Author Topic: LambdaSpeak FS  (Read 4566 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Animalgril987

  • Supporter
  • CPC6128
  • *
  • Posts: 176
  • Country: gb
  • Liked: 83
  • Likes Given: 200
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #50 on: 21:01, 25 April 21 »
@VintageAdvantage  Hardware Envelopes can be specified in both BASIC ( ENV command) and firmware ( SOUND_AMPL_ENVELOPE (CALL &BCBC))
 :D


Alan.

Offline Nemo59

  • CPC464
  • **
  • Posts: 29
  • Country: fr
  • CPC6128+
  • Liked: 60
  • Likes Given: 26
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #51 on: 23:27, 25 April 21 »
Could this work with a CPC+ ?
CPC 6128+ / CPM+/ Turbo PASCAL v3
https://cpcrulez.fr/auteur-nemo59.htm

Offline VintageAdvantage

  • CPC6128
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Country: us
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 154
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #52 on: 03:44, 26 April 21 »
@VintageAdvantage  Hardware Envelopes can be specified in both BASIC ( ENV command) and firmware ( SOUND_AMPL_ENVELOPE (CALL &BCBC))

Thanks Alan / @Animalgril987 , but that wasn't the question  ;)
Beside, Firmware and "ENV" in BASIC is the same, and that's a "software envelope", NOT a hardware envelope. And obviously, the CPC Firmware cannot controll the PlayCity envelopes, so my suspicion is it is easiest to use the hardware envelopes from the chip (that don't require programming) rather than setting up an interupt counter for periodic volume changes and such. 
« Last Edit: 03:53, 26 April 21 by VintageAdvantage »

Offline Animalgril987

  • Supporter
  • CPC6128
  • *
  • Posts: 176
  • Country: gb
  • Liked: 83
  • Likes Given: 200
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #53 on: 21:01, 26 April 21 »
@VintageAdvantage , I quote from the CPC464 User Manual (Chapter 8, page 15 in the 2nd Edition):


" The second form specifies an envelope section to be executed directly by the sound hardware, where
<hardware envelope> is the value to be set into the envelope shape register (register at, octal).
<envelope period> is the value to be set into the envelope period registers (registers 13 & 14, octal)."


The registers mentioned are the PSG HARDWARE envelope control registers.


Alan.

Offline VintageAdvantage

  • CPC6128
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Country: us
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 154
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #54 on: 23:33, 26 April 21 »
@VintageAdvantage , I quote from the CPC464 User Manual (Chapter 8, page 15 in the 2nd Edition):


" The second form specifies an envelope section to be executed directly by the sound hardware, where
<hardware envelope> is the value to be set into the envelope shape register (register at, octal).
<envelope period> is the value to be set into the envelope period registers (registers 13 & 14, octal)."


The registers mentioned are the PSG HARDWARE envelope control registers.


Alan.
Thanks @Animalgril987  / Alan. Indeed, I wasn't aware that you can use the firmware (&BCBC) to define hardware envelopes (and not only software envelopes, which is the usual use case for &BCBC), given that this is straightforward for the AY even without the firmware support. Well, for the CPC, to get to the AY one has to go over the PIO, so maybe &BCBC helps a bit for that.

In any way, I'll probably just use the firmware then for the CPC AY hardware envelopes, and have to figure out how to write the AY registers directly for PlayCity. Shouldn't be difficult (and actually easier than going over the PIO for the CPC's AY).

I am currently using &BCBC for software envelopes for the CPC MIDI Synth, but I am going to change that so that both the CPC AY and the PlayCity will use (the same) hardware envelopes then.

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.614
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
  • Liked: 1233
  • Likes Given: 2908
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #55 on: 00:58, 27 April 21 »
This still got nothing to do with the PlayCity though. But back to LambdaSpeak FS ...
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.06.01)

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.614
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
  • Liked: 1233
  • Likes Given: 2908
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #56 on: 21:52, 28 April 21 »
New firmware, new software. See Michaels and my homepages please.


