Issue with a MX4 board?

Started by angelcaio, 19:24, 02 December 18

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angelcaio

Hello. I have a CPC464, to this I have connected an MX4 expansion board in which there is connected an X-MEM, an X-MASS, a Mini Booster with the Bluetooth antenna, an Electric Studio stylus using an adapter and a DDI- 1 Clone also by another adapter to the stacking port of the MX4 and, to the latter, two floppy disks (3.5 "and 5.25")
The board is plugged with a cable to a PC source, although I have also tested it with a psu of 5V 2A.
For some time there has been a strange effect:
When turning on the UPS, to which everything is connected, the activity indicator of the 5 1/4 unit goes crazy and does not turn off until I turn on the CPC. Normally from here everything goes well, but now it makes things weirder: memory errors, crashes, strange pixels on the screen, ...
When loading cp / m, sometimes, it says "unexpected return in 0" (!!!)
Sometimes even the floppy disk drive keeps blinking after booting the CPC and then nothing works as it should.
I have removed all the boards and left only the X-MEM connected to the MX4. and the DDI-1 with the floppy drives and the same thing happens)
The effect only disappears if I unplug the power of the MX4 (it passes both with the PC source and with the 5V psu) I have tried only with the memory expansion and the disk controller and without power and it goes well, but without the power additional with the other cards the CPC does not even start.
I've tried two different PC sources and two 5v PSUs with the same result
Has something like this happened to someone?
Any ideas?

https://youtu.be/vzIu2HPn8Ks
Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad english.


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GUNHED

Do the ROMs of the M4 and the X-MEM collide?
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2022.03.09)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.12.26)

angelcaio

Quote from: GUNHED on 19:55, 02 December 18
Do the ROMs of the M4 and the X-MEM collide?
No. Is a MX4 board, for connect mx4 format boards

it only has the roms of the x-mem


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LambdaMikel

Well, MX4 and CPC 464 are a little bit of a challenging combination, yes, I had similar experiences. Did you remove the diode and try powering everything over the CPC and a beefy (say 3 A) 5 V external PSU?

angelcaio

Thanks, LambdaMikel. Sorry, I'm not very good at electronics. When you say "remove the diode", how should I do it?

GUNHED


The X-MEM provides ROMs, the M4 provides ROMs. You can't use them both at the same time. Switch the X-MEM or M4 ROMs off. Then it should work.

Quote from: angelcaio on 20:07, 02 December 18
No. Is a MX4 board, for connect mx4 format boards

it only has the roms of the x-mem


Enviado desde mi iPad utilizando Tapatalk
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2022.03.09)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.12.26)

angelcaio

that's right,  Gunhed, but I do not have any m4 connected in this cpc

LambdaMikel

Quote from: angelcaio on 21:14, 02 December 18
Thanks, LambdaMikel. Sorry, I'm not very good at electronics. When you say "remove the diode", how should I do it?
Welcome, well I shouldn't give you that advice really, because it is not in the name of the inventor, and then you can no longer use the extra PSU jack on the MX4.

But check out my discussion here:

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/mother-x4-and-ddi3-mods/msg162630/#msg162630

At your own risk, and know the consequence

For me this hack was the only way of getting DDI3 to work reliable at the end of the MotherX4.



LambdaMikel

Ask @TotO directly, I think he is no longer banned  ;) 

Bryce

Your PSU maybe overshooting (spiking well above 5V) when it's turning on due to the current rush. This could destroy your CPC and expansions if it's happening. Unfortunately, you most likely don't have an oscilloscope to measure this, but you could try changing the order that you switch things on. Try turning on the PSU without it connected to anything, then plug it into the CPC/MX4 and then turn on the CPC. If the problem does occur, then it's an overshoot problem and I'd advise you to use a different PSU.

Bryce.

angelcaio


Hi.
The cpc and the mouse interface are plugged into the monitor's power socket
and the mx4 with the cards to a PC power supply in the 5V branch (red, black)
Would it be better to plug everything into a 5V and 4A source, for example, and not connect anything to the monitor's power socket?
I measured with a multimeter the output of the pc power supply and read  between 5.1V to 5.2v

Bryce

It's always better to only use one power supply, because they "fight" each other to stabilise the voltage. 5.1/5.2V are only the voltage at that instant in time, you can't see whether they are spiking or full of noise with a multimeter.

Yes, a single 5V 4A supply alone would be a much better solution.

Bryce.

