Any thoughts on this https://auamstrad.es/des/ (https://auamstrad.es/des/) ?
I found the link via a Tweet yesterday from Batman Group but don't recall any conversation or mention of the device here. While the above site is in Spanish online translation tools help those of us who can't speak the language.
Have to say whilst I like the concept I'm aware that Toto had come up with something similar but it didn't get produced. However in a world with both the M4 and XMEM boards how does this fit? Those can provide a facility to boot alternative start up ROMs. How does this differ and is there a market for it? Once purchased the carts would certainly be cheaper!
The DanDanator is not intended as an expansion for the CPC, it's a way of distributing new titles in an affordable way.
Dandare , the creator of this device is registered here, and the evolution of the device has been discussed here: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/cpc-dandanator-mini-1-0-wip/
Official web page here: http://www.dandare.es/Proyectos_Dandare/CPC_Dandanator%21_Mini.html
This looks like a refinement of the original Dandanator design, and its goal seems to be the same: to make physical releases less painful/cheaper.
It seems they've separated the roms from the rest of the circuitry, transforming the dandanator in a cartridge slot. Game cartridges use the Gameboy Advance form factor, which I think is a very good choice (cases are still in production and are dirt cheap).
They also mention improved CPC+ compatibility. I didn't even know Dandanator had problems with the plus series :confused:
Seems a good idea to me... anything that reduces the cost of releasing homebrew can only help things, and with even CPC edge connectors getting rare (as well as incompatibility between CPC edge, and CPC+ centronics) this looks like a solution that could help get more games out there on physical releases at lower cost.
Reminds me of the Aladdin Deck enhancer!... yikes!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aladdin_Deck_Enhancer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aladdin_Deck_Enhancer)
Oh, I love the FDD label style here... how cute!
https://auamstrad.es/2019/06/compact-rom-cartridge-para-des/ (https://auamstrad.es/2019/06/compact-rom-cartridge-para-des/)
Quote from: keith56 on 08:04, 25 August 19
Seems a good idea to me... anything that reduces the cost of releasing homebrew can only help things, and with even CPC edge connectors getting rare (as well as incompatibility between CPC edge, and CPC+ centronics) this looks like a solution that could help get more games out there on physical releases at lower cost.
Agreed. This is a great idea for physical releases of games. Cost is an important point with that and it addresses the issue of a lack of 3inch disks etc. However with a proliferation of M4 devices in particular and the XMEM that could achieve similar how does it fit for those that don't buy physical releases? Are sections of the community going to loose out on releases?
Quote from: Maniac on 08:17, 25 August 19
Agreed. This is a great idea for physical releases of games. Cost is an important point with that and it addresses the issue of a lack of 3inch disks etc. However with a proliferation of M4 devices in particular and the XMEM that could achieve similar how does it fit for those that don't buy physical releases? Are sections of the community going to loose out of releases?
I can only speak for myself, but my games are and always will be free to download; even if that means that people won't buy the physical editions (and it happens, sometimes is a bit disappointing how games perform compared to other platforms).
I like the idea and they have my full support, but this is a difficult one because it is an add-on that you need to acquire in order to buy new releases.
In my case, you can always get my games for free and play them in your M4; but if you want the physical release you can get the cassette and enjoy the box, poster, manual, etc.
You could say that you love the experience of loading the game from physical media, but if you use the DES (IMHO the name isn't great!), is not that different from using your M4.
If there are new games worth a physical release and the authors are keen to give this a go, I'd love to see something like a starter pack, so you get the add-on and a couple of good games for a good price. If the add-on is not widespread, it won't succeed.
My 2 cents.
Quote from: Maniac on 21:33, 24 August 19
Have to say whilst I like the concept I'm aware that Toto had come up with something similar but it didn't get produced. However in a world with both the M4 and XMEM boards how does this fit? Those can provide a facility to boot alternative start up ROMs. How does this differ and is there a market for it? Once purchased the carts would certainly be cheaper!