Comments are always welcome.   :)
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.06.01)

Offline RetroCPC

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Country: hk
  • Liked: 62
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #57 on: 03:35, 29 April 21 »
Regarding the Music Machine, it has some limitiations:

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/c/c7/Music_Machine_Manual.pdf

- for example, Page 28:
  (e) Using a MIDI Synthesizer, you may play 2 MIDI Machines notes simultaneously
- on Page 36:  The total [PCM sample] duration is 1.2 seconds  (24 KBs of RAM left)

Our MIDI AY CPC demo program uses all 3 AY voices (plus 3 more with Speak&SID from the SID chip... work in progress) 

So much for polyphony  ;)
Well, the AY has only 3 voices, and it seems you can also play a PCM Sample over MIDI. Of course, this is monophone... the Amdrum allowed for up to 3 PCM voices to be mixed together "on the fly" if I remember correctly. So this is a bit more limited than the Amdrum wrt PCM playback it seems.

Well, it's a cool device for sure, for the time, but has severe limitations.

The biggest drawback regarding MIDI IMHO is that you cannot really playback any standard MID files with it. This is what I am looking for. AS there are so many fun MIDs available. Nobody wants to use a clunky slow CPC editor to input some 3channel MIDI song by hand or one note at a time with a step sequencer (not realtime recording).

Besides, if you would add a chip such as the VS1053B then you would also have a GM MIDI synthesizer on board. This is what SymbiFace 3 has. For MP3, but they can also do MIDI. AFAIK, they stream the MIDI from the SDcard though, not from the CPC, which basically turns it into a SDcard MIDI jukebox then? Not sure that's the case. MIDI is only interesting if it is being generated / processed by the CPC IMHO, and not coming from SDcard which the firmware of the expansion card accesses.And, unlike MP3, for MIDI it is a realistic option that the CPC generates / streams it, and not only initiates a "playback from SDcard" command to the firmware. For MP3, the file sizes are of course prohibitive from a CPC point of view. So SDcard-based MP3 playback it is, like in LambdaSpeak. Even with 4 MB CPC memory expansion it would be insane of trying to attempt to playback / stream MP3 from the CPC memory  :) PCM samples and MIDI are a different story IMHO - see Amdrum, Music Machine, ....

The original fairlight sampler had less then a second or so of sampling memory, and its pretty much responsible for the age of electronic sampled music...

Its said that Drum samples require less about 100ms... sounds a little short to me, but then it gives an idea...

Personally I like the idea that the CPC is doing the real work (sampling), rather then just acting as a controller...

The VS1053B an interesting chip – you have to wonder how many of such oddball chips coming out of Finland are a result of the Nokia shutdown and redundancy funds then pumped into small startups... Not knocking them, but it must be hard when your located in Finland to get much global market penetration – especially when Asia is your target market for such designs...


The Finair cabin crew used to visit our “local” Irish pub in downtown Guangzho China (Paddy fields) – lets just say they where always “good fun” and I have many fond memories and leave it at that – not sure I'd trust to fly with them...


I'm currently fighting a PCB design, once its out of the way then I'll have time to “play”  :)



Offline RetroCPC

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Country: hk
  • Liked: 62
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #58 on: 03:41, 29 April 21 »
New firmware, new software. See Michaels and my homepages please.


Comments are always welcome.   :)

Can you please post a link to the mention home page? :)

Offline XeNoMoRPH

  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 1.031
  • Country: es
  • " ... in space no one , can hear you scream ... "
  • Liked: 2334
  • Likes Given: 1657
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #59 on: 11:15, 29 April 21 »
this sites are under GUNHED´s signature

Quote
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Recent update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.04.27)
and this other one:
https://github.com/lambdamikel/LambdaSpeak-FS
your amstrad news source in spanish language : https://auamstrad.es

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.614
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
  • Liked: 1233
  • Likes Given: 2908
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #60 on: 17:27, 29 April 21 »
Yes, it's in my signature. And I try to keep the date-stamp there updated, so you see if it makes sense to update from there.  :)
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.06.01)

Offline VintageAdvantage

  • CPC6128
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Country: us
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 154
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #61 on: 22:17, 29 April 21 »
The original fairlight sampler had less then a second or so of sampling memory, and its pretty much responsible for the age of electronic sampled music...


That was because of 24bit PCM sample quality I believe. Samples could have been longer with 8 Bit PCM. I am not sure if 8bit came with the Fairlight 2? Memory / RAM was expensive back then.

History wise - I think that *at least* 50 % of the credit for creating sampling-based synthesizer technology should go to Wolfgang Palm, who created the PPG 340/380 at about the same time (or earlier) than Fairlight. The Synclavier guys also deserve quite a bit of credit here as well:

http://www.ppg.synth.net/340380/

http://wolfgangpalm.com/story/

Later came the WaveComputer 360A and then the PPG Wave 2.0, which many of us will know. Then came Waldorf, the Wave and the MicroWave. Wolfgang Palm also invented Wave Table Synthesis,  which is more advanced than simple PCM-sample playing. But his first machines were simple PCM-based sample players AFAIK. That all happened in my hometown, Hamburg, so we are very proud of Wolfgang ;-)

Quote

Its said that Drum samples require less about 100ms... sounds a little short to me, but then it gives an idea...

