Author Topic: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone [Available]  (Read 20285 times)

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Offline talrek

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Dk'tronics mouse interface clone [Available]
« on: 17:43, 22 November 15 »
UPDATE 23/12/2015
9 pieces available see pics and video below on post.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/y5EzICIv7Fs[/youtube]

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Hi,
I decided to make a new topic for the DK'tronics Mouse interface.
So i made the first prototype, you'll find the pictures attached.

Good news is the schematics i made from the original (thank you again Craigsbar for your gift  :) ) are alright.
bad news are :  i assumed the numbers on the PCB (8,4,3,2,1 and 6) near the DB9 port were the pin number ... Well it is not.
6 and 8 marks are ok, but 1-->3, 2-->4, 3-->1 and 4-->2 (the color of the wires on the picture of the cpcwiki helped me a lot)...

So it works, but i have now to order the PCB  ;D
Price wil be 30 euros without shipping.

Also, i'm a little disappointed, i thought the mouse would be more accurate with a Genius Mouse. It reacts almost the same as a PS/2 or USB mouse adapter.
Good news is that if you have a ST Mouse, it works well.

« Last Edit: 17:34, 23 December 15 by talrek »
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Offline dodogildo

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #1 on: 17:52, 22 November 15 »
I want one :)
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Offline arnoldemu

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #2 on: 18:32, 22 November 15 »
Also, i'm a little disappointed, i thought the mouse would be more accurate with a Genius Mouse. It reacts almost the same as a PS/2 or USB mouse adapter.
Good news is that if you have a ST Mouse, it works well.
I think the kempston could be more accurate, well at least it remembers the movement so you only need to read it once per frame.
It would be simpler to make than the symbiface 2 mouse hardware and the schematic can be worked out from the Spectrum one with small modifications for cpc.

Symbiface2 mouse hardware appears to capture and communicate with the ps/2 mouse and record data in a buffer to be given to the cpc when read.
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Offline ||C|-|E||

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #3 on: 22:10, 22 November 15 »
Of course, I want one!!  :D :D

Offline CraigsBar

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #4 on: 22:53, 22 November 15 »
I'd still rather have a symbiface 2 type mouse. I think I'll pass on this one as I have Bryce adaptors a symbiface 2.

Oh and I have yet to find my genius mouse as well!
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Offline TFM

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #5 on: 00:42, 23 November 15 »
Hmmm.... 30 Euros.... I could get an X-MEM for that price. Since my cash is limited a the moment I guess I can't afford it now.  :(
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Offline Bryce

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #6 on: 10:46, 23 November 15 »
Cool little layout. Pity about the pinout confusion. First rule of reverse engineering: Don't trust the PCB markings! :D

Bryce.
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Offline talrek

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #7 on: 11:14, 23 November 15 »
Cool little layout. Pity about the pinout confusion. First rule of reverse engineering: Don't trust the PCB markings! :D

Bryce.

Yes i confirm, first time and last time i make that mistake !
Also i didn't think that it will so long to reverse engineer, i thought it would be faster to do...
And i don't speak about solder these 4 close SMD Ics.. Soldering a MF2 clone, is a piece of cake.

Good news is my schematics and the Eagle files will be correct when i will publish it to the wiki. Btw who have the permission to modify Dk'tronics interface article ?

Hmmm.... 30 Euros.... I could get an X-MEM for that price. Since my cash is limited a the moment I guess I can't afford it now.  :(
I'm going to see what i can do, i'm going to order some parts in china, it should lower the costs. I order in France or Germany in most of case, but DB9 sockets are pretty expensive. When you buy it by 10 or 20 in china it is a lot cheaper..
I'll let you know... but the most expensive parts are : 4013 and 4047 in a SMD package...
« Last Edit: 11:22, 23 November 15 by talrek »
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Offline Bryce

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #8 on: 11:49, 23 November 15 »
Don't go over the top to try and reduce the price by a few cents. €30 is a perfectly reasonable price for this device. If it's too much for anyone, then they'll have to live without one, simple as that.

Bryce.
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Offline TotO

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #9 on: 12:49, 23 November 15 »
I order in France or Germany in most of case, but DB9 sockets are pretty expensive. When you buy it by 10 or 20 in china it is a lot cheaper.. I'll let you know... but the most expensive parts are : 4013 and 4047 in a SMD package...
For informations, on Reichelt.com (Germany) the 4013 IC cost 0.20€ and the 4047 IC cost 0.26€.
SubD-9 connectors cost 0.14€ each... Yes, your full parts list is more close to 5€ here.
I should order them with mine to save some shipping fees, if required.  ;)

€30 is a perfectly reasonable price for this device.
As you know, I not agree.  8)
Except if you conciderate the CPC to be not a hobby and OK to pay each games/tools some hundreds euros each...
 