TotO

#12
Hello,

I have just answered to the PM and discovering next this topic.

My current configuration is a CPC 6128, but I will try with a 464+DDI-1.
- MotherX4 with four MX4 expansions plugged
- A FD-1 connected to the floppy port
- Added a 5V PSU to power it

No issue on my side, as there is no power link beetwen the CPC and the FD-1
1- Is the DDI-1 was hacked to be powered by the CPC expansion port?



"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Bryce

Quote from: TotO on 11:34, 03 December 18
Hello,

I have just answered to the PM and discovering next this topic.

My current configuration is a CPC 6128, but I will try with a 464+DDI-1.
- MotherX4 with four MX4 expansions plugged
- A FD-1 connected to the floppy port
- Added a 5V PSU to power it

No issue on my side, as there is no power link beetwen the CPC and the FD-1
1- Is the DDI-1 was hacked to be powered by the CPC expansion port?

It's a DDI-1 clone he's using, so who knows how that's wired up.

Bryce.

TotO

#14
Quote from: Bryce on 12:54, 03 December 18
It's a DDI-1 clone he's using, so who knows how that's wired up.
True.

He should cut with care the two diodes if the goal is to no more use the MotherX4 without PSU to see the result.
Or, I can sent him one without diode to do the tests... (and if OK, to return me the other)
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

angelcaio

#15
HI. I mean DDIi-1 clone (made by Piort)


http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/ddi-1-clone-95-done/msg77653/#msg77653

The ddi-1 clone is connected to an adapter to edge (is the right angle connector of the photo) in the last slot, the fifth,



pg










angelcaio

Quote from: TotO on 13:55, 03 December 18
True.

He should cut with care the two diodes if the goal is to no more use the MotherX4 without PSU to see the result.
Or, I can sent him one without diode to do the tests... (and if OK, to return me the other)



It would be great if you sent it to me because I do not think I'm very good at cutting diodes (I pay shipping costs, of course) and I'll return the other


One question: Connecting the CPC to a 5V 4A psu and the MX4 without psu, would it be necessary to change the board?

TotO

Quote from: angelcaio on 19:42, 03 December 18
It would be great if you sent it to me because I do not think I'm very good at cutting diodes (I pay shipping costs, of course) and I'll return the other
One question: Connecting the CPC to a 5V 4A psu and the MX4 without psu, would it be necessary to change the board?


No problem to do that is required. About the question, sure you can test that with your existing MotherX4.

"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

angelcaio


angelcaio

#19
Hi. I have done the following tests and these are the results:

1.-
     * CPC plugged to the 300W PC power supply
     * Mother X4  WITHOUT external power
     * All cards plugged into Mother X4 (X-MEM, X-MASS, Mini Booster)
     * Lightpen plugged at Mother X4 with a vertical Edge50 adapter
     * Zaxon DDI-1 CLONE attached at a angled Edge50 adapter
     * Both Floppy drives (5,25" and 3,5") attached at DDI-1 Clone

When the system is turned on, the red LED on the CPC keyboard lights up but shows nothing on the screen. Pressing the DE key will not hear anything through the speaker


2.-
     * CPC plugged to the GT65 Monitor
     * Mother X4  plugged to the 300W PC power supply
     * All cards plugged into Mother X4  (X-MEM, X-MASS, Mini Booster)
     * WITHOUT Lightpen 
     * WITHOUT Zaxon DDI-1 CLONE
     * WITHOUT Floppy drives

The system start correctly. Load Symbos from X-MASS

3.-
     * CPC plugged to the GT65 Monitor
     * Mother X4  WITHOUT external power
     * All cards plugged into Mother X4  (X-MEM, X-MASS, Mini Booster)
     * Lightpen plugged at Mother X4 with a vertical Edge50 adapter
     * Zaxon DDI-1 CLONE attached at a angled Edge50 adapter
     * Both Floppy drives (5,25" and 3,5") attached at DDI-1 Clone

The 5.25 "drive flickers as if it were crazy just to supply power to the system. It continues like this after turning on the CPC. Sometimes it fails to load the Basic ROM. Do not load SymBos from the X-MASS. The stylus does not work. If the system starts it is very unstable

4.-
     * CPC plugged to the GT65 Motnitor
     * WHITOUT Mother X4 
     * Zaxon DDI-1 CLONE attached at CPC Port Expansion
     * Both Floppy drives (5,25" and 3,5") attached at DDI-1 Clone

Works correctly . Floppy drives work ok and they do not blink. Load CP / M 2.2 correctly

5.-
     * CPC plugged to the GT65 Monitor
     * WHITOUT  Mother X4 
     * DUKE's MX4 to Edge connector
     * X-MEM Connected to adapter
     * Zaxon DDI-1 CLONE attached at Edge50 adapter
     * Both Floppy drives (5,25" and 3,5") attached at DDI-1 Clone

Works correctly. Floppy drives work ok and they do not blink. Load CP / M +  correctly.

