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General Category => Amstrad CPC hardware => Topic started by: TMTLOGIC on 22:15, 30 April 18

Title: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 22:15, 30 April 18

You can already see on the site www.tmtlogic.com, we are working on a new version of the SYMBiFACE III
At the moment, a prototype has started that has the following functions:


USB mass storage device FAT32   is tested with an speed of 700Kb/sec
USB wireless mouse
512 KB RAM
RTC + batt.
OLED display


All this functions are tested by SymbOS
Drivers are written through Prodatron


We are going to make a better version, and I am interested in ideas what the CPC user would want for new possibilities









Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: rpalmer on 01:18, 01 May 18
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 22:15, 30 April 18
USB mass storage device FAT32   is tested with an speed of 700Kb/sec

Is the speed from the CPC or from the interface to the USB?

If from the CPC then how did you get such since at 4MHz the CPC cannot even get close (is about 180Kbytes).

rpalmer
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 01:35, 01 May 18
it is the ARM transfer speed. the data is handled with fifo,s, on the z80
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 02:33, 01 May 18
What ARM are you using?
What clock rate?
Is the firmware "open" such that people could patch it / re-flash it?
How about the address decoder etc? Xilinx CPLD or something else?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 15:02, 01 May 18
Improved sound chip maybe?  ;D
Snapshot like winape
machine code monitor
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 17:05, 01 May 18
IMHO ROM would be very,very,very intersting too, so then a second Extension card is no longer necessary.

i dont know, if it's possible to connect a usb-keyboard, with or without a special CPC-Extension-ROM (or patched OS-ROM).
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 17:34, 01 May 18
- Add general purpose GPIO: digital, relay, analog
- Maybe 6digit LED display
- Maybe even add a socket for
  https://www.mikroe.com/click
  boards
- Users can do anything they like with that setup then
- However, firmware needs to be open such that users can upload their own firmware
  and required drivers for ClickBoards



Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 23:58, 01 May 18

Thanx for you ideas,


the demand for a multi IO board with mikroe board has been asked more often by me.
I'm not going to make this because there are only a few people who can program this
However, you will have to work it is not all bite-sized chunks at all.
You can download example programs from Mikroe

I also started Arduino ( an button with a led ) three years ago  :P
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 06:00, 02 May 18
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 23:58, 01 May 18
the demand for a multi IO board with mikroe board has been asked more often by me.
I'm not going to make this because there are only a few people who can program this

Ah, yes it's such an obvious idea indeed!
Not sure how many sales you are expecting, but I think the people that would be buying such a device are pretty knowledgeable ;-) 
I am assuming at least 30 % of all potential buyers would (potentially) be able to program it, if you document some API. And the
click boards already come with some good documentation. It's either SPI or I2C. Once you have support for this in your firmware with
some decently documented API functions, it might be possible to open it up like this.
Look at the people we have here....   ;) This is not Walmart customer base.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 14:02, 02 May 18
Is the SF3 RTC compatible to the SF2 RTC?


Can we have detailed technical details? I think about supporting parts of the SF3 with FutureOS.  :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 14:18, 02 May 18

The rtc is not compatible with se sf2
however, the sf3 have  a different address.
and the handling of these instructions is much easier.
we are still working on testing.
At the end of May we have a meeting with Prodatron, after which you get more information
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 15:05, 02 May 18
Excellent, I'm really looking forward :-)

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 18:13, 02 May 18

lambdaMikel

I will remember your idea for a mikroe header. still fits somewhere on the pcb.
firmware will not immediately support this but can then be updated later.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 19:38, 02 May 18
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 18:13, 02 May 18
lambdaMikel

I will remember your idea for a mikroe header. still fits somewhere on the pcb.
firmware will not immediately support this but can then be updated later.

Right, that can come later  :)  Unfortunately, not all Click! boards have same pin layout, but there are patterns, especially for those which the CPC community might be interested in. Those communicate via SPI, UART, or I2C. I see a couple which would be very interesting. I think the user can gain a lot. What's better than one click! port? Two, of course  ;D

There are a lot of very interesting click boards, including LED display, LED matrixes, LCD display, OLED screen, real time clocks, GPS, EEPROMS, to whole MP3 player modules etc. And they are all in the 20 to 40 $ range. Not to speak of all the sensors which would be really trivially to integrate (but then, who would need a lightning or alcohol detector on a CPC - well, might be good to have one for the next CPC party  :laugh: 


If not you, then somebody else will do this at some point I think  ;)


Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Shining on 07:55, 03 May 18
- Instead of 512 kB RAM, up to 4 MB would be nice
- Lan/Wlan and compatibility to M4-Board
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 09:41, 03 May 18

SOS wants to change its FAT32 rom for this symbiface 3. when this works there will be make a larger version. indeed with 2 or 4 mb Ram. and ROM maybe fast and stable wifi chip
If it is compatible, I do not know yet. it is not an esp8266.
I am still working on tests

it is difficult that I do not want to work against Duke. I respect the versatility of his wifi card
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 15:24, 04 May 18
4 MB RAM would be absolutely awesome, just please try to stay compatible to existing solutions.

