PlayCity aka CTC-AY (MX4) for August !!!

[SyX]

I don't doubt it has a thousand uses, but the ASIC had the same and nobody really used the interrupt facilities on that for more than graduated screens. I am however full of admiration for guys that can combine soft and hardware. I looked at FPGA's and CPLD and it makes little sense to me as a old skool z80 guy. Perhaps my dream is a cartridge that has a 512k rom with additional graphic/sound hardware built in cheap enough that we could release individual games on them.

Of course, without software support these things are a mere anecdote. But adding the interrupt generator makes a normal CPC more similar to the CPC+, sure no sprites or extended palette, but who knows what the future will bring.

The original prototype has a cartridge port and that was our idea as you can see in the picture:
[attachimg=1]
But there is not cartridge software and the rom game compo was a disaster, there was more than 30 teams registered and at the end, 28 of them did not released anything (me included, even if i could use the "we were building this expansion" card) and thanks for the two surprise entries we reach 4.

We got four fantastic games that is the only good thing, because the competition itself was disappointing. And our idea of releasing the original board with a cartridge with all the competition games was aborted, because we only could fill 1/4 of the minimal rom chip (the 256 KBs).

And after the competition, a few of the teams that took part the last year, expressed that they were not interested in taking part in future editions by the lack of competency. And the only person asking about this year edition was Gryzor, the person that sponsor the last year, nobody else.

I don't see a lot of interest in CPC cartridge games, and i can promise that we would love to release the cartridge port and those nice cartridges with its "cpc black" plastic covers and they are cheap enough for making possible small releases of less than 50 units of a game.

For my a CPC with this board is more near of the CPC i always dream, and i'm only at two expansions boards of making real my dream CPC

[Trebmint]

Well development is always the hard part, as I've learned with my involvement with symbos. I hope that my Unify project might be a partial solution if adopted, but I guess we will see on that. I'd certainly like to develop with the X-Mem & PlayCity.


Is there any news on the boards adoption within emulators, especially Winape?

[ralferoo]

The raster thing would be useful for more than rasters. The first thing I'm thinking of is chunky mode display. Most of the work in Sugarlumps was carefully cycle counting the raster effect whilst doing other useful things, this expansion board makes that trivial.

[TotO]

Great page done by SyX : PlayCity - CPCWiki

Don't miss the download section including more examples with full sources of using the CTC, a customized arkos player that let you play songs using an external YMZ and the ReSeT party demo disk that includes a CPC version of the PT3 Turbo Sound player (6 channels song format) !!!

[steve]

The original prototype has a cartridge port and that was our idea as you can see in the picture:
[attachimg=1]
But there is not cartridge software......

I don't see a lot of interest in CPC cartridge games, and i can promise that we would love to release the cartridge port and those nice cartridges with its "cpc black" plastic covers and they are cheap enough for making possible small releases of less than 50 units of a game.

The "converting games to rom" thread has produced hundreds of 16k rom files, far more than a 512k flash rom can contain, we NEED a cartridge port for the CPC 464/664/6128, and since it doesn't need to be plus compatible, how about a 2MB or  4MB cartridge to hold all those games or maybe 1 large game .
I am waiting, like many others for Bluebrothers to make the cartridge cases, however the caes you have in your picture sounds like it might be okay, where did you get it?, is it commercially produced?, in a few years time we may have stacks of cartridges instead of stacks of disks and cassettes.
If you do not make an X4 cartridge board then maybe you could do a CF/SD "hard drive" card for the X4 bus.

[SyX]

Three likes in a row!!! Where is my price? 

@Trebmint: With respect to emu support, that depends in if the emulator authors are interested. All the information is now in the link the PlayCity page in the CPCWiki, that TotO has just linked and we are open to answer to any doubt anybody has about the board.

Markus, as always , was very enthusiastic and added really fast the extra YMZs to the miniversion that let me patch and code the music players.

Adding the YMZs should not be a problem, it's only two more PSGs with variable frequency. The CTC is more complex, but it should not be too much complicated.

@ralferoo: You always sound as music in my ears, jajaja.

[TotO]

@steve : All the work done for converting games in ROM is great as that can be used on 512K ROM boards.