That's probably true for all but cymbal rides and cymbal crashes that are decaying a long time. For LambdaSpeak 3 and its samples, most samples take ~10 KB, with the exception of the above (~ 40 KBs). The 128 KBs of EEPROM on LS3 are just enough to hold a full drum set in decent quality. Wouldn't fit in the 464 memory.

Quote
Personally I like the idea that the CPC is doing the real work (sampling), rather then just acting as a controller...


Me too. But memory... and it also opens up the possibility of doing things like a PCM-based pattern sequencer / drum computer from BASIC, like here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7aI7KLEi1s

« Last Edit: 22:42, 29 April 21 by VintageAdvantage »

Offline RetroCPC

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Country: hk
  • Liked: 62
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #62 on: 05:45, 30 April 21 »
WRT the Fairlight I was accidentally careful to say "sampled music" as  a quick read of the links it appears that the PPG 340/380 used wave synthases (earlier design seemed to based on more traditional oscillator type designs) there seems to be no mention of PCM sampling - not sure about the synclavier, but really interesting as its the first I've heard Wolfgang Palm... which is sad I guess!

I've schematics somewhere for the early fairlight (they are available on the internet - a French guy seems involved with legacy support IIRC) where 8bit sampling - with later fairlight 3 being 16bits, not sure there was ever a 24bit fairlight...

Back to the CPC :) I think CPU power is more limiting them memory for higher quality samples - 8bit with decent dither can give surprisingly good results, so the question is whats more important higher sample rate or greater bitdepth.... (sure ideally both - but we are living in the world of the Z80)...  Unless we are back to the CPC just being a controller of some kind!

There is something very endearing about the AmDrum - maybe I'm just being nostalgic :)

It be interesting to try using a say a 24bit ADC and dither down to 8bits with a small FPGA and see if it offered a noticeable improvement over the simple 8bit ADC used in the musicMachine... would give us manageable sized audio samples for the CPC.

Offline VintageAdvantage

  • CPC6128
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Country: us
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 154
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #63 on: 09:05, 30 April 21 »
WRT the Fairlight I was accidentally careful to say "sampled music" as  a quick read of the links it appears that the PPG 340/380 used wave synthases (earlier design seemed to based on more traditional oscillator type designs) there seems to be no mention of PCM sampling - not sure about the synclavier, but really interesting as its the first I've heard Wolfgang Palm... which is sad I guess!
Maybe I am wrong. My understanding is that a WaveTable is basically a set of PCM Sample Waveforms (of the same length). They are very short admittedly, 128 samples in the original, and that x64. And then there is interpolation performed as one cycles through the set of waveforms, over time, creating interesting "morphs" and harmonics. So it's a superset of simple PCM sample playing AFAIK (with shorter samples, but more of them to create temporal variations of the waveforms via interpolation).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavetable_synthesis

It's the sound of early Tangerine Dream; the PPG Wave 2 is one of the most iconic synths ever:


https://youtu.be/9bZ_VGFi5X0

So beautiful and unique in its sonic characteristics.


https://youtu.be/8JpfHt8CiPk
Quote
I've schematics somewhere for the early fairlight (they are available on the internet - a French guy seems involved with legacy support IIRC) where 8bit sampling - with later fairlight 3 being 16bits, not sure there was ever a 24bit fairlight...
You are right, I misread - 24 kHz! Wow, but it had 208 KBs according to Wikipedia... what did they do with all the RAM?? That should have held more than 1.5 seconds... well maybe the OS needed the rest :-)

Quote
Back to the CPC :) I think CPU power is more limiting them memory for higher quality samples - 8bit with decent dither can give surprisingly good results, so the question is whats more important higher sample rate or greater bitdepth.... (sure ideally both - but we are living in the world of the Z80)...  Unless we are back to the CPC just being a controller of some kind!