This means you address 512 KB each using port &7Fxx, &7Exx, ...&78xx.

8 * 512 KB = 4 MB.

Using ports between &7000 and &77FF would couse troubles though.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Munchausen on 14:33, 17 June 18
Add floppy emulator, ROM, wireless, mp3 player and multiface, and you'll have one board to rule them all! Hehe
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 20:57, 17 June 18
I am already busy with research, this will take some time.
MP3 will indeed also be released, it will be largely compatible with the SE-ONE music file player.
I therefore stop with the further production of this card SE-ONE / CPC
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: radu14m on 21:35, 17 June 18
is possible to add vga/hdmi output ?



Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Sonic7600 on 13:30, 19 July 18
How would the USB Mass storage work?
Would the USB device appear as a HDD to Amstrad or as another Floppy Drive?
Also 4Mb+ Memory would be nice as well as SSA-1/DK Tronics Speech Support.
Would it be possible to add CPC+ (Sound, Graphics & Cartridge ) features to non CPC machines?

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 13:41, 19 July 18
Quote from: Sonic7600 on 13:30, 19 July 18
How would the USB Mass storage work?
Would the USB device appear as a HDD to Amstrad or as another Floppy Drive?
It works good  :D

The USB-Device occurs as Drive "D" HDD with FAT16 or FAT32 Support. You can create the Partition on your Windows/Linux/MAC-Computer.
Details you can see:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/cubeios-fat16fat32-rom-for-the-cpc's-with-xmass (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/cubeios-fat16fat32-rom-for-the-cpc's-with-xmass)
The ROM will get an update soon: Symbiface is finished, HXC/Gotek Integration is finished too, but i wait for a beta-tester.
When the HXC is tested by a second person, the version goes live.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: ComSoft6128 on 15:32, 19 July 18
Would it be possible to transfer files from 3.5" Romdos D20 disks to USB using this device?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 15:41, 19 July 18
Quote from: ComSoft6128 on 15:32, 19 July 18
Would it be possible to transfer files from 3.5" Romdos D20 disks to USB using this device?
I never check these formats.
You can try this with WinApe with Parados,CubeIOS + YANCC.
When this works (i think so!), it will be work with the Symbiface 3 too.
(please inform me, when this didn't run, than i will take a closer look (i think, i have an old floppy in our roof))

(Your question is independent of the Hardware of the Massstorage-Device)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 21:13, 30 September 18
The first steps of the new Symbiface III
Thanks to SOS for all CPC support
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 21:21, 30 September 18
Will it work with the 464 and 4 MB?
Can you guys please make sure that the Batman Demo runs trough, 100 %, reliably, on all different kinds of 464 models.
We already have a couple of 4 MB expansions that don't work.

Actually, I don't even care for 4 MB... 512 KB working would be good enough!

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/wanted-working-memory-expansion-for-cpc-464/

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 01:50, 01 October 18
I know this is coming late. However if would be great if there could be compatibility to existing hardware. Especially RAM, RTC and WiFi. RAM shouldn't be a problem. RTC is super simple in SF2, so it would be great to use the same command and ports (to allow existing software to run). About WiFi, the M4 card from Duke was sold about 500 times, so it is the standard for the CPC. Therefore it would be a big advantage to be compatible to it. Well, this is just my opinion and others will not care about these things, but I wanted to mention it.  :)  Good luck with this interesting project.  :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 07:36, 01 October 18
Now with Masstorage-USB-Support of the native Amstrad-OS:   :D
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/cubeios-fat16fat32-rom-for-the-cpc's-with-xmass/ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/cubeios-fat16fat32-rom-for-the-cpc's-with-xmass/)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 17:27, 01 October 18
Does this mean that SF2 IDE is compatible to SF3 IDE?  :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 17:34, 01 October 18
Quote from: GUNHED on 17:27, 01 October 18
Does this mean that SF2 IDE is compatible to SF3 IDE?  :)
No, the SF3 has no IDE, it has USB.
The Magic keyword is "Autodetect" and after that "Choose the right Driver"
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 20:56, 01 October 18
Awesome Hardware  :o
What are the main current features  ... ? , the same as in the initial post or has any new ones been added?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 13:53, 02 October 18
There is a lot of new function for the cpc to play I'm still testing the hardware.
[/size]if the base is tested, I can say what the possibilities are of this sf3 At this moment I have tested the CortexM7 ARM, CPLD,Oled, Buzzer Uart, Vu leds, functions and a part of the memory
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 19:41, 02 October 18
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 13:53, 02 October 18
There is a lot of new function for the cpc to play I'm still testing the hardware.
if the base is tested, I can say what the possibilities are of this sf3 At this moment I have tested the CortexM7 ARM, CPLD,Oled, Buzzer Uart, Vu leds, functions and a part of the memory

Not sure what that means (what and how do you test in CortexM7 ARM and CPLD??  ??? )

For Batman demo, the test is relatively simple - run it on a CPC 464 with supported CRTC and let us know if it crashes at some point or not  :D 
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 20:34, 02 October 18
Quote from: GUNHED on 01:50, 01 October 18
I know this is coming late. However if would be great if there could be compatibility to existing hardware. Especially RAM, RTC and WiFi. RAM shouldn't be a problem. R


I second that!  Please don't make it a "SymbOS only" device... 
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 20:55, 02 October 18
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 20:34, 02 October 18

I second that!  Please don't make it a "SymbOS only" device...

