CPC-SID

[redbox]

Surely agreed, but like I've understood: the Caprice with SID emulation is just there to allow us to code software in parallel to the developpment of the hardware. 

No, I meant in regards to SwinSID vs. New SID project - I'd rather have a real SID chip, preferably one taken from a C64 so it doesn't have it anymore 

[68k-dude]

@redbox

Awesome.  I truly laughed out loud.

Anyway, I've just taken one out of a C64.  It is going into the mix.

[TFM]

You guys are hilarious 

[DaDMaN]

.

[TFM]

Nobody mentioned your SID project here, and nobody mentioned that SwinSID here. You brought the topic up. And it's not topic here. But maybe you did read the topic wrong, maybe it's due to your poor English dude 

[DaDMaN]

.

[Ygdrazil]

Hi there!


Interesting project! Just curious as I know zero about the technical side of SID programming! How much frametime would it take to play an "avarage" SID tune on the Z80 (CPC)?


/Ygdrazil

[DaDMaN]

Hi there!


Interesting project! Just curious as I know zero about the technical side of SID programming! How much frametime would it take to play an "avarage" SID tune on the Z80 (CPC)?


/Ygdrazil

Over 100% CPU time probably. To play directly SID files recorded from Commodore machines we need to emulate the 6510 CPU and C64 environment (RAM status, variables, CPU registers, etc). SID files are snapshots from C64 status including the original player coded in 6510 assembler. But  play custom music designed for a custom player for Amstrad CPC and Z80 CPU must be faster than play tunes for our AY chip. SID chip will be connected directly to the expansion BUS and can be fastly accesed. AY in Amstrad CPC is connected to PPI and we need more instructions to access it.

[Badstarr]

Yikes! well if this conversation has calmed down I have been looking at the signal chain arrangement in the SID and unless the diagram is wrong or I missed something (entirely possible after having just woken up after a 12 hour night shift) it seems that the frequency modulation of the signal sent to the EXT in pin of the SID is not possible. However OSC 3 can Modulate the frequency of OSC 1 So FM Synthesis is possible based on a quick skim through the documentation. I will read more thoroughly when I'm fully conscious. Anyway here is the diagram...


Link---
File:SID Block Diagram.PNG - WFFwiki






I could have interpreted this incorrectly, however if not the AY output signal can still be filtered and it's gain attenuated so at least AM Synthesis from this signal is possible, to produce ring modulation an other interesting effects.


AD converters look interesting! It depends on what these can cope with but they could be very handy indeed if they pass through the oscillators.

[TFM]

Interesting project! Just curious as I know zero about the technical side of SID programming! How much frametime would it take to play an "avarage" SID tune on the Z80 (CPC)?

Regarding the Stereo-SID idea from Bryce it would take less than 10% of the CPU time. Even if you transfer sound-data on every interrupt (300 times a scond) it wouldn't be more.

For a programm it doesn't matter if you transfer data for a dozend registers to the AY or SID, it's just I/O.

In case you want to play sound samples, it would need the most of the CPU time. I don't know the SID in this regard, but I assume that it will be roughly the same than with the AY.

[steve]

@DaDMaN, Thank you for any help you can give to bryce to get the SIDchip working on the CPC.

@Badstarr, I wish I could get a job where they let me sleep for 12 hrs .

[Badstarr]

@Badstarr, I wish I could get a job where they let me sleep for 12 hrs   .

Lol! If only I had 12 hrs sleep, unfortunately the shift is the 12hrs part 12 1/2 to be exact I'm lucky if I get 6 hrs sleep :-(

[MaV]

Ooooh!

Four days away from home, and there's real talk about a SID extension for the CPC!!!   

GREAT!

[robcfg]

I was thinking about how much time would take to play music on the sid, and obviously if you try to play a .SID file as is, you'll need to emulate the c64 itself which is quite a waste of time.


So the ideal would be to convert the .SID files to something more like .YM files but with support for the two sids. I think that means taking a c64 emulator and trapping the calls to the SID chip, and then save them all to disk.


Of course everybody is welcome to program a tracker with support for the AY+2Sids 

Yes, my/our project was mentioned here and you doesn't read all the thread. And of course you don't know the history. Maybe you don't care people uses your work without mention you as they would did all the work without your participation? Maybe you feel better insulting me having no idea what you are talking about?

I thought you were in charge of the hardware side, not the software as this is Syx's area of expertise. That said, your idea is not original, as it has been attempted in the past, and you don't do software, so I don't see how could possibly be Syx stealing nothing from you.


So, please, any personal disputes, just discuss them in private and don't bring that kind of useless arguments to the forum.