If it is for cheap distribution of physicla media, then I doubt it would be cheaper than distributing it on a 1GB microSD card, which is less than $2. (with M4 you could have upto 768 KB of ROM, autoboot etc).
Quote from: Duke on 10:31, 25 August 19
If it is for cheap distribution of physicla media, then I doubt it would be cheaper than distributing it on a 1GB microSD card, which is less than $2. (with M4 you could have upto 768 KB of ROM, autoboot etc).
I think they tried to find s balance between convenience and still support physical releases. Would you buy a box with manual and stuff with a micro SD? May be if that's the only way of playing the game, but taking into account that retro aficionados usually don't respect copyright... there will be distribution
Not sure what is the answer. This sounds better to me than the dandanator, as in you won't be plugin in and out stuff to your CPC directly.
Edit: actually, if we look at what is used in modern gaming, physical media is not that much a thing. Online market for the CPC? A bit like the java cpc database for the real CPC, with a "name your one price" like itch.io does.
Quote from: reidrac on 11:28, 25 August 19
I think they tried to find s balance between convenience and still support physical releases. Would you buy a box with manual and stuff with a micro SD? May be if that's the only way of playing the game, but taking into account that retro aficionados usually don't respect copyright... there will be distribution
Not sure what is the answer. This sounds better to me than the dandanator, as in you won't be plugin in and out stuff to your CPC directly.
Well, there are certainly commerical interests behind this project... after all, the company making and investing in game devlopment wants to make some profit.
And it seems that there is some market for this business model, given they have been quite successful with the previous release of Repoker the Asses Dendanator cartridge.
If it sells and people are into cartridges, why not. Not everything has to be for free.
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 20:30, 25 August 19
Well, there are certainly commerical interests behind this project... after all, the company making and investing in game devlopment wants to make some profit.
And it seems that there is some market for this business model, given they have been quite successful with the previous release of Repoker the Asses Dendanator cartridge.
If it sells and people are into cartridges, why not. Not everything has to be for free.
Considering the number of hours I put on a game, I can tell you there's no business here.
Dawn of Kernel had around 60 pre-orders in all formats combined, and that's without requiring any add-on in order to play the game. And those numbers are nothing; may be pizza money considering the cost of producing the physical edition.
How many units do they need to sell of this add-on so making games for it is really worth it?
Quote from: reidrac on 21:08, 25 August 19
How many units do they need to sell of this add-on so making games for it is really worth it?
That depends on so many factors: production costs, price of the unit, batch size for production, ...
If you account for the development time, then it is very hard to break even for any serious CPC (+) project, as you point out... For hardware the situation is worse, since delivering the product still costs you, unlike software which can simply be copied. (Cartridges being the exception).
I am wondering if they made any profit on the Repoker de Asses cartridge, and if so, how much (not accounting for development costs).
I myself have not made a single dollar yet with my CPC hardware projects - the overall profit (even not accounting the development time!) is negative by a few hundred dollars at least ;D
Hello,
I am one of the members of the AUA Club and I am in charge of communication of the Dandanator Entertainment System.
I am going to try to explain briefly what the DES project is about and what the current state of development is.
DES is based on an original idea from Dandare, his Dandanator CPC! Mini.
The technical features are the ones related to the system from which it comes, all of them can be found on the author's website: www.dandare.es
As specific features of the system, it is important to point out the modification of the flash memory into a cartridge, so as you have well observed, this reduces the cost of the game.
Includes an inserted cartridge detection. If it is not inserted, it is disabled and the CPC can be used as usual.
Although DES's main purpose is to be an economic support for games in physical format, it is also interesting as a system to create your own compilations of games or programs.
The system includes a front connection suitable for an EDGE or CENTRONICS connection making it compatible with CPC and CPC+.
Like Dandanator CPC! Mini this will be a public domain project. Anyone who wants to can make their own games and distribute them, as well as the base system will be available for 3D printing.
The project is currently in the testing phase. We recently published a video hosted by Pablo Forcén Soler showing the system and how it Works (it will be translated into English as soon as possible).
