Author Topic: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...  (Read 4558 times)

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Offline VintageAdvantage

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RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« on: 01:55, 16 April 21 »

https://youtu.be/DykFhtNbgGk

Anybody got a stock of NOS Gate Arrays somewhere?
« Last Edit: 04:56, 16 April 21 by VintageAdvantage »

Offline pelrun

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #1 on: 07:41, 16 April 21 »
Piotr is claiming in the video comments that he just got them from UTSource...

I have doubts.
« Last Edit: 07:45, 16 April 21 by pelrun »

Offline tjohnson

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #2 on: 11:01, 16 April 21 »
UTSource

You think he strip parts from actual machines?

Offline Bryce

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #3 on: 11:37, 16 April 21 »
He had to have taken the GA's from original machines. UTSource don't offer them and there's is no known source for them anywhere else.

Bryce.

Offline eto

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #4 on: 11:57, 16 April 21 »
He had to have taken the GA's from original machines. UTSource don't offer them and there's is no known source for them anywhere else.

Bryce.

Not too long ago he posted a picture on Facebook with 10 (or so) 40010. It would be a pity to get them from working machines to build new working machines.


Offline Ygdrazil

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #5 on: 12:10, 16 April 21 »
Hi There

It's a crazy case of cannibalism if the Zaxxon dude simply takes old gatearrays and put them into new motherboards :picard: And this only  for cosmetic gains...

This stuff will not be something for me, before there is a real GA raplacement!

Just my opinion

/Ygdrazil



He had to have taken the GA's from original machines. UTSource don't offer them and there's is no known source for them anywhere else.

Bryce.

Offline Sykobee (Briggsy)

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #6 on: 14:30, 16 April 21 »
I thought the GA logic was decoded, so could a small FPGA or microcontroller (with enough I/O for the GA I/O including three analogue pins for RGB out to replace the tristate outputs on the GA) be used these days (counted on a compatible package)? Obviously someone would have to do the work, which is probably a bit of a pain.

Offline Bryce

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #7 on: 16:50, 16 April 21 »
I thought the GA logic was decoded, so could a small FPGA or microcontroller (with enough I/O for the GA I/O including three analogue pins for RGB out to replace the tristate outputs on the GA) be used these days (counted on a compatible package)? Obviously someone would have to do the work, which is probably a bit of a pain.

I think it's already being worked on, but I forget who is doing it.

Bryce.

Offline thomas

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #8 on: 17:39, 16 April 21 »
watched RMCs video last night. Was a bit disappointed when - to the end of the video - he revealed the GA was coming from another CPC. So yes, he (Z., not RMC) seems to butcher working or at least repairable machines, unless he somehow found ten CPCs in the woods lying there for 30 years. Z. also advertised the "Just CPC 2" (a replica 464 MB) on FB, but left my question concerning the ULA unanswered ... :-(


 Here on the wiki there is a 10 pages long thread "somewhere" discussing an FPGA replacement, but I can't find it either at the moment and couldn't yet grasp it completely,  since the relevant information is scattered ...


Offline eto

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Offline VintageAdvantage

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #10 on: 18:12, 16 April 21 »
To the RetroCaveMan's credit, he might not know about how serious this issue of CPC
for Gate Array butchering is (and how essential these chips are to keep real CPCs working!).
Please send any leftover GA to Bryce so he can do his work!

IF the chips are from real CPCs, then I think it is a violation of the Code of Conduct for Vintage Computer Collectors, and I would have assumed that prominent figures such as RCM would be aware and more sensitive to this:

http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/ccccc.htm

  • I will do my damnest to find a home for any classic or unwanted computer.   
  • I will return or destroy any personal or commercially sensitive data I find on a machine I acquire, and will keep it in the strictest confidence, should I find it necessary to view it.   
  • I will aid users in the decomissioning of their machines, should they require assistance. 
  • I will respect active software and publication copyrights. 
  • I will, whenever possible, repair the computers in my collection and maintain them in working order, and will assist others in doing the same, to the best of my ability.  I will actively encourage the repair, maintenance, and use of older computers, in preference to the irreversable alteration of machines and parts for non-computer applications. 
  • I will actively promote the exchange of computers, parts, and information among collectors, and will refrain from hoarding multiple examples of any item.   
  • I will actively promote ethical collecting.
But then, it is of course up to JustCPC buyers to simply swap in their own Gate Array from their real CPC. Not sure I would want to do this though.

I think the JustCPC is an impressive piece of engineering, but I also think it comes with some problems, and I would have expected a more critical and insightful discussion from the RetroCaveMan rather than just waving the Zaxon Fan Boy Flag.

« Last Edit: 18:21, 16 April 21 by VintageAdvantage »

Offline thomas

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #11 on: 19:17, 16 April 21 »
Full ack!

