55, 18 February 20
Still don't started to assemble the kit a little scared of doing this without any help

I was asking for information in zxpk.ru but got nothing.
Also read the  thread about the assembly of the board like 20 times to try to understand what they are talking about using the translator this resulted in very little usable information.

Then asked the seller of the kit vitaly for some basic questions (if he knows if the pcb requires any corrections) etc but he kindly ignored me.
So no help from the Russians, i have to start soldering and pray that everything will work.Usually is best if there's any need to cut traces etc on the pcb to do it before soldering.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: llopis on 17:58, 18 February 20

Quote from: Sebastian Blanco on 17:55, 18 February 20Still don't started to assemble the kit a little scared of doing this without any help

I was asking for information in zxpk.ru but got nothing.
Also read the  thread about the assembly of the board like 20 times to try to understand what they are talking about using the translator this resulted in very little usable information.

Then asked the seller of the kit vitaly for some basic questions (if he knows if the pcb requires any corrections) etc but he kindly ignored me.
So no help from the Russians so i will be on my own on this, i have to start soldering and pray that everything will work.
I have a kit on its way right now, so post any questions here as you go and hopefully we'll manage to figure it out :-)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 18:02, 18 February 20
Quote from: llopis on 17:58, 18 February 20
I have a kit on its way right now, so post any questions here as you go and hopefully we'll manage to figure it out :-)
Also if you need the keyboard i purchased one of this :https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-soviet-ELEKTRONIKA-MC-computer-IBM-keyboard-MS7007-NOS-NIB-sealed-new/333300714817?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
I'm almost 100% sure this is the keyboard that the aleste uses.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: llopis on 18:12, 18 February 20
Is the keyboard compatible with the 464 or 6128 ones, or do you need that special keyboard? I never even looked that far ahead :-)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 18:18, 18 February 20
The keyboard is a Russian one is the same of the UKNC computers and is on JKUNG layout (must be super funny to type stuff on it).
The link i provided on the previous post is from a seller on ebay that sell the UKNC keyboards brand new and they are quite cheap.
Its not compatible to the CPC keyboards the matrix is very different have more pins in the connectors etc.

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 18:26, 18 February 20
Another doubt i have was that theres no power plug in the board, but lucky a russian user got me this information:
goodboy from zxpk.ru told me that power +5v must be feed into the board using the holes close to C20i marked them in yellow on the shematic linked below:
(https://i.ibb.co/kQHrDfy/Captura.png) (https://ibb.co/kQHrDfy)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 18:39, 18 February 20
Quote from: vk5hbl on 14:00, 07 February 20
Sebastian ,


Just wondering how your going / went with this build?


I ordered a kit from Tetroid and are in the process of building mine up.


cheers
Darren
Hi do you already started the build ?
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: deepfb on 19:17, 18 February 20
Quote from: Sebastian Blanco on 18:26, 18 February 20
Another doubt i have was that theres no power plug in the board, but lucky a russian user got me this information:
goodboy from zxpk.ru told me that power +5v must be feed into the board using the holes close to C20i marked them in yellow on the shematic linked below:


That's not the new board layout, but the original Aleste PCB by Patisonic. You may feed the board into any +5V rail, though.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 09:22, 19 February 20
Quote from: Sebastian Blanco on 18:26, 18 February 20
Another doubt i have was that theres no power plug in the board, but lucky a russian user got me this information:
goodboy from zxpk.ru told me that power +5v must be feed into the board using the holes close to C20i marked them in yellow on the shematic linked below:
(https://i.ibb.co/kQHrDfy/Captura.png) (https://ibb.co/kQHrDfy)

I don't have one of these boards, but I might be able to assist with general questions if you have any.