[SyX]

The "converting games to rom" thread has produced hundreds of 16k rom files, far more than a 512k flash rom can contain, we NEED a cartridge port for the CPC 464/664/6128, and since it doesn't need to be plus compatible, how about a 2MB or  4MB cartridge to hold all those games or maybe 1 large game .
I am waiting, like many others for Bluebrothers to make the cartridge cases, however the caes you have in your picture sounds like it might be okay, where did you get it?, is it commercially produced?, in a few years time we may have stacks of cartridges instead of stacks of disks and cassettes.

Sure, but repacking old games in cartridges doesn't sound as sexy as having new games designed for this format... imagine, MacDeath could not more complain about games designed for 48 KBs of RAM + TAPE

[steve]

@steve : All the work done for converting games in ROM is great as that can be used on 512K ROM boards.

We are going to need an X12 motherboard to hold 8 512k rom boards plus 4 other cards.

[TotO]

 

[MacDeath]

Yes. That allow the CPC speaker to replay the audio channels.
You are not forced to  use the external stereo jack.

But CPC and AY sound soooo much better when connected to a real stereo Hi-Fi hardware...
would be a crime to juste utilise the internal speaker*...

*in frenglitch

All the work done for converting games in ROM is great as that can be used on 512K ROM boards.

One good thing but harder to achieve : get some big games like Pirates! of Defender of the crown to actually use the "444k RAMdisk"... these games would be complete win with full use of those extra RAM... no real loading time, well, need to fully load once, then load/write time when managing gamesaves...
then no more than really a few seconds to process RAMdisk datas... as an Old PC would do when processing from HDD... would feel like a slight lag at worse... (but like 3-4 minutes of full loading the  3inch floppy's 1-2 disk sides...to begin with... at worst)

but beware of disconection or power shortage... lol, not so different on PC or even iPad, to be honnest.
Yet I suppose this would need a complete re-address of the whole loading routines and stuffs.

still I hope someone will do some games or Demo will full use of both CTC-AY+ X-Mem + CPC6xx config.

Considering what Batman demo gave use, such full use would really bring CPC to an almost classic 16bit computer level... with its specificity off course, but with its full potential really used.
imagine if Batman demo would not waste NOP/CPU time to load from Disk Drive as it displays/calculate/kills other 8bit computers (and 16bits as well) ?
This is what is possible with a CPC 6-572k...

Tape+64K : Beaking Baud... yeah, great (really)
Disk+128K : Batman Begins : wow, awesome...
Disk + 572RAM+512kROM : er... seriously ? this is the next step to great achievement for our "humble" belove 30 year old Hardware.

Some Democoders would argue that the issue is CRTC  type "X" again CRTC  type "Y" or "Z"...
Other would say it is CPC vs PLUS...
Perhaps Gamemaker would simply put it into 464vs6128...
I say it is underRAMed Vs ProperlyRAMed (=maxed) (with disk of course but you can load the mass from MP3/CD/Tape drive actually... )

You can put 50€uros into a 64gigas USB stick, or 80+ €uros into a 1Terrabit HDD... why not 80€uros into some decent boost for your CPC ?
Totally worse it.


Concerning the PLUS features, I agree that the CTC-AY is to be seen as an update into an "half plus" specification type...
like the Atari Mega ST was compared to STF and STE...

MegaST had the Blitter yet still the 512 palette instead of the 4096, no extra sound channels (if i remember correctly) but still some few STe features on a classic ST(F)...

Toto managed to bring some great specs update for all Amstrad CPC/Plus computers, be it RAM or those extra sound channels or timers that could really give fuckhuge results.


compared to those post-1985 16bit computers, CPC was clearly underRAMed.
yeah CPU can only handle "64K" at once but still...
16bit computers were powerfull not only thx to CPU but mostly thx to fuckhuge RAM or DMA oriented MassData storages.

I remember drearly my first "IBM" MS-Dos compatible PC : AT286@12mhz + EGA + 512 (then 640) K and dual Disk Drive (HD5"1/2 + HD3"1/2) then also 80meg HDD... (no freaking sound card, jsut this underused beeper that could still manage "realsound samples, still no freaking volume potentiometer...)