Offline VintageAdvantage

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #12 on: 21:14, 16 April 21 »
Is it this one???

https://www.utsource.net/itm/p/8648279.html

A mislabeled / miscategorized part?? 

I have sent an inquiry for the price... it doesn't show.
« Last Edit: 21:18, 16 April 21 by VintageAdvantage »

Offline Bryce

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #13 on: 21:42, 16 April 21 »
Is it this one???

https://www.utsource.net/itm/p/8648279.html

A mislabeled / miscategorized part?? 

I have sent an inquiry for the price... it doesn't show.

No unfortunately that's a screamingly obvious example of a chip that has been sanded down and reprinted with a part number that attracts high prices. If you are in any doubt, ask them for a picture of the whole stock and you'll see that they were all somehow produced in the same week.That example is actually worse, because they didn't even go to the bother of hiding the sanded surface.

Thanks for the recommendation above too, but to be honest, it's extremely rare that the GA is the cause of a non-working CPC. They are surprisingly robust for an ASIC. I have a "stock" of one working 40007 and 40010 which I use to confirm that that's not the issue when I am diagnosing CPC's. But I don't think I've ever had to swap one other than in cases of over-voltage.

Bryce.

Offline VintageAdvantage

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #14 on: 21:49, 16 April 21 »
Thanks for the recommendation above too, but to be honest, it's extremely rare that the GA is the cause of a non-working CPC. They are surprisingly robust for an ASIC. I have a "stock" of one working 40007 and 40010 which I use to confirm that that's not the issue when I am diagnosing CPC's. But I don't think I've ever had to swap one other than in cases of over-voltage.

That's good to hear.

Well, then these GAs that go into JustCPC are stripped from other (hopefully, not repairable) CPCs it seems.

His YouTube comments indeed mention UTSource so you are saying he is just bullshitting us, right? To the RetroCaveMan's credit, he could not have known that.

That also explains the "inquiry" process - I guess they fabricate a fake one for you on request. Like "fake on demand" or something  :D

By now, I managed to get fake GAL22V10s, SIDs, AY's, SP0256-ALs, and even Z80a's from China.  The Z80a was especially nasty, since it resulted in complete RAM destruction of the CPC. I should have known better...

Way to go!
« Last Edit: 21:57, 16 April 21 by VintageAdvantage »

Offline tjohnson

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #15 on: 10:42, 17 April 21 »
To the RetroCaveMan's credit, he might not know about how serious this issue of CPC
for Gate Array butchering is (and how essential these chips are to keep real CPCs working!).
Please send any leftover GA to Bryce so he can do his work!

IF the chips are from real CPCs, then I think it is a violation of the Code of Conduct for Vintage Computer Collectors, and I would have assumed that prominent figures such as RCM would be aware and more sensitive to this:

http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/ccccc.htm

  • I will do my damnest to find a home for any classic or unwanted computer.   
  • I will return or destroy any personal or commercially sensitive data I find on a machine I acquire, and will keep it in the strictest confidence, should I find it necessary to view it.   
  • I will aid users in the decomissioning of their machines, should they require assistance. 
  • I will respect active software and publication copyrights. 
  • I will, whenever possible, repair the computers in my collection and maintain them in working order, and will assist others in doing the same, to the best of my ability.  I will actively encourage the repair, maintenance, and use of older computers, in preference to the irreversable alteration of machines and parts for non-computer applications. 
  • I will actively promote the exchange of computers, parts, and information among collectors, and will refrain from hoarding multiple examples of any item.   
  • I will actively promote ethical collecting.
But then, it is of course up to JustCPC buyers to simply swap in their own Gate Array from their real CPC. Not sure I would want to do this though.

I think the JustCPC is an impressive piece of engineering, but I also think it comes with some problems, and I would have expected a more critical and insightful discussion from the RetroCaveMan rather than just waving the Zaxon Fan Boy Flag.


I get your point but code of conduct?  I don't like seeing good repairable computers or even working computers stripped but ultimatly if someone owns something it's their property and they can do what they like with it.  I don't agree but that's life.  I hate seeing mature trees being cut down so some dickhead can build and extension or to save them having to sweep up the leaves, I'd rather set a few plastic amstrad stripped than having decade or century old trees cut down but still it happens alot.  Sorry to rant and change subject.

Offline gerald

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #16 on: 11:21, 17 April 21 »
No unfortunately that's a screamingly obvious example of a chip that has been sanded down and reprinted with a part number that attracts high prices. If you are in any doubt, ask them for a picture of the whole stock and you'll see that they were all somehow produced in the same week.That example is actually worse, because they didn't even go to the bother of hiding the sanded surface.
Well, the picture is not that different from the 40010 I have on my CPCs  ;)

As a general note, may I remind you all that China is doing a good job at harvesting the pile of electronic waste we ship them for extracting the component.
While they may rewrite the references on the chip, or send a totally different IC, is not a general rule.
It's usually an effect of the reduced offer on high demand components. I don't think the 40010 is in that category yet.