@Syx: Hey mate, don't get mad, you know we love Bryce's quality hardware and Syx's quality software 

[TFM]

Hi RobCFG,

Well, we would need SID songs in a kind of Starkos format. And I'm sure that the c64 world has something similar to the Arkos tracker, so it shouldn't be hard to patch such an application (if one can get the sources). 

[OCT]

my entire Synthesis experience was going to a Jean Michel Jarre Concert back in the 80's

I was thinking maybe an Oxygene tribute could be a good way to showcase the abilities of this project!     

Ooh, Tangerine Dream; now there's a guy who knows his music...

White Clouds. While we're at it, (the remnants of) Kraftwerk are having more of their "last" gigs in Munich on the 12th-14th, followed by a 1-month 3D exhibition celebrating their work(s) in Lenbachhaus Kunstbau.

No one was talking about adapting SID to CPC until today (no in public).

Actually we were talking much earlier http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=1153.msg26224#msg26224 about having seen other people's hardware implementation published decades before, just trying to pinpoint the location (which isn't easy for mags that never went digital for back issues at least, which few of us could afford back in the day, and often had to read on store shelves in the pre-Internet era).

[khisanth]

am a HUGE SID fan, so am following this with great interest.

Someone has recently hooked up a SID to a BBC micro and got it running. very impressive

[RockRiver]

Very interesting ideas coming from all of you.
I'm musician interested in *.MID files; AY/YM/AYC files...; tracker files and NOW *.sid files (and interface) to our CPCs.
Thanks All !!! for thinking about new interfaces for the CPC (maybe music ones)

[TFM]

Please Syx and Dad you were a good developer and researcher team from CPC scene... we need both of you... calm down friends.

They *are* calm since some time, I just hope that you don't pour gas in a fire that was on its way to go out. So please, let's focus on topic here and exclusively on the topic! And the topic is that thing to be seen in the very first post - and nothing else. This is IMHO the only way to keep it productive and peaceful. Don't wake sleeping dogs we say where I come from.

[MacDeath]

what about the additional sound chips on advanced MSX ?

Can't we get them too working on CPC ?

[emuola]

what about the additional sound chips on advanced MSX ?

Can't we get them too working on CPC ?

Moonsound would be cool
http://www.faq.msxnet.org/opl4.html

[RockRiver]

MSX chips are "Yamaha family" ones...see: http://www.bgmsx.com/?contenido_servicio_tabla=computer_chips   But they want more...http://supersoniqs.com/projects/    I feel healthy envy and my CPC too.   And if you don't know the work of ValleyBell with *.VGM files and sound chip emulation visit:http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=2

*Some of these are considered new standards of CPC sound?: http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Peripherals#Synthesizer.2C_sampler_and_music_related
Maybe CPCBooster or DigiBlaster ?? And FuturePlayer from Dr.Zed are discontinued I think.

*Then SID chip will be OK and some "new" Yamaha too. Existing AY music and games throught this future interfaces? Yeahhh!!!!!

[TFM]

*Some of these are considered new standards of CPC sound?: http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Peripherals#Synthesizer.2C_sampler_and_music_related
Maybe CPCBooster or DigiBlaster ?? And FuturePlayer from Dr.Zed are discontinued I think.

Ok, these are all different from a sound-chip. But in detail:

- CPCBooster: Still supported from Antitec, maybe you can buy one also. Good for sampling and playing 8 bit samples (stereo)

- DigiBlaster: Cheap (5 Bucks) and easy to make (it's just a bunch of resistors). Good for playing 8 bit samples (mono).

- FuturePlayer: Discontinued. Good for playing MP3's in stereo, 128 kbps works. (Never tried more kbps).
  Reason for being discontinued. Was supposed to become a part of the SF-3 card (which exists as prototype, not more).

My idea: Let's make a MP3 player, the easy way.
The topic here: SID ;-)

-- End of line --

[Bryce]

A z80 could never decode and play an MP3 at any reasonable bitrate could it?

Bryce.

[TotO]

My idea: Let's make a MP3 player, the easy way.

The easy way is to interface an Audio Module to the LPT port and sending bits to command :
PLAY/STOP/PREV/NEXT/VOL+/VOL- (like PCE Super CD-ROM)

Easy to program an audio player without wasting CPU time or adding ingame background musics & keep AY for full SFX!
Easy to build... Just need a dauther board to plug it, rooting bit lines and doing audio mixing. (may be a power supply connector?)

DC5V operating version : (19$ = 14€ today)
http://www.emartee.com/product/41816/USB%20SD%20MP3%20Sound%20Module

Datasheet :
http://www.emartee.com/Attachment.php?name=41816.pdf





So YES, it's not SID... But it's better for the CPC.