What 5.25" drive did I get here?

[cwh]

Hi again,
the CPC 464 I bought 20 years ago came with an extra 5.25" drive. Now that I wanted to use it for the first time since I got it I also wanted to find out what it is. Unfortunately it doesn't match any of the of the drives listed in the wiki.
There is not a single hint about a manufacturer on or in the drive. It looks quite small-batch and hand made. Although the only two pieces of paper that came in the box refer to "your dealer may help you" – so it was somehow in the shops. It has been sold in Germany.

The drive that is used is a really oldschool Siemens V22999, which is documented here: https://retrocmp.de/fdd/basf/6106s/b6106s_i.htm
Does anyone know more about who built and sold this for the CPC?
Christopher

[Bryce]

It looks homemade. My guess is that someone got a Siemens 5.25 drive, built themselves a PSU for it and put it in a standard extruded case.

Bryce.

[GUNHED]

No, not homemade. At the notes you can see it's from a company. But I can't see which one.

[Bryce]

That may be the notes from Siemens for the bare drive.

Bryce.

[GUNHED]

Maybe, but whenever i bought a 5,25" drive they came without notes. Maybe Siemens added one. Mine were from Teac, Robotron, BASF etc.


Such a note (like the shown one) would make sense for the CPC464.

[cwh]

I don't think the sheet about the jumpers is from Siemens/BASF. On retrocmp.de (which I linked above) on the very bottom there is a link to the orginal manual (88 pages  ).The documentation about the drive select jumpers is on page 62. They refer to drive number #1 – #4 there, no drive letters.
So I think that notes are definitely by that unknown manufacturer which sold that drive for the CPC. It is written using a typewriter with handwritten additions to the drawing. Very different from that original documentation of the drive.
I forgot another sticker on the drive's bottom (see photo). It is in english, but it reads a bit like not written by a native english speaker. (At least for me as also a not-native speaker). So it really might originate from Germany.

I just scrolled a bit through some old German CPC Magazines. There were several adverts offering 5.25" drives not mentioning any brand and much cheaper than Vortex or Cumana.
Interesting: I found a Vortex advert in CPC Magazin 12/1985 where they wrote they are using BASF 6138 drives.

I'll check out some other Magazines - maybe I'll find an ad about this drive.

[cwh]

Do I understand it right that I can only format drive A using the standard CP/M format command?
So to format a 5.25" floppy (B on my system) for the CPC I need either a ABBA switch or use one of the disk utility programs to do that on a PC?
Did I miss any trick?

[GUNHED]

You can format drive B with CP/M and lots of other software too.

[cwh]

What I found is one should use disckit for doing that. But my CP/M 2.2 disk that came with the DD1 is missing that.

When it comes to the format command  the manual does not mention any option to define which drive to format.
So what do I get wrong, here? I am a CPC newbie (sounds strange in 2020  ).

[GUNHED]

Uhm. Try ...


FORMAT B:

[cwh]

Of course that was the first thing I tried – but that did not work.
According to the documentation (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/5/58/DDI-1_Handbuch.pdf) FORMAT takes only one argument which is the data format to use.
Another documentation (https://docplayer.org/1881008-Cp-m-2-2-anwender-handbuch-cpc-464-664-6128.html) even explicitly states that FORMAT only works with drive A.
So I try to use one of the utilities for PC. Data exchange CPC<->Modern-World is the only use case for this, anyway.

[GUNHED]

Can you somehow get a DSK to a real disc? Then look at cpc-power for format tools.

Can you use a ROM-Box? / Flash ROM? Lots of DOSes have their format RSX commands.


Can you get a 3" disc with DISCKIT2.COM from somewhere?
I see you're in Germany. PM me if you need such a disc. (Even if it will take some day to perpare/send it).

[GeoffB17]

Hello,

I've got a 5.25" drive attached to my PCW.   This is as B:, and in my case it's a 40t drive which is formatted as a 360k drive, the intention being to provide PC disk compatibility   I was using it this way for a long time.

Then, when my A: drive failed (now repaired) I used the 5.25" drive as A: for a while, using a SSSD format, and the Amstrad DISCKIT worked fine.  This could well be the case for you too, but this needs to be A:.

I don't know what options are allowed for B: on the CPC, and what DISCKIT expects there, but this may assume that B: is the 80t DSDD disk.

While I was getting my drive working as A:, I needed a working disk to get going.   I used the 22DISK system on a PC to format a disk of the required structure, which according to the docs in your post is a standard A: SS format.   I don't think the CPC needs the XDPB info in the first sector, so you don't need to worry about that.   22DISK will happily work for A: or B:, but of course you need a 5.25" drive on your PC and I'm not sure if you have that.  I still have some 5.25" disks formatted for A:, and could create more using 22DISK (I think I did them as SYSTEM format, but could do them as DATA, but explicitly for the CPC they need the relevant sector numbers else they may not work).

My drive came with a format utility, but that of course was DSDD (and with the PCW sector numbers) so it would be no use to you.

Geoff

[cwh]

Hello,
thank you all for your hints. I have a DOS-PC with a 5,25" Floppy. So I tried 22DISK using a 40t and a 80t disk format for Amstrad. I was not successful to read them on the CPC but I haven't tried all possible options, yet.

The point is, that I cannot be sure whether it is the disk's or the drive's fault. The drive makes strange sounds - however in one of the websites above I read something like "that strange noises are normal for that drive". I will investigate further but that will take some time. First I have to move to my new flat.
Sooner or later you will read about my progress – or setback.
Cheers,Christopher

[Bryce]

If you run out of ideas, you can send it over to me (I'm in Köln) and I'll take a look at it for you.

Bryce.