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 16:33, 19 February 20
All help will be welcome Brice :D.
Also yuriy_sazonov (https://zx-pk.ru/members/8492-yuriy_sazonov.html) from the zx-pk forum told me this:"Hello !
As I see you have a board version 1.004, which means that it does not needed any correction.
For the first start, I recommend not to install a coil "DR2""

That was what i need to start so no corrections required to the board, now what the DR2 coil does and why is not recommended to start i have to check the schematics.

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 11:40, 20 February 20
I don't have any board at all, so I definitely don't need to make any changes :D (except maybe buy one?)
Greetings back to Yuriy from me too.


Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 17:07, 20 February 20
Quote from: Bryce on 11:40, 20 February 20
I don't have any board at all, so I definitely don't need to make any changes :D (except maybe buy one?)
Greetings back to Yuriy from me too.


Bryce.
Sorry Bryce was not referring to you about that they where to completely separated comments.
The yuri thing was just to add the info to the thread i case someone else find it useful.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 17:41, 20 February 20
I was actually considering buying one of his boards, so the comment is still valid, even if it wasn't particularly directed to me. :)


Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: vk5hbl on 04:38, 22 February 20
Quote from: Sebastian Blanco on 18:39, 18 February 20
Hi do you already started the build ?




Yes i have started soldering it up, Unfortunately the seller of the kit only sent about half the ic sockets required to build it up.
So currently waiting for them to arrive from china.


I will report back and maybe post some pictures once i have progressed a little bit further.

Darren
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: deepfb on 14:25, 22 February 20
Quote from: deepfb on 19:17, 18 February 20

That's not the new board layout, but the original Aleste PCB by Patisonic. You may feed the board into any +5V rail, though.
Llopis has sent me pictures of the board he has just received -and the PCB kit they are now selling is not the 'Aleste 2018' model, but a replica of the original board. So the form factor does not fit on the Elektronika MSxxxx casing.

If anybody is buying one of these boards, please take this into account. The 'Aleste 2018' is more square-shaped than the original, and I am not sure if the keyboards are exchangable between them. The original PCB is easily recognizable by the edge connectors on the back and the RAM ICs close to the bottom-right corner.
Aleste 2018 PCB:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48995371198_cf171dcb50_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hDy5Th)

Original Aleste PCB:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3148/2521738697_2aa068fbe3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/4QQz4p)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: llopis on 11:28, 23 February 20
And here's a picture of the one I just received:

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 13:22, 23 February 20
Where can you order them and what do they cost?

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: llopis on 13:26, 23 February 20
Quote from: Bryce on 13:22, 23 February 20
Where can you order them and what do they cost?
It costs $117 including shipping with tracking.
I ordered it from Tetroid. I don't know if he's in this forum. I had ordered a kit for the Pentagon 128K Spectrum from him a couple of years back, so I already had his email address. I can put you in touch with him if he's not here.

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 13:29, 23 February 20
I won't buy it just yet as funds are low, but I've added it to my "why not?" list.

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: ||C|-|E|| on 15:02, 23 February 20
It certainly looks very tempting to buy one  :)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: TotO on 15:06, 23 February 20
Is someone has seen it working?
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: VintageAdvantage on 20:03, 24 February 20
You guys are so brave trying to get that Russian hodgepodge to work, with so little documentation and Russian chip names and what have you!
Good luck, you guys are heroes!!   8)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 22:21, 24 February 20
i have successfully build another kit that i got from vitaly for the pentagon 2014 so wish this one will be as easy.(https://i.ibb.co/xL9sNv1/27459087-10215589557352700-6620201776742390461-n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xL9sNv1) (https://i.ibb.co/sHYrC3n/27337371-10215590846064917-7587586110183862690-n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sHYrC3n) (https://i.ibb.co/YyDj3mX/27654827-10215556612649103-490401055152789109-n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YyDj3mX)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: VintageAdvantage on 19:03, 25 February 20
Quote from: Sebastian Blanco on 22:21, 24 February 20
the pentagon 2014


The Pentagon - Love it!! Maybe I'll call my next computer replica the Kremlin - made in the USA!  8) ;D :laugh: 
Those Russian hacker dudes have a good sense of humor for sure!

