Author Topic: chained joysticks en cpc+?  (Read 6550 times)

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Offline dragon

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chained joysticks en cpc+?
« on: 00:07, 05 October 10 »
I have a cable to connect 2 joysticks. in cpc 464 or 6128.

And I have 3 joysticks. (1 pad cpc plus) 1 (pad megadrive adapted) (1 quickjoy 3)

I see in arnold especification.




JOYSTICK 1:9 way male D. Joystick 2 can be daisy chained
1Up6Fire 2
2Down7Fire 1
3Left8Common
4Right9Common (joystick 2)
5N.C.
I try to coneect the 3 joysticks with the cable(to play rampage),but not works. the cpc ignores both.

So the cpc plus  need a other cable different that normal cpc?



The cable works fine in normal cpc(it¡s a professional cable.So I do not know how it is connected internally).




Offline TFM

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #1 on: 04:36, 05 October 10 »
The Plus has diodes at the joystick port. But you have two ports for two joysticks. More than 2 isn't possible.
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Offline MacDeath

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #2 on: 10:34, 05 October 10 »
The PLUS actually already include a Y-cable (if I remember well)...explaining the 2 Joy ports.

I you want to get more joysticks, you can theorically use the Analog Port to add 2 more joysticks...
But perhaps only one Software manage this Analog Joystick (Tennis Cup2) and finding compatible Analog Joysticks is not that easy.

And it can't work on the CPC (old) as it doesn't feature Analog port.


BTW Rampage only enable 2 joysticks+1 Keyboard or 2 Keyboards+1Joystick ... or other way are possible ?


On the other hand you can achieve a 6 button Joystick by rewiring some modern paddle (Playstation perhaps) so it is 2 joystick in one...
2x4 directions and 2-4 Fire Button...(2 actually)

But same problem, no game manage this configuration of gameplay.

To bad, a Gryzor/Midnight Resistance game could... or some sort of Commando/Ikari Warriors or Cabal games...Wizball too perhaps.
But this would not enable co-op games unless you use a PLUS (Analog port, Keyboard too perhaps) or Networking multiple Amstrads...(lol)






Offline Bryce

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #3 on: 11:22, 05 October 10 »
Chaining Joysticks (using a JY2) is the same as using a 2 Joystick adapter (the one with diodes), you can't use two chained josticks on the adapter with another joystick in the adapter for a total of three. The second joystick in the chain will be parallel to the single joystick in the adapter.

Either way, if it's a plus you're using, I don't think the adapter will work at all, because you'll have two sets of diodes in series and the voltage drop is probably too high, so no signal gets to the asic.

Bryce.

Offline TFM

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #4 on: 23:56, 05 October 10 »
The PLUS actually already include a Y-cable (if I remember well)...explaining the 2 Joy ports.

I you want to get more joysticks, you can theorically use the Analog Port to add 2 more joysticks...
But perhaps only one Software manage this Analog Joystick (Tennis Cup2) ...

... and FutureOS, which is nice to use in an analogue way  ;)
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Offline dragon

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #5 on: 00:27, 06 October 10 »
Quote
Chaining Joysticks (using a JY2) is the same as using a 2 Joystick   adapter (the one with diodes), you can't use two chained josticks on the   adapter with another joystick in the adapter for a total of three. The   second joystick in the chain will be parallel to the single joystick in   the adapter.

Either way, if it's a plus you're using, I don't   think the adapter will work at all, because you'll have two sets of   diodes in series and the voltage drop is probably too high, so no signal   gets to the asic.

yep not work :) sniff.

Offline steve

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #6 on: 01:58, 06 October 10 »
here's an idea for a control interface for simulators.

The four analogue channels are connected to potentiometers attached to 3 foot pedals and a steering wheel.
The digital joystick ports could be connected to up to 12 pushbuttons or lever switches.

These controls could be built into a car or aircraft simulator, the digital joystick port might also control 3 motors to move the simulator.