6.-
     * CPC plugged to the GT65 Motnitor
     * Mother X4  plugged to the 300W PC power supply 
     * All cards plugged into Mother X4  (X-MEM, X-MASS, Mini Booster)
     * Lightpen plugged at Mother X4 with a vertical Edge50 adapter
     * Zaxon DDI-1 CLONE attached at a angled Edge50 adapter
     * WITHOUT Floppy drives

Works correctly. Load Symbos from the X-MASS

The 5.25 "drive flickers as if it were crazy just to supply power to the system. It continues like this after turning on the CPC. Sometimes it fails to load the Basic ROM. Do not load SymBos from the X-MASS. The stylus does not work. If the system starts it is very unstable


7.-
     * CPC plugged to the GT65 Monitor
     * Mother X4  plugged to the 300W PC power supply
     * All cards plugged into Mother X4  (X-MEM, X-MASS, Mini Booster)
     * WITHOUT Lightpen
     * Zaxon DDI-1 CLONE attached at a angled Edge50 adapter
     * Both Floppy drives (5,25" and 3,5") attached at DDI-1 Clone

The 5.25 "drive flickers as if it were crazy just to supply power to the system. After turn on the CPC. After turning on the CPC, it sometimes goes out and sometimes it goes on until a disk drive is accessed.  When the CPC is switched off, the 5.25 "floppy disk drive flashes again. Works correctly. Load Symbos form X-MASS and CP/M+

8.-
     * CPC plugged to the GT65 Monitor
     * Mother X4  WITHOUT external power
     * Only X-MEM attached to the Mother X4
     * Zaxon DDI-1 CLONE attached at a angled Edge50 adapter
     * Both Floppy drives (5,25" and 3,5") attached at DDI-1 Clone

Works correctly. Floppy drives work ok and they do not blink. Load CP / M +  correctly.


Plug the CPC to the PC Poser supply has not solved the problem.
I have not tested with a PSU of 5V 4A (because I do not have it yet), but I do not think it behaves differently

Do you think the problem is in the mother X4?
Thanks


LambdaMikel

#20
You could try one of the other bus expanders available and check if the problem goes away (Revaldino's, or LambdaBoard).


PS Careful with the PC monster PSU...

Audronic

#21
@angelcaio


Have you cleaned the Power Switch  ? ?

I just had a look under My MX4 and some time ago I shorted out the 2 Diodes as I added more devices to the board. ??
This has been working for 2-3 years like this.


Good Luck

Ray
Procrastinators Unite,
If it Ain't Broke PLEASE Don't Fix it.
I keep telling you I am Not Pedantic.
As I Live " Down Under " I Take my Gravity Tablets and Wear my Magnetic Boots to Keep me from Falling off.

LambdaMikel


Audronic

@LambdaMikel


I could not find the warning ? ?


I am prepared to take the chance of Over voltage ( It Should be DEAD after 2-3 Years )


My reason was that I was getting about 4.8 Volts on the MX4 board Unloaded 4.2 Volts loaded a weeny bit low ?
Shorting out the 2 (Two) diodes got it back on track and allowed me other options ( to feed Both the computer and the Mx4 Externally from the Power socket on the MX4 board.


Its Still working


Thanks.  Ray
Procrastinators Unite,
If it Ain't Broke PLEASE Don't Fix it.
I keep telling you I am Not Pedantic.
As I Live " Down Under " I Take my Gravity Tablets and Wear my Magnetic Boots to Keep me from Falling off.

LambdaMikel

#24
Quote from: Audronic on 02:13, 07 December 18
@LambdaMikel
I could not find the warning ? ?

TotO:
This hack is dangerous. You can damage your CPC or the connected expansions if later you forgot and a PSU is plugged on the
MotherX4.

I may add - this warning is for dummies only.
I had the same motivation for bridging them - DDI3 didn't get enough juice, the display was too dim to read.

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