To be fair, this "bureautic beast" could run irs share of decent Might and Magic 3, Low blow, Ghostbuster2 (PC version, not Ocean one) or Fighter Bomber, LHX attack chopper, Indiana Jones/Loom, Indianapolis500, Populous, SIM City, Speaball2, Xenon 2, Commander Keen 1-6... and many more... with baddass efficiency...

Not only because of the power of the actually underused CPU/EGA video card (MS-Dos wasn't really using those well indeed...) but because I had those fast access HD disk drives, this HDD 80megs and "freaking huge" 512-640RAM + multiload from said Massdata storages...


Atari ST :
"VRAM" : 32K...
CPU : 8mhz
Sound : 2mhz "AY compatible" YM.
RAM : 512K, or 1024K...

Amstrad CPC :
"VRAM" from 12K (speccy sized screen) to 16K (full normal sized screen) to 2x16k (24K) full full-screen
CPU : 4mhz turned into 3.3mhz or even less
Sound : 1mhz YM compatible AY (lol)
RAM ? 64K + tape (or at best 128K never really used...)


This does not compute... can't really get gameplay contents with a 16bit computer comparable complexity level.
had to stick to speccy48 specs... WTF ?
Most oldschool games on 16biters were nice because many cinematic graphics, different music for each stages, different tiles set for each levels, samples on in-between levels cinematics and so on... all this is not due to hardsprites or extra chainsaw sound signal but simply "massive" (= practical) RAM/fast DATA storage capacity...

Remember Bitmap brother's games ? as good on ST as on Amiga : total badassery...
Basically ST is just a souped up Amstrad CPC, but thx to RAM and 720K disks : had those neat intros with sampled music and nice splitraster
intensive graphic pages and vertical scrolltexts... GODS is simply perfect on ST... somewhat just better on Amiga but hey...

CPC is not to have animations in action games really like Amiga, but many adventure/wargame/strategy/turn-based games could really get this 16bit level of gameplay/complexity and shittons of graphical/sound contents...
And provided you don't have to stick to "artificial specifications (=464 = speccy48+tape) you can design games to be far more efficients (see R-Type128K, Rick Dangerous 128PLUS and so on...)

Many good "computer games" are just a massive database management with some nice graphics dislayed... yeah CPC is not a "console".
good news : computers actually ucked at "console type games".
But have you even seen SIMcity or Pirates! or Populous or dungeonMaster/Might&Magic/Bardstale on Arcade machines ?
Yeah, on some consoles...
but no keyboards + no disk to "load-save with no limit" = total suckness...
(oh, also mouse... well it is not like CPC cannot have mouse, ask Bryce)



All this only thx to TotO's cards and dedication (or competitors of course) and Syx too for its plAY-CiTy design, the 16bit feeling is now really available even on an "humble" Amstrad CPC464... and the recently released FloppyDiskController card is good as well. .


oops, I know i shouldn't post while a bit tipsy/drunk/completely wasted...
Guess I again edited too much this post, I'm on vacancy...lol.
Sorry guys.

[McKlain]

Yeah, massive storage and all, but don't forget about having a 16bit CPU.

[TFM]

Yeah, massive storage and all, but don't forget about having a 16bit CPU.

For the usage of the eZ80 I would suggest the redesign of the CPC hardware to enable more than 8 bit data lines to all periphery. Of course this will be a totally different computer...

Great news and very good job as we used to see now !!
Hope that the board will come with a "demonstration" on the disc , as shown at the ReSeT

For the Sound part you can use Cyber Chicken as demonstration.
Other software is on it's way...

[TFM]

Cool stuff. So this is really just an audio card unless I'm missing something? I cant see rasters being much use other than in demos, since we've only got 27 colours.


Has anyone contacted Richard to get this and X-Mem into Winape?

It's not about rasters, it's about having a free programmable timer which can give you NMIs at exactly the time you need it. That's good for FDC routines and anything else too. Rasters only serve as an example. 


Since the X-MEM is fully compatible to the Amstrad standard, it's of course already included in emulators.

[TotO]

The main problem about emulators is that they don't support real rom/flash board, but only individual ROM on the selected slots.
So, you can't properly use softwares or doing development tests with them.

[TFM]

So true!!!

[MacDeath]

The main issue with emulators is that they are quite limited in the peripherals they emulate...

Basically :
=tape, cartridges (if PLUS), disks...
=extra RAM and ROM.
and that's all...