It would of course need software specially written for it and that may be a challenge that someone could find interesting.

Put the software on a cartridge and have the simulator driven by a gx4000.
« Last Edit: 02:01, 06 October 10 by steve »

Offline steve

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #7 on: 02:49, 06 October 10 »
Here's a relatively simple racing simulator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8Lu3s4o8UE&feature=related

You may think the gx4000 is not powerful enough, but that's the challenge, if necessary use two gx4000's networked through a digital joystick port. 8)
« Last Edit: 02:54, 06 October 10 by steve »

Offline Xyphoe

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #8 on: 09:40, 06 October 10 »
Can any other games use an analog joystick apart from Tennis Cup 2?

Offline arnoldemu

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #9 on: 12:00, 06 October 10 »
Can any other games use an analog joystick apart from Tennis Cup 2?
No other games have been written to use it.
FutureOS does support it.
I now have one joystick that will work and do plan to support it in my future games.
(I have a second that may work, but I think I will have to disable autofire on this one )
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Offline MacDeath

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #10 on: 15:06, 06 October 10 »
The point is : please if anyone is to do a GX4000/PLUS game : enable Analog Joy !




Concerning the GX4000 simulator ... er... netlinking 2 GX4000 with Joystick ? lol U mad... is this even possible ?

http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Analog_Joysticks
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Connector:Analogue_joystick_%28CPC_Plus_only%29

Ok so it seems 2 models are confirmed to be GX4000 compatible... the Sinclair and the Amstrad.

Amstrad Analogue Joystick AJ-5
& Sinclair SPJ-1

So I should get my hand on one of those, but hey, they must be quite rare actually..

PC200 or PC20 from Amstrad/Sinclair are rare computers and sought after by collectionners...


Some tutorial to convert old PC Analog Joys by re-wiring them could be handy...

Also I heard the Analog Joy port was supposed to be connected to a special Y-adapter so 2 joysticks could be plugged...were those suposed to be digital or analog ones ?

Also heard the 2 digital joys from CPC/PLUS could suffer from common fire button... each controller conflicting with the other...what about this issue ?
This can be bypassed by the use of an analog joy then.

So yeah, lot of custom stuff could be done with the PLUS' controllers... would just need some tutorials and to input those into the games/softwares...


Simulators : I have found memory of Microprose Gunship on CPC...
Perhaps a PLUS equivalent with some use of hardsprites (Targeting) may be greeat...
Fighter Bomber looked awesome too, perhaps a bit sluggish? (I played it on my EGA 12mhz 286PC... was great)

Also it may actually be possible to get some sort of mouse or Keyboard using the Analog port... perhaps more limited than a normal keyboard but hey, better than nothing.
If only GX4000 got a real extension port !
« Last Edit: 15:22, 06 October 10 by MacDeath »

Offline steve

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #11 on: 16:25, 06 October 10 »

Concerning the GX4000 simulator ... er... netlinking 2 GX4000 with Joystick ? lol U mad... is this even possible ?


2 gx4000's might only be necessary on simulators with motion controlled pilot seat, and communication between the two gx4000's would be very simple.

1 gx4000 runs the simulation and generates the video display, the second gx4000 accepts input from the controls, moves the pilot seat accordingly and relays the joystick outputs to the first gx4000 so the second gx4000 looks like 2 or 4 joysticks to the first gx4000, which is what the program would be expecting, although the 2nd gx4000 might need to be a 464 with expansion connector so that 4 dac's can generate the analogue signals that the first gx4000 can read.

A simple racing simulator could be made with 1 gx4000 running burning rubber, a steering wheel would send left/right commands to the digital joystick port one, a foot pedal would send the up command and another pushbutton would change gears.

But a much more realistic simulator would need the software to be modified or written from scratch.

Offline steve

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #12 on: 17:28, 06 October 10 »
If anybody wants to build their own analogue joystick, there are hundreds of replacement analog joysticks for the psp1000 for about £2 each on ebay, now maybe there are so many replacements listed because they keep breaking, but they are cheap enough if you want to try it.