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 06:41, 13 September 20
Hey guys someone have build the kit ?, i still have to do mine  :picard:
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: llopis on 10:56, 13 September 20
Quote from: Sebastian Blanco on 06:41, 13 September 20
Hey guys someone have build the kit ?, i still have to do mine  :picard:
I haven't yet. I've been waiting until I can find a keyboard and case for it, but so far no luck.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 17:29, 14 September 20
Quote from: llopis on 10:56, 13 September 20
I haven't yet. I've been waiting until I can find a keyboard and case for it, but so far no luck.
The keyboard luckly can be sourced brand new and is cheap !, i already got one months ago.https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-soviet-ELEKTRONIKA-MC-computer-IBM-keyboard-MS7007-NOS-NIB-sealed-new/333300714817?hash=item4d9a454d41:g:VSUAAOSweW5U-vF0
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: llopis on 17:53, 14 September 20
Quote from: Sebastian Blanco on 17:29, 14 September 20
The keyboard luckly can be sourced brand new and is cheap !, i already got one months ago.https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-soviet-ELEKTRONIKA-MC-computer-IBM-keyboard-MS7007-NOS-NIB-sealed-new/333300714817?hash=item4d9a454d41:g:VSUAAOSweW5U-vF0 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-soviet-ELEKTRONIKA-MC-computer-IBM-keyboard-MS7007-NOS-NIB-sealed-new/333300714817?hash=item4d9a454d41:g:VSUAAOSweW5U-vF0)
I saw that, but I was holding out hoping to find a case too. What are your plans for a case? 3D print one? I've been waiting for a while and nothing shows up on Ebay for a reasonable price, so maybe that's the way to go. As a bonus, we can put the openings in the back in the right locations.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 19:29, 14 September 20
About the case i was thinking like you getting a quorum silver case (is the same this system use only different ports in the back) but after seeing how expensive this will be. Now i fell like will do my own case, i have done it before got something that look computerish and then use laser cut acrylic for the ports in the back etc.Also if you get any old russian computer a brand new keyboard is a great addition usually they are very beat up from use, the quality of the keyboards is low.

This is my pentagon 128 for the case i used a jvc video mixer also pictured
(https://iili.io/2BpQ6u.md.jpg) (https://freeimage.host/i/2BpQ6u)
(https://iili.io/2BpLGe.jpg) (https://freeimage.host/)
(https://iili.io/2Bpsn9.jpg) (https://freeimage.host/)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 11:22, 15 September 20
You could almost tell people that it's a Philips HitBit HB75-P prototype and they'd probably believe you! :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: villain on 19:35, 15 September 20
Quote from: Bryce on 11:22, 15 September 20
You could almost tell people that it's a Philips HitBit HB75-P prototype and they'd probably believe you! :D

Bryce.
:-D Just paint a red reset-button on the top!
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 05:46, 16 September 20
Bite the bullet, and started the build.Now the ram chips they are tightly packed !, to be able to fit the sockets i have to shave plastic from the sides on all of them, ended up using precision sockets for the included sockets in the kit are too flimsy for my taste to do this.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZYdqQNT/16bf204d-9a96-48f1-b2d7-41f74520070b.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SdNFkJv)
(https://i.ibb.co/MNc2zzn/9f81fabb-465f-40ca-9c48-eba3fca6a40d.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F75xQQ6)

(https://i.ibb.co/16tS6Kx/IMG-20200915-232622.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PQvSQ48)
All sockets soldered now the fun stuff soldering resistors  :P
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 23:56, 16 September 20
 ;D
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 21:19, 20 September 20
Almost there i soldered most component, discovered that in my kit there was a lot of missing resistors i have to purchase before finishing.Now the fun part deciphering the capacitor list.
I got most there but what is:
CAP ??  i suppose that all the CAP are 0.1uf (theres a big bag of them in the kit)

470 (is nano ? is pico ?)
1h ?
47h ?.

