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avatar_abalore

Plus2CPC. Plus cartridge slot for the CPC

Started by abalore, 09:35, 27 May 21

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GUNHED

Quote from: abalore on 02:05, 28 May 21
When plugged into a Plus expansion port, it serves as a secondary cartridge port, so you can leave the system cartridge always in the computer and use the secondary port to load games or to replace the operating system.
Wow, this is getting better and better!!!  :) :) :)


In case you're going to produce a batch of these cool boards, then please put me an the waiting list (taking one for the Centronics connector please).
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2023.11.30)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.12.26)

abalore

Cardboard prototype case. In the 6128 it rests on top of the table. The 464 users will have to be more careful pushing or to add some legs  :D




abalore

Quote from: GUNHED on 15:14, 28 May 21
Wow, this is getting better and better!!!  :) :) :)


In case you're going to produce a batch of these cool boards, then please put me an the waiting list (taking one for the Centronics connector please).
Hmm, I didn't think of making Centronics connector version, but why not? I can assemble one for you.
There is a waiting list indeed, you are in the position 11

GUNHED

Quote from: abalore on 16:48, 28 May 21
Hmm, I didn't think of making Centronics connector version, but why not? I can assemble one for you.
There is a waiting list indeed, you are in the position 11
If you don't have a centronics connector at hand, no problem. Then I can solder them by myself.
The CPC6128 in German had Centronics like the 6128plus had.
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2023.11.30)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.12.26)

ikonsgr

#29
Nice project, but i think that this new "trend" of releasing games/demos in "512k Rom only" formats, narrows a lot the usability potential....
Since now there are widely accepted devices, like M4 or USIfAC II (there are more than 1000 Amstrad users with M4 boards, and USIfAC II early reception looks very promising too), which offer very fast direct file access from massive storage devices like sdcards or usb flash drives (where practically there is no limit in size of game data, even creating a 100MB game is perfectly doable... ;D ), why not offer a "mass storage" option too?
For example, couldn't be possible to have a mass storage version of slapfight alcon too?  ::)

abalore

#30
Quote from: ikonsgr on 23:40, 28 May 21
For example, couldn't be possible to have a mass storage version of slapfight alcon too?  ::)
Mass storage devices have huge capacity, but only a minimal portion of the data is available in RAM at a given time. The process of loading a file into RAM, yet faster than a floppy disk, it's still very slow for high demand real-time games. A ROM game, one specifically designed for ROM like Alcon, needs to have immediate access to all 512KB of data at all times. In a typical gameplay frame in Alcon, about 50 bank switchings are required between about 20 different ROM banks. So definitely a game like Alcon can't be implemented in a mass storage version. Other games like slow paced, low RAM requirement graphical adventures could be, I think.

About if it's convenient or not a device like this, I don't feel authorized to give an opinion. I just offer things that are useful for me, then people will use them if they find useful too.
As a game developer, I'd like a quick and cheap way to distribute my 512K games. "One cartridge to rule them all". Alcon2020 is available in Plus cartridge format as a free download, many people made their own physical cartridges. But this is limited to the Plus users, if CPC users were able to make and play their own cartridges investing a small amount to add a cartridge port to their computer, I think that would be good.



ikonsgr

#31
Ok,i see. In practice ROM is treated like a "read only" RAM expansion :)
So, i suppose the other alternative,instead of making rom cartridges, could  be to utilize a 512k RAM expansion, right?
Of course this would require to implement  RAM bank switching instead of rom bank switching in your code, but if i'm not mistaken, this shouldn't be very hard to do, right?
Instead of constantly issuing Rom select address OUTS to &DF00, you would have to give Ram bank switching OUTs to  &7F00?  :)


TotO

Quote from: ikonsgr on 07:48, 29 May 21
Ok,i see. In practice ROM is treated like a "read only" RAM expansion :)
Read Only Memory. You got it. ;D  (mass storage is not memory)
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

abalore

Quote from: ikonsgr on 07:48, 29 May 21
Ok,i see. In practice ROM is treated like a "read only" RAM expansion :)
Yes

Quote from: ikonsgr on 07:48, 29 May 21So, i suppose the other alternative,instead of making rom cartridges, could  be to utilize a 512k RAM expansion, right?
No. In practice you have direct access to 128K only, because of the CPC RAM bank switching scheme. To be able to use the remaining 384K in any meaningful way you need to have a part of your program in ROM. And if you need a ROM anyway, do it all in ROM.


ikonsgr

Quote from: abalore on 12:37, 29 May 21
No. In practice you have direct access to 128K only, because of the CPC RAM bank switching scheme. To be able to use the remaining 384K in any meaningful way you need to have a part of your program in ROM. And if you need a ROM anyway, do it all in ROM.

Well,i don't think this is quite right. Amstrad cpc natively supports direct access to, not only 128k, but up to eight 64k banks (+64 basic ram=576k of total ram)! Furthermore there are 8 different RAM configurations to select from, which gives you huge ram management flexibility!
And this selection of memory bank+ram configuration can be  done instantly using a simple out &7fxx.



abalore

#35
Quote from: ikonsgr on 15:18, 29 May 21
Well,i don't think this is quite right. Amstrad cpc natively supports direct access to, not only 128k, but up to eight 64k banks (+64 basic ram=576k of total ram)! Furthermore there are 8 different RAM configurations to select from, which gives you huge ram management flexibility!
And this selection of memory bank+ram configuration can be  done instantly using a simple out &7fxx.