Offline TFM

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #13 on: 20:53, 06 October 10 »
Well, the use of the analogue joystick makes sense only for a subset of games. Let's keep that in mind.
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Offline arnoldemu

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #14 on: 11:24, 07 October 10 »
Well, the use of the analogue joystick makes sense only for a subset of games. Let's keep that in mind.
true, but if used as a second digital joystick, it avoids possible keyboard clash and then makes sense in 2 player games.
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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #15 on: 09:14, 08 October 10 »
:) linking two Gx4000 by joystick! I've seen this idea on atariage too, a guy want to recreate missile command for two players, with each player on his own screen.

I got an idea too, but I'm not engineer so I just can't do it, would it be possible to command an universal DVDplayer remote with joystick. Could be useful for... make a dragon's lair or to have awesome cinematic linked to the game you are playing!

Of course it will required two screens next to each other or not? I can't remember if there was Genlock for Amstrad...

sorry to be off topic!


Offline Bryce

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #16 on: 11:23, 08 October 10 »
Regarding controlling simulator motors and other things with the analogue port: It won't work, the analogue port is input only, you can't output analogue values to control or communicate with the outside world.

Bryce.
« Last Edit: 13:35, 08 October 10 by Bryce »

Offline jbaudrand

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #17 on: 13:06, 08 October 10 »
:) but still possible with classic one?

Offline steve

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #18 on: 13:23, 08 October 10 »
Regarding controlling simulator motors and other things with the analogue port: It won't work, the analogue prot is input only, you can't output analogue values to control or communicate with the outside world.

Bryce.

Yes, my idea was to use the analogue ports to read the positions of 3 foot pedals and the steering wheel, controlling motors was an after thought and would be achieved with the digital joystick ports for on/off control or maybe pulses for stepper motors or servos, but I don't seriously expect anyone to go that far even with 2 gx4000's ;D

Offline steve

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #19 on: 13:28, 08 October 10 »


I got an idea too, but I'm not engineer so I just can't do it, would it be possible to command an universal DVDplayer remote with joystick. Could be useful for... make a dragon's lair or to have awesome cinematic linked to the game you are playing!

Of course it will required two screens next to each other or not? I can't remember if there was Genlock for Amstrad...

sorry to be off topic!

That is an excellent idea which would give the simulator a much more realistic display.

Offline Bryce

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #20 on: 13:45, 08 October 10 »
Technically, I think it's possible to use the digital joystick pins as outputs, but it would mean reprogramming the ASIC and the AY-8912. I've no idea how to do either, so I can't really comment on how easy that would be, but it would also make the keyboard unusable, because they both use the same port. Pressing a key would also send signals to the motors causing unwanted movement. I doubt it would be practical to implement. Connecting motor control and DVD control would be much easier through the printer or expansion port.

Bryce.

Offline TFM

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #21 on: 20:09, 08 October 10 »
Linking CPCs? Why don't use the VN96 network? It runs well, costs 2 or 3 Euros each card and leaves the joystick port free (important for gaming  ;) ). There are already some multiplayer games, so take a look at the VN96 network for the CPC:
 
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Virtual_Net_96
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Offline steve

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #22 on: 21:27, 08 October 10 »
It does not actually say, but if this network attaches to the printer port, the gx4000 does not have one and this exchange was about linking two gx4000's if necessary.

Offline TFM

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #23 on: 21:41, 08 October 10 »
Right, it uses printer ports, so indeed it can't be used for the GX4000 (without hardware addon).
But why using GX4000, you can take the 6128 or CPC Plus. For the GX4000 there is probably really only the joystick port left - or... you just use the Lightphaser port ;-)
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Offline steve

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Re: chained joysticks en cpc+?
« Reply #24 on: 22:13, 08 October 10 »
For a simulator you do not need a keyboard or disk/cassette or printer port, so the gx4000 with 512KB cartridge, if you choose to write you own software, is the best choice.