MSX, Colecovision, Sega games on CPC

[zhulien]

Seems quite a lot of ports between the 3 mentioned computers recently because they all share the same graphics cards and some the same soundchips.  For colecovision they even have an AY sound card to make porting easier.

What is the easiest solution for CPC?

A new mx4 card with msx graphics and sound chips?  Or a software solution for plus machines and v9990 which would likely need some type of graphics emulation in software.

I'm thinking even if software solution is possible it will never be as good as a hardware one.

If the graphics chip was taken from SMS, then maybe SMS games could also be ported?

Any thoughts?

[andycadley]

What would be the point? If you have to add on so much hardware to make you CPC into a Master System and play Master System games on it, why not just get a Master System?

Ports/Conversions back in the day were interesting purely because they had to be adapted to suit the target hardware. Once it's the exact same version, it's doesn't really make a lot of sense.

[zhulien]

It does. My 2nd computer after I got a cpc was a sega.  I still have it and it gets various ports... some are cool games that were never on a cpc and if they are easy to adapt why not?  You wouldn't want more games to play that weren't previously released on cpc?  I don't know how difficult an sms chip would be to put in a cpc card but I suggest that because sms are plentiful and they are backward compatible to sega computers.

[abalore]

I find more interesting to actually port the games that are good to have in the CPC, adapting them to the CPC hardware. MSX, Colecovision, Sega games could be a good source of ideas.

[andycadley]

I find more interesting to actually port the games that are good to have in the CPC, adapting them to the CPC hardware. MSX, Colecovision, Sega games could be a good source of ideas.

Exactly. If you just end up running the SMS version on, effectively, SMS hardware then you haven't really gained anything.

On the other hand, if it becomes a CPC (or GX4000) version of a great SMS game, adapted to the hardware then you at least end up with something you couldn't just play on an SMS today.

[zhulien]

I wonder if you have ever in your entire life bought a video card for a computer so you could play a game.

[andycadley]

I wonder if you have ever in your entire life bought a video card for a computer so you could play a game.

Sure, but the only way you make playing SMS games viable is attaching all the hardware from an SMS. And why stop there? You might as well sellotape an Amiga or a MegaDrive onto your CPC. None of them is "playing the game on the CPC"

[Prodatron]

If you have to add on so much hardware to make you CPC into a Master System and play Master System games on it, why not just get a Master System?

It's funny, but on the MSX they did exactly this

https://shop.supersoniqs.com/en/home/74-playsoniq.html
https://www.msx.org/wiki/SuperSoniqs_PlaySoniq

With the Playsoniq you can fully transform your MSX to an SMS (and even more, e.g. it has a SID as well).

[poulette73]

But is it still really an MSX (with external hardware PSG, FGPA, etc.)? Or in our case here, it still remains a CPC ?
For me no, absolutely not at all.

I don't see any interest in it...  Might as well buy a Sega Master System to play exactly the Sega Master System games.

Like @abalore, it's still more commendable and interesting to port the game to CPC, with CPC hardware.
Especially since there's a choice of good games in the Master System software library or other equivalent 8-bit platforms. 👍

[zhulien]

I wonder if you have ever in your entire life bought a video card for a computer so you could play a game.

Sure, but the only way you make playing SMS games viable is attaching all the hardware from an SMS. And why stop there? You might as well sellotape an Amiga or a MegaDrive onto your CPC. None of them is "playing the game on the CPC"

Actually that is a fantastic idea? Anyone want to make a justcpc hybrid amiga board which fits into a amiga 500 or 6128plus case?

[zhulien]

Come on... Amstrad CPC has an expansion bus, it is designed to be expanded.  Just like most other computers. Windows PCs have 3DO blaster, Applebee's and some other older CPM cards that are hard to get. Amiga had Bridgeboards, MSX has SMS card, there is nothing wrong with this... just because one computer can pretend do be another, or a console... doesn't make them no longer the original computer..  thats just daft.  Nobody forces others to buy hardware or software, so why should someone who doesn't want to buy a particular thing not want others to?  You want everyone in the world to be like you? I.e. clones of you?  

[eto]

, there is nothing wrong with this...