(https://i.ibb.co/RbJzNS4/IMG-20200920-151419.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W5Rg03p)

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 00:15, 21 September 20
Well if you go by the generally accepted rules: If no denominator is shown, then it's the base denominator, with capacitors that would be pico. But it would make more sense to look at where the capacitor in the circuit is and what's its function. That will definitely tell you what value range it should be.

As for "H", I suspect that they have just named an inductor with Cxxx, again a quick look in the schematic will answer this too.

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 00:40, 21 September 20
After checking out this https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00809A000700030074-5.pdfWho could now the CIA will help me out of this one  :o And also asked a russian guy and he confirmed the information.
This are the equivalents to the russian values:
(https://i.ibb.co/HrMjdzH/IMG-20200920-183803.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RCMqy0D)

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 00:46, 21 September 20
Quote from: Bryce on 00:15, 21 September 20
Well if you go by the generally accepted rules: If no denominator is shown, then it's the base denominator, with capacitors that would be pico. But it would make more sense to look at where the capacitor in the circuit is and what's its function. That will definitely tell you what value range it should be.

As for "H", I suspect that they have just named an inductor with Cxxx, again a quick look in the schematic will answer this too.

Bryce.
Well here they are for example some of the capacitors called CAP on the shematic also theres a single resistor in the schematics called RES for some reason.
I suppose all this caps (RES) should be 0.1uf ? they all seem to be filter caps.
(https://i.ibb.co/tYXhwPW/IMG-20200919-203521.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CV2tpsT)
(https://i.ibb.co/YyfqnRq/IMG-20200919-203552.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gPtBqjB)

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 04:43, 21 September 20
Have been reading the russian forum thread about build the aleste like 150 times
They are several mistery components on the BOM, from the thread i get they are not clear.
Theres a lot of going up and down on this values.

This is the list and what i could find of possible correct values:
C15 Less than 47pf (from forum post)
C16 Less than 47pf (from forum post)
C17 Less than 47pf (from forum post)
C18 ?????? nothing
C3 6800pf (from forum post)
C4 1000pf (from forum post)
C5 510pf (from forum post)
R136 2K (from a picture of old board)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 04:49, 21 September 20
This is from the 30+ pages thread the only relevant information to building the missing parts on the bom:

#If in essence - C3 - 6800pF 10%, C4 - 1000pF 10%, C5 - 510pF 10%
#What are the denominations of C3, C4, C5?
   
    And no one knows this.

    As for the C5 Conder, I won't say what capacity I put, I just don't remember. Now instead of him I have made revision number 2. Only the revision was made not on TM2 but on IR16 as in the famous photo on the internet. With TM2, my computer was buggy, apparently there was some kind of jamb in the circuit, or maybe I soldered something wrong. I didn't understand.

    When assembling the computer, in place of C3, I stuck a 0.22 microfarad condenser, but then it had to be selected together with a resistor R5. Otherwise, there will be glitches in games and demos. What capacity is now installed I will not say, you need to disassemble the computer, but I have it already packed in the case. And I'm sure that now I have it installed in the wrong capacity, which should be. Here it is necessary for connoisseurs of circuitry to understand. I asked the owner of a real car to specify the capacitance C3 and the resistance value R5 on his computer. Six months later, that is still waiting for an answer)))

    Well, C4 everything just as it is written in the manual for start-up and commissioning of computer "Depending on the instance D65 is dictated by the need of the capacitor C4, and it is defined by the absence of small failures horizontal sync in different graphics modes. " so you probably won't need it.
   
    QuoteMessage from Mick View Post
    And instead of R136, a jumper or a break or a cut with a face value (which one)?
    At the first start, I installed a 2.7k resistor as R136, by analogy with the R6 resistor. After the assembly of revision number 1, this rezyuk and the VD12 diode were completely removed from the board.