Good emulators should include Vocal synthetizers, HDD, lightpen, network/modem  per examples.

Some can use "internet" with a CPC464 (see youtube...). Why can't an emulator do that , most PC have everything needed to allow that.



Hey, nice to have those rasters...
I guess someone could do that then :



Wht about "split line colour change" ? (not sure about the way to name that)
Mode5 should now have it easier I guess and would not use all CPU so it can be mixed with some animation perhaps ?

[Trebmint]

The main issue with emulators is that they are quite limited in the peripherals they emulate...

Basically :
=tape, cartridges (if PLUS), disks...
=extra RAM and ROM.
and that's all...

Good emulators should include Vocal synthetizers, HDD, lightpen, network/modem  per examples.

Some can use "internet" with a CPC464 (see youtube...). Why can't an emulator do that , most PC have everything needed to allow that.



Hey, nice to have those rasters...
I guess someone could do that then :



Wht about "split line colour change" ? (not sure about the way to name that)
Mode5 should now have it easier I guess and would not use all CPU so it can be mixed with some animation perhaps ?

Though that image is amazing, its also really difficult to do, and is very limited for instance you couldn't change one of those images. Personally this is the sort of thing that yes its possible but is actually only of any use in the real world for a on-the-rails demo type program. Adding 10x the memory and then making the those bytes trickier to fill by interrupt images seems counter intuitive... yes it can be done, but will anyone? What we need to fill 512k of Roms is coders giving up their engine code... better mapping or any mapping tools, and a new generation of PC 2 CPC graphic conversion and art software

[MacDeath]

Though that image is amazing, its also really difficult to do, and is very limited for instance you couldn't change one of those images. Personally this is the sort of thing that yes its possible but is actually only of any use in the real world for a on-the-rails demo type program. Adding 10x the memory and then making the those bytes trickier to fill by interrupt images seems counter intuitive... yes it can be done, but will anyone? What we need to fill 512k of Roms is coders giving up their engine code... better mapping or any mapping tools, and a new generation of PC 2 CPC graphic conversion and art software

wot ?
I fail to understand lol...

are you talking about "mode5" or the picture I posted ?

The picture I posted is quite simple, it just use normal vertical palette changes and is supposed to be possible on a simple CPC.

uses only 8 colours on screen... in mode1

white & Black are common on all the screen...
others are as follow (from top to bottom) :
=pink+orange
=pink+blue
=dark yellow+blue
=pink+blue
=grey+dark cyan
The palette colour changes are to be somewhat line perfect... this is the trick : if you handle well to the exact line the palette change, with picture composition you may think the colours are crossing


This is supposed to be some dialogue screen for adventure games or cinematic dialogue screen... the black parts could get some text, perhaps scrolling or whatever.
Graphics were converted and redrawn from some dawn of war stuff (warhammer 40K)

needless to say it could be patched on a Plus with some neat Hardsprites for even extra colours on some details, doing a great many-coloured Mode1 effect.

[SyX]

What we need to fill 512k of Roms is coders giving up their engine code... better mapping or any mapping tools, and a new generation of PC 2 CPC graphic conversion and art software

And time, much more time...  or winning the lottery

@MacDeath: Mode5 is not wasting time, all its cycles are well used in changing colours... but yes, we can change colours without need to wait to the next GA interrupt (more colourful Le 5 Axe ). Personally we added the interrupt generator to bring the CPCs and CPC+s near, nor split them. For example, my raster tests were developed in a CPC+ emulator and changing a label, you can generate code for the CPC+ or the CPC with the CTC.

[Gryzor]

A bit off-topic, guys, but I'm trying to troubleshoot something; can someone who HASN'T Liked the first post do so and notify me by posting here and mentioning me (@Gryzor)? Thanks...

[CraigsBar]

A bit off-topic, guys, but I'm trying to troubleshoot something; can someone who HASN'T Liked the first post do so and notify me by posting here and mentioning me (@Gryzor)? Thanks...

@Gryzor Liked, Hope this helps

[Gryzor]

Thanks man, I appreciate it

[ralferoo]

@Gryzor I've just added my like to the first post too. I'd previously liked a different post in this thread but not the first...

[Gryzor]

Thanks, it's ok; seems like 15 Likes hits a limit and if one more is given they don't show up...