Successful hardware expansions need

- an idea (✔)
- a use case that has a direct advantage for their owners - potential advantage is not enough ( )
- long term availability of it's components ( )
- acceptable price ( )

It would make it more appealing to others I guess, if you do not only request others to do the work but actually show that you are willing to support this, e.g. with some research, before they invest LOTS of their time and money into developing it: 

1) Availability and pricing of main parts - will it be feasible to produce such a card in large quantities for several years? What are the suppliers? What would be the price range?

2) What would the potential software library look like? What games/applications are available in source code and could be adapted easily? Examples for at least a few games/apps which an be easily adapted. A theoretical library of games that need reverse engineering would not be sufficient, as reverse engineering and modifying games to run on an otherwise totally different platform is incredibly hard and time consuming. This will not be the first releases if such a card exists.

Once the information is there, a poll could show if this becomes interesting.

Maybe also add what would you personally be willing to invest into this in time, money and/or material to make this happen? E.g. which software would you adapt? Would you be willing to write the drivers/libraries so the hardware developer can focus on the hardware? 

[andycadley]

It's more a question of "What is the benefit?" Because if it's just "now I can play SMS games" then there wasn't really any benefit over just getting an SMS in the first place.

Is it really viable to integrate all the hardware such that the SMS video output goes to the CPC monitor, can be used from BASIC etc? Does it offer tangible benefits for developers that just coding directly for the SMS doesn't?

[poulette73]

Nobody forces others to buy hardware or software, so why should someone who doesn't want to buy a particular thing not want others to?  You want everyone in the world to be like you? I.e. clones of you? 

But absolutely not! That was never my words...

I just gave my opinion. We are on a discussion forum, aren't we? We have the right to have different opinions, right? It works both ways.

It's not because you are convinced of your idea that it must be universal in the eyes of all.

Now have fun ! You can buy whatever you want.
So buy externals FGPA/PSG/Soundchips cards/CPU boards/etc. and transform your CPC into a Master System, Super Nintendo, Playstation 1, Xbox 360, or whatever you could dream of...

But don't just say afterwards that it's still a CPC. 

[HAL6128]

Come on... Amstrad CPC has an expansion bus, it is designed to be expanded.   

Absolutely agreed! There'a purpose for the expansion bus.

And it has already been done!

For example: with a Mass-Storage, M4 or RSF3-Wifi-board, RAM expansions, a V9990 (GrafX) and a Willy (OPL2/OPL3) or a OPL4 Sound-board attached - which is possible and available today - you can transform your CPC into a far more powerful system than before. Look a SymbOS, there's a software already uses these capabilities. And the core is still a CPC/Z80A. 
The M4 board is already driven by a lot of more support OSs.
And with the CPCLink board you are able to enhance the CPC/Z80A possibilities (speed of calculations) with the help of a e.g. Raspberry Pi Zero.
We have the PlayCity with plus 6 Channels of sound and enhanced interrupt possibilities. LambdaSpeak&Sid&Midi boards. Cartdrige-Systems like Play2CPC, Plus2CPC or the Dandanator.

Everything is already here!!
...but almost no programmer...

[zhulien]

On ebay there are spectrum to rc2014 bus adapters.  There are also these msx software compatible graphics cards for rc2014

https://www.tindie.com/stores/dinotron/

Perhaps these cards can work on CPC too if someone makes an mx4 to rc2014 adapter, or an rc2014 4 slot board that can plug in behind the mx4 board.

[GUNHED]

And at the end please don't forget LambdaMikels expansion LambdaSpeak, which can speak or sing (in so many ways), play Samples and MP3 songs and much more. Enjoy it! 

[Prodatron]

if someone makes

Constantly sharing dreams may be a nice hobby for some people, but it usually doesn't bring results. It's better to produce something. Sharing a finished product with the scene is much nicer.

[zhulien]

if someone makes

Constantly sharing dreams may be a nice hobby for some people, but it usually doesn't bring results. It's better to produce something. Sharing a finished product with the scene is much nicer

8bml protocol and SDK has been shared for several years but not a lot of interest.

[GUNHED]

That's a general problem - I'm afraid.