#Please tell me the ratings of the CAP capacitors: c15, c16, c17

   I think they are very small, for example 4.7pF with a R62-64 rating equal to 50 ohms. Your task is to remove fine noise from the image in the form of light ripples, if there is any. In any case, this capacity should not be more than 47pF .
   At 220 ohms, theoretically, 1 pF is sufficient. The value of this resistor does not matter. It is clear that it must be at least 50oM.
   
   
   
#What is the C8 capacitor used for and what value should it be?
 
      С8 extinguishes the "needles" bursts of invalid signal HY * to the D65 / 10 pin, which can occur when the address is switched at the ROM D10 input. Select the minimum denomination at which there is no extra "garbage" on HY *. Set it to 47pF and watch the waveform. Increase until you get an acceptable result. Or decrease it. Remember that the oscilloscope probe itself has a capacitance of 5-15pF.
      If I'm not confusing anything, then this signal with level 0 is generated every 27 lines of the screen and is equal to the length of one line. Obviously this is one of the favorite CPC tricks for changing the palette or parallax effect.
     
     
     
#After installing Conder C3 with a capacity of 6800pf, the computer did not work stably.
    In some games, sprites began to deteriorate, demos stopped running,     which worked somehow before replacing the conductor. Before that, I had a 0.22 microfarad capacitor and a 2k resistor R5 installed. While taking a timeout. As soon as free time appears, I will again carefully look at everything that I soldered, maybe where I made a mistake ...
    This is strange. Next time, if you can take a picture of the oscilogram at the R input of the trigger? For example 6.8 try little more. But 0.22uF looks too big. With another

    QuotePosted by Dmitry2012 View Post
    I would like to clarify the denominations of some details, specifically interested in: C5, R134, R6, R136. Another question about the improvements, which are described in the computer setup manual. Are the diagrams correct there, are there errors in them?
    R134 - from 33th to 100th. The problem with this chain only affects the performance of the palette. It cannot lead to a computer crash.
    About the C5 was written above. Actually it is not needed. It was added to the circuit after the board was laid out. Any smallest denomination or none at all.

    R6 - 1..2k simple pull-up is responsible for screen blanking. It cannot lead to a crash. Screen blanking by register bit D32.Q4
    R136 - 1..2k high resolution mode is formed by D32.Q1 . ( HIGHTY ) Should not lead to a crash. Switches the address generator to high resolution mode.

    D32.Q2 ( HIGHTX) the signal switches the clock generator to high resolution mode. I don't remember the reason why two separate devices for one and the same functionality are controlled separately. But it seems it was for a more "soft / hidden" mode switching. I will remember - I will say.



#Hello !
    #As I see you have a board version 1.004, which means that it does not needed any correction.
    For the first start, I recommend not to install a coil "DR2"
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 12:01, 21 September 20
C15 / 16 / 17 are for tuning the sharpness of the picture, 47pf sounds like a reasonable value, but you could probably try different values right up to about 220pf to get the picture you prefer.

Can you post the part of the schematic where C3 / 4 / 5 are so that I can see what they are doing.

As for R136, I'd guess it will need to be a pretty low value, probably 10R or there abouts? It seems to be there to avaoid bus contention.

Bryce.

Edit: Just spotted C4 above, you could probably leave this out completely, It's there stretch the sync signal, if the picture isn't stable with no capacitor, then try different (pf value) caps until the picture stabilises.

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 00:42, 22 September 20
This is are captures of the offensive caps in question :

(https://i.ibb.co/RvHBvkd/c3.png) (https://ibb.co/tmCxmTF)
(https://i.ibb.co/grzV0xT/C4.png) (https://ibb.co/6ygBKkP)
(https://i.ibb.co/0cS94d6/C5.png) (https://ibb.co/g3pWqBf)
(https://i.ibb.co/wLvsNpD/c15-c17.png) (https://ibb.co/rtWsG5n)
(https://i.ibb.co/17Np5nC/C18.png) (https://ibb.co/rFhLStB)
(https://i.ibb.co/hDMgHpS/r136.png) (https://ibb.co/m6BRtQ3)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 10:54, 22 September 20
Wow, the timing of the circuitry must have been a mess, almost all of these are to stretch / buffer signals. C3 is a bit of a mystery.

