Gate array decapped!

Started by robcfg, 18:54, 12 April 16

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robcfg

Hello everyone!


As I told in another thread, @Cpcmaniaco and I sent 4 different Gate Array chips (40007, 40010, PreASIC and ASIC) to Sean Riddle (Sean Riddle's Home Page) for decapping.


Today he sent me the first picture, which is the 40010 GA. I have to say it looks impressive, and finally we can have a peek at the inner working of the GA.


I uploaded the picture to the Gate Array wiki page.


Enjoy!

Singaja

Could this be done with ASIC?

dragon

My 3mb adsl is colapsed to view the foto. good work guys!!.

robcfg

I guess so, that's why we sent him a PreASIC and an ASIC chip.

dragon

#4
Me da error la foto a pantalla completa os pasa a vosotros dice no se puede mostrar la imagen porque contiene errores.

Vale arreglado, la he descargado con el jdowloader jeje.

Gryzor

It was probably a downloading error, the image is perfect - if it wasn't jDownloader wouldn't help :)


Amazing artwork for a wall print. I'm thinking this, an armchair, drugs. Duuuuude!

gerald

Quote from: robcfg on 18:54, 12 April 16
I uploaded the picture to the Gate Array wiki page.
Is that the highest resolution available ? Some features are difficult to see.

Arnaud

What can we do with it ? Improve emulation / FPGA ?

gerald

Quote from: Arnaud on 19:42, 12 April 16
What can we do with it ? Improve emulation / FPGA ?
Yes. But I do not think there is much to be found on the 40010/40007
However, the ASIC picture would really help improving emulation, be it HW or SW.

dragon

Quote from: gerald on 19:54, 12 April 16
Yes. But I do not think there is much to be found on the 40010/40007
However, the ASIC picture would really help improving emulation, be it HW or SW.

Diferent tecnology, if at the finish the 40007 is the ferranti 5000 documented in the book of zx spectrum.

Anyway i think it can be good specially to make new pre-asic chips to dead boards, and in the plus range, we can discover why the bugs of plus range.

Gryzor

Quote from: gerald on 19:35, 12 April 16
Is that the highest resolution available ? Some features are difficult to see.


Might be due to jpeg compression? @robcfg was kind enough to send me a 160MB version (though in GiMP format, no idea how this compares to TIFF etc), if anyone needs it I'll arrange something :)

gerald

Quote from: Gryzor on 20:15, 12 April 16

Might be due to jpeg compression? @robcfg was kind enough to send me a 160MB version (though in GiMP format, no idea how this compares to TIFF etc), if anyone needs it I'll arrange something :)
160MB is roughly the size of the image linked save in xcf (Gimp). So I guess this is the same resolution.

robcfg

Same resolution but without compression artifacts.

dragon

Is a channeled gate array?, So the cells are the in the rows and the space are the interconnecion between cells?.

Channeled Gate Array

TotO

If I understand well, it is incredible to know that 40010 GA was designed in 1983 by LSI LOGIC and produced by SGS (ST Microelectronics).
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

gerald

Quote from: robcfg on 20:52, 12 April 16
Same resolution but without compression artifacts.
Interrested  ;)

||C|-|E||

This is amazing! If we had all the data for the ASIC it should be possible to do a perfect FPGA core and a perfect emulator...  :o

robcfg

Some more info on the picture:


QuoteThat pic was composited from 156 pics taken using a 10x objective, and I scaled it down by about 1/2. I also took pics with a 20x objective, but there are 600 of those, so I need a faster way to composite them.


That's some serious amount of work!


Also:


QuoteI was able to figure out the pad numbering from that doc:
   5    36 
6        35




14        26
  15    25



The doc he's referring to is http://matthieu.benoit.free.fr/pdf/amstrad_videogate-array.pdf


@gerald , I sent you a PM  ;)


I'm eager to see the rest of the chips, hehe!

robcfg

Quote from: dragon on 20:57, 12 April 16
Is a channeled gate array?, So the cells are the in the rows and the space are the interconnecion between cells?.

Channeled Gate Array


I cannot tell you for sure, as I'm no expert in the field. It looks like one, but I can be wrong.

Bryce

Very nice work. He obviously knows what he's doing to have freed the metal layer that nicely without damaging it at all. In high-res this should be "decypherable". Massive amount of work though.

Bryce.

dragon

#20
And what happend with the 40008? i view is selling now alone in ebay. We can make a collect or something. To.have all chips decaped.

Quote

I cannot tell you for sure, as I'm no expert in the field. It looks like one, but I can be wrong.

I 'm not an expert  only supposed, if is this type one of the horizontal metal layers are vccc an the other ground.

robcfg

Quote from: Bryce on 22:57, 12 April 16
Very nice work. He obviously knows what he's doing to have freed the metal layer that nicely without damaging it at all. In high-res this should be "decypherable". Massive amount of work though.

Bryce.


Indeed, but at least, we have a starting point, which is more than we had. Any suggestions on how should we start identifying anything on the image?


QuoteAnd what happend with the 40008? i view is selling now alone in ebay. We can make a collect or something. To.have all chips decaped.


Well, CPCManiaco spent quite some time digging through all the CPCs he has at hand, but he couldn't find a 40008.


Anyway, I expect the most changes to happen between 40007 and the other two, as 40008 and 40010 have the same pinout.


Of course, it would be nice to have them all decapped  ;)

dragon

#22
Yeah i suppose it we can buy one thats all :)

And no cpc sacrificed :)

Amstrad 40008 | eBay

Yeah the 40007 probably share picture infrastructure with ula spectrum, i think the 40008 is made by lsi (without sgs).

I count 37 cells (it appeared agruped by two in two) *18 rows=666 jaja. counting it alone makes 74*18=1332 cells.


Gryzor

Crowdfunding? :D


No idea about the industry, but isn't there any software that can help you decipher the whole thing?

Octoate

Quote from: Gryzor on 09:28, 13 April 16
No idea about the industry, but isn't there any software that can help you decipher the whole thing?
You can use Degate (Reverse engineering integrated circuits with degate - Home). Btw, a nice tutorial on how to reverse engineer ICs can be found here.
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