Easy, make a 512K RAM game and show us how it is done. Accessing all the 512KB without having to copy between banks and having access to 2 vram buffers at all times.

(By the way, Alcon uses 3 VRAM buffers, so it would be impossible anyway)

ikonsgr

This is definetely not my field of expertise :)
But don't get me wrong, i just wanted to point out the fact that Amstrad cpc CAN natively direct access up to 576kb of ram, thourgh the existed ram bank & configuration scheme  :)
Now, if this is something that allows you an alternative way to make large ROM games, is something that i can't answer  :)

abalore

Quote from: ikonsgr on 15:58, 29 May 21
This is definetely not my field of expertise :)
But don't get me wrong, i just wanted to point out the fact that Amstrad cpc CAN natively direct access up to 576kb of ram, thourgh the existed ram bank & configuration scheme  :)
Now, if this is something that allows you an alternative way to make large ROM games, is something that i can't answer  :)
Yes, probably good games can be done in that way, not Alcon but other less demanding (in VRAM usage) games. But the premise of my project is to distribute big games in an easy and cheap way for the final user:
- Easy: plug the cartridge, turn on the computer and play the game.
- Cheap: Zero euros for Plus owners, and a cheap one time invest for CPC users (around 10 €).
The alternative of mass storage + RAM expansion:
- Not easy: You need to install 2 devices, probably requiring extra supply to power all the stuff, and type commands to run the games.
- Not cheap: You need a mass storage device and a RAM expansion. I doubt you can get both things for less than 50 euros in the best case.

TotO

#38
I'm still waiting the big adventure games and SCUMM ports that require more than 10MB storage to run properly on CPC since 5 years ago. I think that peoples are free to use the more appropriated media to release their games. Tape, Floppy Disc, Cartridge, DLC, ...
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

XeNoMoRPH

Orion Prime 2  :laugh:  !!! With massive graphics and sounds  :D
your amstrad news source in spanish language : https://auamstrad.es

GUNHED

Quote from: abalore on 15:35, 29 May 21
Easy, make a 512K RAM game and show us how it is done. Accessing all the 512KB without having to copy between banks and having access to 2 vram buffers at all times.
Easy. True. Did this years ago with "Tribute to the sisters". It can even use up to 4 MB.  8)  However I use 32 KB screen memory overscan, no screen switching, still 50 fps.  :)
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2023.11.30)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.12.26)

abalore


https://youtu.be/0chpufIZIh0
Above all I'm a player, so I made a cartridge with a compilation of some of my favorite games, to test the Plus2CPC board and to get some fun!

GUNHED

A reset button would save the power switch of your CPC.
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2023.11.30)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.12.26)

abalore

#43
Quote from: GUNHED on 15:47, 30 May 21
A reset button would save the power switch of your CPC.
Yes. I probably will add one. It's good for compilations like the one I posted, but I must remind people than removing or inserting a cartridge requires to turn off the computer always. That's the reason the Plus locks the cartridge with the power button.

GUNHED

Yes, especially when using the C4CPC.
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2023.11.30)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.12.26)

abalore

I'm waiting for the parts to arrive, in the meantime I'm preparing an enclosure:


zhulien

this is awesome, as awesome as the other DES project https://auamstrad.es/des/


I'd love it if both carts could be plugged in

eto

Quote from: zhulien on 11:17, 03 June 21this is awesome, as awesome as the other DES project

IMHO it's even more awesome.

- Plus owners don't necessarily need an add-on
- DES is not compatible with the GX4000

Not quite sure about the pricing but it might even be cheaper than the DES base.

So in theory you produce a high quality physical release for ALL CPC based computers where many don't need the base at all and all others get it for (hopefully) a more acceptable price.

The only advantage that i see for the DES is, that it's currently still easy to get the cartridge cases in high quality and quantities, while for the Plus2CPC we probably would see 3d printed cases.








abalore

Quote from: eto on 13:44, 03 June 21
IMHO it's even more awesome.

- Plus owners don't necessarily need an add-on
- DES is not compatible with the GX4000

Not quite sure about the pricing but it might even be cheaper than the DES base.

So in theory you produce a high quality physical release for ALL CPC based computers where many don't need the base at all and all others get it for (hopefully) a more acceptable price.

The only advantage that i see for the DES is, that it's currently still easy to get the cartridge cases in high quality and quantities, while for the Plus2CPC we probably would see 3d printed cases.
You absolutely got the idea.

eto

Would it be an option to add a simplified Playcity compatible sound to it? I am not sure if it requires a lot of logic or would drastically increase the price but if not, maybe it's an option to add the circuit/sockets for it to the expansion board already and then (for those that care) you can buy and put in in the YM chips. Or order them as an optional item.

With ROM based games, so much more is possible, but the 3 channel sound is still so limiting. I am not a big fan of adding high quality samples sound or MP3 capabilities as imho it always sounds strange and misplaced. But 6 more YM channels would just be plain awesome and no need to add another (not available) add-on card - and it's still 100% "era correct".

I am aware that you could end up with many requests to add more features but I am specifically asking only for the Playcity YM part which seems to be me as it could be a simple but game changing (pun intended) upgrade.

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