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 05:31, 27 September 20
Quote from: Bryce on 10:54, 22 September 20
Wow, the timing of the circuitry must have been a mess, almost all of these are to stretch / buffer signals. C3 is a bit of a mystery.

Bryce.
Ok, the only cap that i have no idea of the possible values is C18, do you have an idea of what i can trow in there ?.
https://ibb.co/rFhLStB
Also what you think about installing sockets where the mystery caps go to swap them and test ?, this can work out for caps using precision socket pins they seem to be a good fit.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 10:31, 27 September 20
I'd guess it's a small ceramic cap, maybe around 47pf? Nothing wrong with using a socket for trial and error, but I'd remove the socket once I'd found a suitable value.

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 18:56, 27 September 20
Quote from: Bryce on 10:31, 27 September 20
I'd guess it's a small ceramic cap, maybe around 47pf? Nothing wrong with using a socket for trial and error, but I'd remove the socket once I'd found a suitable value.

Bryce.
Great gonna do so :D .Also got this info from the russian forum:
Judging by the scheme, C18 is needed to adjust the PLL FDD of the drive (PLL FDD) and should be set in case of problems with reading from the drive. Its capacity should be within tens of picofarads or several hundred picofarads.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 20:24, 27 September 20
If it's for the FDD PLL you may need more stability. If the value works, but is unreliable (only works on certain days), you may need to use a foil capacitor instead.

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 05:54, 28 September 20
Almost there, assembled 99% components installed.Run some quick checks for power and clock on the cpu only.Draws 2.1 Amps at 5.0v.Got 3.3mhz on the scope seem to be a correct clock signal for a Z80 ?, the speed for a CPC should be 4 mhz.Still unsure how this thing works, next i have to add some missing caps and do the RGB cable to see if i got a picture
At least it didn't catch fire but hell the soviet memory run hot! after a wile of being power up the fill quite warm!. ;D

(https://i.ibb.co/q9gVYCJ/bea05256-2a6e-4206-a4d6-52dd94ff9b3f.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L6gHdrN)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ths705d/2f82b606-7842-4625-bd81-161b31c16b2e.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w6fPQ1j)
(https://i.ibb.co/9bLNS3j/4a99b6ba-eca0-46a1-99e9-1bac04f38fc0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y61X7BJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/GdRLL7p/6f43afa8-4bce-453c-92c8-1848c55a9be3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x2600hL)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 11:04, 28 September 20
CPU's don't have an exact clock speed, they run at whatever clock you give them (within their permissable range).

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 03:05, 29 September 20
Its alive master ! its alive its alive !  :o
(https://i.ibb.co/N98vf1t/5e036fc0-ad46-4a5e-a5bf-8f8205f3f899.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2vD9R8W)
(https://i.ibb.co/2jC9Db3/ff38919e-b068-41db-aa79-e2c616759d46.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BgQpX12)

[color=inherit !important][size=13px !important][/size][/color]
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: robcfg on 08:15, 29 September 20
Congratulations!  :D
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: deepfb on 08:19, 29 September 20
Congratulations! I soldered everything in our board, but I don't have the files to write on the EPROMs. Could you please share them? Thank you!
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 11:09, 29 September 20
Great work Sebastian. A job you can be proud of.


You should probably let people know which value capacitors you chose to help others who are building one.

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Kris on 20:56, 29 September 20
Quote from: Bryce on 11:09, 29 September 20You should probably let people know which value capacitors you chose to help others who are building one.

Bryce.