« Last Edit: 12:59, 23 November 15 by TotO »
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Offline Bryce

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #10 on: 13:52, 23 November 15 »
For informations, on Reichelt.com (Germany) the 4013 IC cost 0.20€ and the 4047 IC cost 0.26€.
SubD-9 connectors cost 0.14€ each... Yes, your full parts list is more close to 5€ here.
I should order them with mine to save some shipping fees, if required.  ;)
As you know, I not agree.  8)
Except if you conciderate the CPC to be not a hobby and OK to pay each games/tools some hundreds euros each...

Yes, because you don't believe that a persons time and effort should be rewarded, but that's up to you.

Bryce.
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Offline TotO

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #11 on: 14:16, 23 November 15 »
There is a balance...
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Offline Bryce

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #12 on: 14:33, 23 November 15 »
Indeed. And in this case I believe €30 is a good balance.

Bryce.
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Offline TotO

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #13 on: 14:43, 23 November 15 »
Sure, I can imagine.
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Offline TFM

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #14 on: 17:12, 23 November 15 »
Based on my limited knowledge parts are less than 5 Euros in this case, so triple the price to compensate for some used time, then 15 Euros would be a total reasonable price. I never would ask for money which I put in a CPC project, because I do it because I like to do it. It's fun for me. But every person has his/her own motivation. And it's ok. I'm just getting annoyed by some suborn people who like to tell me what's right or wrong or what's reasonable or not. And as told: Please everybody do as you want.
In this case I will have to live without it and so FutureOS and my games will. I would have liked to add support for this device, but on the other hand it seems so hard to get the appropriate mouse to the interface anyway - and not for cheap either. Mouse and interface it 70 Euros, that's more than half an SF2. Sorry, out of balance for me.  :)
« Last Edit: 16:53, 04 January 16 by TFM »
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Offline Bryce

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #15 on: 17:30, 23 November 15 »
The calculation of €5 was a bit convenient. The PCB price is missing, the price of consumables is missing, the delivery costs of all components was ignored. My rough guess would be that the entire device costs about €17 to make, without allowing for any wastage, broken parts, devices lost in the post etc.

As far as FutureOS support is concerned, the AMX driver already exists for FutureOS and it would be the same driver for this device.

Bryce.
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Offline TFM

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #16 on: 19:24, 23 November 15 »
Sorry, but isn't this mouse proportional?

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Offline CraigsBar

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #17 on: 19:27, 23 November 15 »
Sorry, but isn't this mouse proportional?


'fraid not. It it more comfortable that the amx mouse, but in use it's just another JoyMouse with only 2 buttons :(


Craig
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Offline TFM

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #18 on: 19:56, 23 November 15 »
Ah, ok, my bad. sorry, got that wrong.
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Offline talrek

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #19 on: 19:58, 23 November 15 »

'fraid not. It it more comfortable that the amx mouse, but in use it's just another JoyMouse with only 2 buttons :(


Craig

Genius Mouse with Dk'tronics interface is only 1 button  :o not 2,It is the left button to be more specific.

The mouse is indeed not proportional, it is basically an AMX mouse, i find it not more comfortable... but i think it is a matter of taste.
It should work on the Future OS, i will try it and post a video of it.

For the price just think about:
- The time  i spent to retro engineer and do the schematics, and layers
- The time i spent in searching the right components
- The cost of parts, PCB (failed one so i had to reorder more)
- The time i spent into soldering (it is long due to 4 SMD Ic's, and size of the PCB) The time i spend on one PCB is the same than a MF2
- Of course i spend almost a day to find why the prototype didn't work
- The tests

With all that time spent, i had prefer to be with my wife and children. i didn't think it was so time-eater. I don't know for you but to me it is hard to put a price on the time i didn't spend with others. And this for only 10 interfaces, because it is a piece of specific hardware people won't want.
Not like X-MASS, X-MEM or other stuffs cheaper indeed. But because of the volume of the sales, it pay you the time you spent.  :)

Sorry i had to say something, i hesitate into answering all of this.
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Offline talrek

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #20 on: 17:22, 23 December 15 »
Hi,
The interfaces are built and available to purchase
There are 9 pieces, i don't think there will be more. You can see the picture on this post. And also a video.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/y5EzICIv7Fs[/youtube]

I will make a PM to those who said they were interested on it.
Price is 30€
Postage is :
France = 2,50€
EU = 5,50€
Worlwide = 6,50€

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« Last Edit: 12:46, 24 December 15 by talrek »
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Offline ||C|-|E||

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone [Available]
« Reply #21 on: 20:23, 23 December 15 »
Awesome!! I already paid mine! Thank you very much!!  :-* :-* :-*

Offline Rennert

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone [Available]
« Reply #22 on: 22:34, 23 December 15 »
Where can i buy this interface? This is my real username.
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Offline dodogildo

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone done
« Reply #23 on: 00:43, 24 December 15 »

The interfaces are built and available to purchase


yaaaay! PM sent
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Offline Cpcmaniaco

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Re: Dk'tronics mouse interface clone [Available]
« Reply #24 on: 03:33, 24 December 15 »
I want to buy one for me, thanks.
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