Seeing the photos on that page (why Spanish only, guys?!), is there a line-up to be expected upon launch?
Also, what will be the cost of those cartridges?
Quote from: Gryzor on 13:46, 27 August 19
Seeing the photos on that page (why Spanish only, guys?!), is there a line-up to be expected upon launch?
Also, what will be the cost of those cartridges?
We will translate into english as soon as possible :)
Right now, we can't confirm questions such as the pricing or release date, because we are in the phase of testing the first units, and perhaps we will have to make some correction and improvements, to ensure we deliver the best product.we have a mailing list for the people interested, also Twitter and the official web (http://auamstrad.es/des), where we are reporting news about the project.
Apologies - I didn't mean the pricing itself; rather, the *cost* of the cartridges, since the major point of it is cheaper physical distribution. I've learned never to ask the price if the dev is not announcing one just yet :)
IMO, the DES specs are not as good as it could be for a game cartridges interface standard on CPC. It is just a ROM reader.
No game saves, no extra RAM, no extra AY (while Arkos Tracker 2 exist!!!), no extra controllers plugs, no raster interrupt ...
An open source project like this will only open the eBay market ... And "they" sold a million of multi-games piraty cartridges.
I really hope the specs will be revised before the release, for the best of CPC devs and users.
Quote from: Gryzor on 14:10, 27 August 19
Apologies - I didn't mean the pricing itself; rather, the *cost* of the cartridges, since the major point of it is cheaper physical distribution. I've learned never to ask the price if the dev is not announcing one just yet :)
Sorry, it was my fault, i didnt undestand you.
It is cheap, but we prefer dont talk about cost and prices yet, it is too early and we have too much work to finish before :)
thanks!
Quote from: TotO on 14:29, 27 August 19
No game saves, no extra RAM, no extra AY (while Arkos Tracker 2 exist!!!), no extra controllers plugs, no raster interrupt ...
Reminds me of something...
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gM9zJFPXFvg/UdHwdSrUGAI/AAAAAAAANpM/--qGlS9dHH8/s1280/IMG_0127.jpeg)
Interesting concept. Based on the flash chip used and assuming there's not much else on the board, I'm guessing the production cost of the carts could be as low as 3-4 euros each...
https://youtu.be/fQLzKOdCUHo (https://youtu.be/fQLzKOdCUHo)
with English subtitles
Does anyone know if these are standard GBA flashcarts or are they just the same formfactor?
Quote from: zhulien on 20:31, 28 October 22Does anyone know if these are standard GBA flashcarts or are they just the same formfactor?
They use the formfactor as GBA cartridge shells are easy to source and cheap. The PCB inside is completely different from a GBA cartridge.
I got one and it's pretty neat, but tbh, I don't think it's the way to go at all - there's already a period-correct Amstrad cart format that's reasonably cheap to produce and doesn't require any extra hardware if you have a Plus machine or GX4000. It's also really awkward to flash the carts, requiring simultaneous connection to both the Amstrad and a PC. That said, I wish them all the success in the world, anything like this that does well will benefit the community, even if we don't all agree on the direction.
Quote from: Cwiiis on 10:09, 30 October 22I got one and it's pretty neat, but tbh, I don't think it's the way to go at all - there's already a period-correct Amstrad cart format that's reasonably cheap to produce and doesn't require any extra hardware if you have a Plus machine or GX4000. It's also really awkward to flash the carts, requiring simultaneous connection to both the Amstrad and a PC. That said, I wish them all the success in the world, anything like this that does well will benefit the community, even if we don't all agree on the direction.
I agree, the DES is nice but not the way to follow. Amstrad has offered its own cartridge format and a standard ROM memory map that can allows all the systems from the CPC 464 to the GX4000 to share the same media. Today, it is easy to use a C4CPC on any CPC through the Plus2CPC / Play2CPC devices. That is one of the reasons I have never relased the CTC-AY (prototype) 10 years ago... It was too difficult and expensive to produce the Amstrad cartridge shells and not serious to offer a Mega Drive format instead.