+1

A full list would be much appreciated :D

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 21:45, 29 September 20
Thank for the congrats guys!, and thanks to Bryce for all the help.
Used the components in the BOM for most of the board.
Here are the components installed i choose, marked as CAP and RES on the schematics:
C15 22pf
C16 22pf
C17 22pf
C18 22pf
C3 6800pf
C4 1000pf
C5 510pf
C8 1n
R136 2.2K

Anyway this components are enough to power up "OK" but this don't mean that this will work stable running software.
Have to do some testing before declaring victory on this.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 21:57, 29 September 20
Quote from: deepfb on 08:19, 29 September 20
Congratulations! I soldered everything in our board, but I don't have the files to write on the EPROMs. Could you please share them? Thank you!


This are the aleste roms:
https://mega.nz/file/IpNjVAxK#hjs2xH0Bj7YyhHjh6dU-nIQoZ9kpkUE1kfRmsP6N7Q8
https://mega.nz/file/54UVVAwa#Ohrdk4O9upPBdF_E3q1pUA_N-vvTUDEAs985wJ0zkLQ
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 10:47, 30 September 20
Quote from: Sebastian Blanco on 21:45, 29 September 20
Thank for the congrats guys!, and thanks to Bryce for all the help.
Used the components in the BOM for most of the board.
Here are the components installed i choose, marked as CAP and RES on the schematics:
C15 22pf
C16 22pf
C17 22pf
C18 22pf
C3 6800pf
C4 1000pf
C5 510pf
C8 1n
R136 2.2K

Anyway this components are enough to power up "OK" but this don't mean that this will work stable running software.
Have to do some testing before declaring victory on this.

For those not used to ordering capacitors: C4 and C8 are the same value - 1000pf = 1nf. C3 will also usually be sold as 6.8nf.

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: IRIOS on 13:50, 01 November 20

Hello,
I am mounting the computer (ALESTE PCB 2018) and I do not have the reference of U5.
Would it be possible to have the reference of the U5 component?

Thanks a lot.
Best regard
Irios
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 22:43, 03 November 20
Quote from: IRIOS on 13:50, 01 November 20
Hello,
I am mounting the computer (ALESTE PCB 2018) and I do not have the reference of U5.
Would it be possible to have the reference of the U5 component?

Thanks a lot.
Best regard
Irios
Can you point out where in the board is the ic ?, a picture if possible ?.I don't have any Ux components on the BOM.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Bryce on 10:12, 04 November 20
U5 means IC5, but check anyway in case the chips are numbered differently on different versions.

Bryce.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: IRIOS on 15:37, 22 December 20
Hello,
Thank you for your answers.
Below are the photos of the board and the U5 component.

I looked at all the diagrams on the net but there is no mention of this U5 component.
Is it an interface that has been added? Is it maybe an LF amplifier?

Thank you for your help


http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/RED%20PCB%20ALESTE.PNG (http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/RED%20PCB%20ALESTE.PNG)
http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/U5.PNG (http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/U5.PNG)
http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/BLACK%20PCB%20ALESTE.jpg (http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/BLACK%20PCB%20ALESTE.jpg)
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 02:42, 19 April 21
Quote from: IRIOS on 15:37, 22 December 20
Hello,
Thank you for your answers.
Below are the photos of the board and the U5 component.

I looked at all the diagrams on the net but there is no mention of this U5 component.
Is it an interface that has been added? Is it maybe an LF amplifier?

Thank you for your help


http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/RED%20PCB%20ALESTE.PNG (http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/RED%20PCB%20ALESTE.PNG)
http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/U5.PNG (http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/U5.PNG)
http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/BLACK%20PCB%20ALESTE.jpg (http://irios.free.fr/ALESTE/BLACK%20PCB%20ALESTE.jpg)


Hi sorry but you are building the other version of the aleste board that is for replacement of the UKNC one.
I can't help you on this chip.
You can ask on https://zx-pk.com/forum/ theres a thread in there about assembly this particular board.