There is something very endearing about the AmDrum - maybe I'm just being nostalgic :)

It be interesting to try using a say a 24bit ADC and dither down to 8bits with a small FPGA and see if it offered a noticeable improvement over the simple 8bit ADC used in the musicMachine... would give us manageable sized audio samples for the CPC.
Certainly worth trying, give it a go! The more music hardware for the CPC, the better!  :)
« Last Edit: 09:13, 30 April 21 by VintageAdvantage »

Offline VintageAdvantage

  • CPC6128
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Country: us
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 154
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #64 on: 22:36, 30 April 21 »
but really interesting as its the first I've heard Wolfgang Palm... which is sad I guess!

Here is a bit more about Wolfgang


https://youtu.be/8Qk9RHOuzUA


https://youtu.be/3ntDgDU6ClM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLDt5V4CGMQ
« Last Edit: 22:44, 30 April 21 by VintageAdvantage »

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.614
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
  • Liked: 1233
  • Likes Given: 2908
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #65 on: 20:40, 02 May 21 »
IMHO 8 bit dept for CPC is just perfect. For anything else... we still can start a MP3.
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.06.01)

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.614
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
  • Liked: 1233
  • Likes Given: 2908
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #66 on: 21:42, 06 May 21 »
Complete MIDI setup for 80 US Dollars...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gF5pupP_6o

http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.06.01)

Offline RetroCPC

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Country: hk
  • Liked: 62
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #67 on: 22:38, 06 May 21 »
Very interesting chips...

What do you think of the SAM5504B?

https://www.dream.fr/devices.html#S2

https://www.dream.fr/pdf/Serie5000/SAM_Datasheets/SAM5504B.pdf

Has SPDIF input  / output and DAC interface - now I'd be happy to design hardware for the CPC if you could support the software...
« Last Edit: 22:41, 06 May 21 by RetroCPC »

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.614
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
  • Liked: 1233
  • Likes Given: 2908
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #68 on: 04:15, 07 May 21 »
Honestly, that's new for me. I need to read that.

Just hope that you and Michael can create an TextToSpeech replacement for a decent price. Seems that the promotion is over, and won't come back in time.

'Everything Speech & Sound' is getting more and more interesting on CPCs now.  :) :) :)
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.06.01)

Offline TotO

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 3.959
  • Country: fr
    • ?area=showdonations;u=4
  • Liked: 3055
  • Likes Given: 1836
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #69 on: 09:00, 07 May 21 »
Very interesting chips...
What do you think of the SAM5504B?
It is used into the Dream Blaster (X2) expansion sold by SerdaShop. (I have bought one using the 2295 for tests 5 years ago)
The board is designed to be used with a Wave Blaster connector to extend the audio capabilities of any PC sound board or compatible (Atari ST MIDI, ...). The Dream IC are tiny and can't be soldered outside an industrial process.
« Last Edit: 09:03, 07 May 21 by TotO »
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Offline RetroCPC

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Country: hk
  • Liked: 62
  • Likes Given: 59
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #70 on: 11:10, 07 May 21 »
Dream Blaster (X2)
Just hope that you and Michael can create an TextToSpeech replacement for a decent price. Seems that the promotion is over, and won't come back in time.

I just tried to order some S1V30120F01A100 today from Mouser and they have non in stock - next delivery expected September 28 2021!!!!

I'll try other vendors, but they are not common parts...

The worldwide IC situation is getting really critical - I'm not sure what we can do if we cannot purchase the IC's...
« Last Edit: 11:18, 07 May 21 by RetroCPC »

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.614
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
  • Liked: 1233
  • Likes Given: 2908
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #71 on: 16:14, 07 May 21 »
No problem, till September it's only four months, just a bit time to enhance the software for LS.  :)
Most of us are old, times are passing quickly.  ;) :laugh:
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.06.01)

Offline Animalgril987

  • Supporter
  • CPC6128
  • *
  • Posts: 176
  • Country: gb
  • Liked: 83
  • Likes Given: 200
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #72 on: 19:09, 07 May 21 »
Most of us are old, times are passing quickly.   
The older we are, the more quickly the time passes :(

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.614
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
  • Liked: 1233
  • Likes Given: 2908
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #73 on: 17:48, 14 May 21 »
Using the LambdaSpeak FS and the relatively cheap Chill 2 board you get more than a keyboard + synthesizer. Take a look if you like MIDI...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcRic3ZGMYw

http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.06.01)

Offline eto

  • Supporter
  • 464 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: de
  • Liked: 202
  • Likes Given: 182
Re: LambdaSpeak FS
« Reply #74 on: 19:19, 14 May 21 »
Is the CPC playing the .MID files or still the PC that sends the .MID to the CPC?