Do you want to have a Vortex F1-D / M1-D compatible Floppy Controller (4 Drives)

[GUNHED]

A Floppy controller for four drives was developed and the prototype is now under heary testing.

It supports up to four drives or floppy-emulators. But it has no annoying ROM, because any desired DOS / OS ROM can be placed on your ROM expansion anyway.

Interested?

[Gryzor]

I mean, always interested in new stuff, but isn't four drives an overkill? 

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

I mean, always interested in new stuff, but isn't four drives an overkill?

I could see a use for a 3" drive, a 3.5" drive, and a gotek, connected at the same time.

[Gryzor]

Pretty hardcore but I guess it can be done😁

[TotO]

On PC, they have removed the support of four drives very soon from the FDC.
On Amiga it was used to do more copy at the same time. On CPC, it is more "I did it".

[GUNHED]

Well, we do not suffer any longer the limitations of the past or other systems.

Just imagine now you can do this for example:
- Having two 3" drives on your internal floppy controller (that's DDI-1 for CPC464)
- Two 3,5" drives (at the external FDC)
- Two 5,25" drives or Floppy emulators (at the external FDC)

This way you will be able to copy things quite quick - especially on big formats (80 Tracks, 2 Sides, around 0.7 MB). 

You can copy complete discs from any physical format to any other. Just depend on the drives you want to use. 

Of course there will be always some eternal yesterdays-users who will tell "We don't need that. That's shit..." or what every they told visionary CPC users since decades. But who cares?
Please don't turn this thread in another flame war again and stay positive, the CPC deserves it!

This project is for CPC loving guys and girls who want to discover the new power of Floppy disc usage - or anybody who would love to copy a batch of discs as quick as never before.

Well, I will care to have a first batch of 10 units first.

[Audronic]

@TFM 

Does That mean we could have 4 Double Sided disk drives, being used as double sided (Not 8 Sides)

Keep Safe

Ray

[eto]

Of course there will be always some eternal yesterdays-users who will tell "We don't need that.

You mean all those, that do no longer believe in floppies as a future proof storage medium?

Just kidding ;-) cool project for some I guess. 

Do you have a price estimate for the final card and which chips are being used?

[GUNHED]

Well, since the FDC765 and the TTL chips are expensive these days I thought about providing the PCBs with sockets, that shall be cheaper. So everybody can buy the chips cheap or at a 'cheaper time'.
A fully working card will probable not be not very cheap. See picture...

The picture is from Hans who developed the controller. 

[Bryce]

Well, we do not suffer any longer the limitations of the past or other systems.

But we also don't suffer from being limited to floppies either.

Bryce.

[eto]

Well, since the FDC765 and the TTL chips are expensive these days I thought about providing the PCBs with sockets, that shall be cheaper. So everybody can buy the chips cheap or at a 'cheaper time'.
A fully working card will probable not be not very cheap. See picture...

The picture is from Hans who developed the controller. 

wow... the data separator alone is quite expensive. 

[Gryzor]

That's why I said it's pretty hardcore... Not that you can't use them ports, but how many do/will?

In any case I'm all for new hardware, I wouldn't mind even if I never used it. 

[roudoudou]

Well, since the FDC765 and the TTL chips are expensive these days

i dont get it, our FDC can already handle 4 drives
dont you need "only" to wire drv2 pin? and maybe manage the drive selection of 4 drives with some affordable logic gates?

[TotO]

Well, since the FDC765 and the TTL chips are expensive these days I thought about providing the PCBs with sockets, that shall be cheaper. So everybody can buy the chips cheap or at a 'cheaper time'.

Just check the poll, 0% is interrested by that. Juste replace the LS chip with HCT chip, or with HC when possible.

[TotO]

i dont get it, our FDC can already handle 4 drives, dont you need "only" to wire drv2 pin? and maybe manage the drive selection of 4 drives with some affordable logic gates?

Sure, if someone really need to have more than one external drive connected to the floppy disc port, it require to connect DS1 from the FDC and decode it with DS0 through a 74*139 IC. Next, to properly wire the drive select lines for the internal and external usage.

[GUNHED]

Yes, with some serious effort it's probable doable to wire the CPC internally in a way to have four drives. But you need to add chips internally (like the 2 to 4 decoder). 
Or alternatively you can switch B-drives, but in this case you still have only 2 drives accessible during the same time.

This project is for enthusiasts who still like floppy discs to be in use or to use them as backup storage or what ever else.   We're fully aware that the M4 card exists with unlimited storage space. 
There are already lots of threads about if CPC users shall be allowed to use Floppy discs any longer or not. This thread is actually for assessing the interest and guessing how much units shall be produced in the first run.

With this solution you will be able to use 6 drives at the same time (8 would be perfect anyway). Currently I do have six drives at my CPC and I love any single one of them! 

@TotO : What would be the gain of replacing LS by HC chips?

[TotO]

What would be the gain of replacing LS by HC chips?

The board consumption. HC/HCT are less expensive and more easy to find.

[GUNHED]

What would be the gain of replacing LS by HC chips?

The board consumption. HC/HCT are less expensive and more easy to find.

Thank's I will tell Hans about it. 

[Prodatron]

How can I access them in Amsdos? Is there a Unidos node available for this controller?
How will this work together with hardware like the M4Board? Will you have drive D,E,F,G or so then?

It sounds like you want to have some kind of retro feeling when still using floppy discs with a lot of drives (6 in total...). But will old software work with the new disc drives as well?

[GUNHED]

How can I access them in Amsdos? Is there a Unidos node available for this controller?
How will this work together with hardware like the M4Board? Will you have drive D,E,F,G or so then?

There is a variety of examples: You can use VDOS 2.11 or you can use the (I/O patched) ParaDOS / VaraDOS.

Unidos support? Strange question, how can it be there when we just have the first fully working prototype. I don't know if the Unidos team will ever support it - support would be definitely appreciated.

Up to now I was not able to see any kind of compatibility issues.

It sounds like you want to have some kind of retro feeling when still using floppy discs with a lot of drives (6 in total...). But will old software work with the new disc drives as well?

Well, the old software worked in the Mid-80ies with VDOS, there is no reason that it won't any longer. Compatibility problems are there not less or more as with most B drives. Maybe even a bit less, because you can have an A drive in this case - just external.
Using ParaDOS / VaraDOS for it should enable 99% of all (old and new) software to run just fine.

[TotO]

@Prodatron I will see a real interrest about using a second FDC, if Western Digital.
To allow to make copy of protected floppy disc using the write track feature like SamDisk does on PC.

[Bryce]

I'm still not convinced. It's like adding a USB port to a sextant although GPS now exists. Maybe I'm just not as retro fanatic as others.

Bryce.

[GUNHED]

I'm still not convinced. It's like adding a USB port to a sextant although GPS now exists. Maybe I'm just not as retro fanatic as others.

Bryce.

Nobody want's to convince you. But please allow others to have their own opinion. 

[Bryce]

I'm still not convinced. It's like adding a USB port to a sextant although GPS now exists. Maybe I'm just not as retro fanatic as others.

Bryce.

Nobody want's to convince you. But please allow others to have their own opinion.

I'm neither blocking nor disrespecting anyone else's opinion, I'm just giving mine.

Bryce.

[Richard_Lloyd]

This project is useful for users (like me) who have PCWs as well as CPCs. It opens up the possibility of being able to copy from many different disc formats without connecting/disconnecting drives all the time.

Although I voted for a complete board, a PCB only or a PCB with sockets is fine (with a clear component list).

Keep going, this is great!