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: RockRiver on 11:03, 18 June 21
Hi Aleste users and enthusiastics...
I recently have a MSXVR, now that VR scene trying to run different CPC models.

As " missing link " between CPC and MSX2, Aleste is great and brotherhood in the two 8bit scenes  :)


If I convince MSXVR coders to emulate Aleste maybe they will like it msx-dos use, new screen modes...

* anyone would load "new" MSX2 games on Aleste ?
* Metal Gear on Aleste??? dedicated web site said it was happened .
With a Hex Editor or BIN editor we can change Metal Gear header ; or "Patisonic" Loader or other ROMs/BIN . Coping actual header of other running Aleste's MSX2 soft... (kings valley...)


>>>>Q: But MSX software had to be patched to work on Aleste, isn't it?
A: No. If the program doesn't directly call hardware, it will work well. Such things as archivers, compillers, command.com, msxdos.sys or VFY (disk verifier) worked without changes. When we adapted MSX DOS we took many command line tools from MSX DOS. The most difficult thing was rebuilding the MSX disk ROM because MSX uses different FD controller.
Q: And how did you loaded MSX cartridge dumps? (it was possible, if I am not wrong?)
A: Cartridges were not popular at Russia.

Q: But the games you had were cartridge dumps, isn't it? King's Valley is a cartridge game, and you had the game... I suppose you had a .bin file which was a dump of the EPROM of the cartridge, is it right?
A: Right, games were cartridge dumps. But we only got five or six games for MSX (and all of them were MSX 2 games), so we changed game's code. All this MSX games have a little BIOS at first 2KB and a little loader. We replaced both the BIOS and the loader by ours.<<<<<<
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 18:24, 04 April 22
Quote from: RockRiver on 11:03, 18 June 21Hi Aleste users and enthusiastics...
I recently have a MSXVR, now that VR scene trying to run different CPC models.

As " missing link " between CPC and MSX2, Aleste is great and brotherhood in the two 8bit scenes  :)


If I convince MSXVR coders to emulate Aleste maybe they will like it msx-dos use, new screen modes...

* anyone would load "new" MSX2 games on Aleste ?
* Metal Gear on Aleste??? dedicated web site said it was happened .
With a Hex Editor or BIN editor we can change Metal Gear header ; or "Patisonic" Loader or other ROMs/BIN . Coping actual header of other running Aleste's MSX2 soft... (kings valley...)


>>>>Q: But MSX software had to be patched to work on Aleste, isn't it?
A: No. If the program doesn't directly call hardware, it will work well. Such things as archivers, compillers, command.com, msxdos.sys or VFY (disk verifier) worked without changes. When we adapted MSX DOS we took many command line tools from MSX DOS. The most difficult thing was rebuilding the MSX disk ROM because MSX uses different FD controller.
Q: And how did you loaded MSX cartridge dumps? (it was possible, if I am not wrong?)
A: Cartridges were not popular at Russia.

Q: But the games you had were cartridge dumps, isn't it? King's Valley is a cartridge game, and you had the game... I suppose you had a .bin file which was a dump of the EPROM of the cartridge, is it right?
A: Right, games were cartridge dumps. But we only got five or six games for MSX (and all of them were MSX 2 games), so we changed game's code. All this MSX games have a little BIOS at first 2KB and a little loader. We replaced both the BIOS and the loader by ours.<<<<<<


Sorry but msx games need to be heavily modified to be used on the aleste, they are only 2 games that are modified at the moment castlevania and another one.

Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: TotO on 18:35, 04 April 22
I think that by redoing the Aleste 520 PCB, it was more clever to install the MSX2 VDP on the board design.
Title: Re: building the aleste 520ex (cpc/msx russian clone)
Post by: kawickboy on 22:37, 10 April 22
There is no information about the 3rd MSXVR batch yet.
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