Regarding the 40010 at utsource, they are clearly marked as used. So if you have  someone to blame for ripping a CPC, it's the one that ditched the CPC it came from  :D .



Offline pelrun

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #17 on: 12:14, 17 April 21 »
His YouTube comments indeed mention UTSource so you are saying he is just bullshitting us, right?

Before I edited it, my original comment above absolutely contained the word "bullshit".

When sending an inquiry for one of these, you should mention you're going to decap it and post photos of the insides. Wonder how long it'll be before they come back saying they no longer have any stock :D

Offline VintageAdvantage

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #18 on: 17:23, 17 April 21 »
I get your point but code of conduct?  I don't like seeing good repairable computers or even working computers stripped but ultimatly if someone owns something it's their property and they can do what they like with it.  I don't agree but that's life.  I hate seeing mature trees being cut down so some dickhead can build and extension or to save them having to sweep up the leaves, I'd rather set a few plastic amstrad stripped than having decade or century old trees cut down but still it happens alot.  Sorry to rant and change subject.

Well, trees (and dickheads) grow back - 40010's don't  :laugh: But I see your point.  ;)
« Last Edit: 17:27, 17 April 21 by VintageAdvantage »

Offline VintageAdvantage

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #19 on: 17:45, 17 April 21 »
Regarding the 40010 at utsource, they are clearly marked as used. So if you have  someone to blame for ripping a CPC, it's the one that ditched the CPC it came from  :D .

PROVIDED they are really the source of Zaxon's Gate Arrays... I am actively trying to purchase one or two of these. Maybe let's assume for now that these are indeed real working Gate Arrays from this source that Zaxon is using. But so far, my "inquiry request" for a quote has not yielded any response... we will see. In any case, there is no way that they have a stock *33951*  (yes, almost thirty four thousand!) 40010... how many old CPCs do you think have been dumped to China? That HAS to be B***S***.
« Last Edit: 17:49, 17 April 21 by VintageAdvantage »

Offline pelrun

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #20 on: 18:17, 17 April 21 »
Zaxon's history with making CPC hardware up to this point has been consistently poor. And his explanation for his source is too damn convenient, given that every other attempt by the community to find NOS GA's over the past decade or more has been a failure.
Until he provides actual proof to the contrary, I'm going to stay convinced that he deliberately ripped the chips out of working CPC's in order to sell his products, and lied about it.

Offline VintageAdvantage

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #21 on: 18:56, 17 April 21 »
He also claims that he sold > 400 JustSpeccys... which is of course an entirely different story, because the Spectrum community has a reengineered ULA (SLAM ULA). So great for him - but please stay away from our beloved CPCs and their GAs for your zombie creations - UNTIL we have an (FPGA) GA replacement for the CPC.

EDIT: It's actually more like Frankenstein creation  ;)
EDIT2:  I admire his skills - but I will not be getting a JustCPC before we have a GA replacement.
« Last Edit: 18:59, 17 April 21 by VintageAdvantage »

Offline Bryce

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #22 on: 21:11, 17 April 21 »
He also claims that he sold > 400 JustSpeccys... which is of course an entirely different story, because the Spectrum community has a reengineered ULA (SLAM ULA). So great for him - but please stay away from our beloved CPCs and their GAs for your zombie creations - UNTIL we have an (FPGA) GA replacement for the CPC.

EDIT: It's actually more like Frankenstein creation  ;)
EDIT2:  I admire his skills - but I will not be getting a JustCPC before we have a GA replacement.

What skills exactly? He "copy / pastes" existing schematics together and then messes up the routing. I've repaired several of these due to one particular routing fiasco.

Bryce.

Offline TotO

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #23 on: 21:35, 17 April 21 »
Exactly. copy, clone, burn, no support... But peoples looks happy to deal with that.
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Offline arkive

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Re: RetroManCave loves JustCPC...
« Reply #24 on: 12:47, 18 April 21 »
Seems this thread is turning into a bit of a witchhunt. Zaxxon has an account here, so perhaps it's worth slowing down a bit unless he presents his side of the story.

Personally I'm also not a big fan of people harvesting old machines for parts to build something new, if they could be repaired instead. But I'll withhold my judgement until  I hear what he has to say or there is a concrete evidence of some foolery.

As for the other, completely unrelated to the issue at hand stuff, I can only say that I've dealt with Zaxxon multiple times, his gadgets/repairs  were always solid, and he was always helpful enough. He also has 100% positive feedback both on the "Polish ebay" (allegro.pl) and also 99.9% on sellmyretro, from thousands of customers. So that's also something to consider.