For the RTC i will later play around with RSX's,
RAM is SymbOS independently,
ROM too,
OLED, i played a little bit around with CubeMDOS (RSX's needed?!)
Some Features maybe only works in SymbOS - maybe not - It depends on the ideas.

(e.g. I think, that would be no problem to make a |BUZZ - RSX   ;) )
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 21:10, 02 October 18
Quote from: SOS on 20:55, 02 October 18
For the RTC i will later play around with RSX's,
RAM is SymbOS independently,
ROM too,
OLED, i played a little bit around with CubeMDOS (RSX's needed?!)
Some Features maybe only works in SymbOS - maybe not - It depends on the ideas.

(e.g. I think, that would be no problem to make a |BUZZ - RSX   ;) )


So if you have such a device, can you test it with Batman demo on the 464?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 16:36, 03 October 18
Quote from: SOS on 20:55, 02 October 18Some Features maybe only works in SymbOS - maybe not - It depends on the ideas.

Well, IMHO it depends if somebody writes software for it only. That's all.  :laugh:  Prodatron did for years an excellent job in writing drivers/support for Symbos. And that's great. However the M4 board shows us that anything can be kept in the native environment too. And that should be preferred all the time. Of course I do write most of my stuff also for FutureOS. I totally understand Prodatron to do the same, since the native CPC OS has not as much power as Symbos or FutureOS (the native OS has 16 KB only).

The second main reason for hardware can be / will be supported is of course its documentation. The SF2 docs are great, while I have problems to find docs for the Albireo in contrast. Therefore I - once in a while - bump here and ask for docs for the SF3.  :)

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 01:07, 04 October 18
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 21:10, 02 October 18

So if you have such a device, can you test it with Batman demo on the 464?


Looking forward to hear about the result of that test (somehow I'll have the vague feeling that we won't hear about that very soon...  ;D  )


So, I don't mind people selling their "4 MB mem expansions with 64 KB DKtronics mode" for the 464 if it actually worked. I do mind though if they pretend that it works, and let the buyers discover that themselves (through a very long and tedious frustrating process of trial and error!), than that this is really false advertising. I don't want to see another one of these RAM expansions labeled like this for the 464. At least it should be made explicit what the expansion can do, and what it can't do.

So please provide that piece of info when it comes available.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 07:33, 04 October 18
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 01:07, 04 October 18
So please provide that piece of info when it comes available.
Yes,yes,yes , but need time... (maybe we/i must wait for the 2nd prototyp-Card, i only have the V1)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 08:07, 04 October 18
Great, thanks!! I'll buy it for sure if it works  :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 03:46, 05 October 18
Quote from: SOS on 07:33, 04 October 18
Yes,yes,yes , but need time... (maybe we/i must wait for the 2nd prototyp-Card, i only have the V1)


See this is why it is a good test - it only takes 5 minutes and successfully distinguishes between fictional and actual DKtronics compatibility 😁
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 18:03, 11 November 18
Update of the SF3 v2.0

Most of the hardware has been tested.

I can give some specifications and the tests that have now passed.

Hardware:
The SF3 v2.0 has:

2MB Ram
512k Rom
MP3 Chip (player works with Symbos)
RTC + battery
WIFI
1x USB Fat32
1x USB for Hid mouse
1x SD card for internal storage (ini file update files etc.)
2x8 Vu leds
OLED 128/32 with 3 Buttons
BUZZER
ROM enable switch
DFU switch for manual update
Main power (5v) analog meeting
Connector for debug information FTDI

not tested:

MP3 recording
Onboard JTAG


the 512kb Rom can be uploaded from CPC, USB, SD, Internet
there are 32 roms
- 0-30 rom
- place 31 is the lower rom

Each ROM has an enable bit, this can be changed from the CPC

We are working on an FMC (flexible memory controller)
This piece of hardware will be able to change the memory format
to for example 2MB rom and 512KB ram


software tested:
CubeMDOS / FAT16 + FAT32-IDE OS in ROM7
AMSDOS in ROM8

The game 1943

mp3 running in Symbos

4x ROM symbos


in short, it's going in the right direction.

If there is a Mittwinter meeting in Kirchen, I hope to get there too.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 18:37, 11 November 18

support for the sf2 comes later.
the hardware has already been prepared for this.
you can activate the chip select of the sf2 and the mp3 player with the cpc

furthermore, an sf3v2.1 might be a support for the 464. but I'm not very happy with the way the 464 is being manipulated for memory expansions.

the 2.1 will be the version that we will sell.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 18:38, 11 November 18
Great specs! :) Would be nice if you can make it to the meeting (I got no date till now).
Meanwhile it would be great if you can provide detailed information who to program the SF3. Or is it confidential?

EDIT: Can it be expanded to 4 MB RAM? That would be a gem imho.  :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 18:44, 11 November 18

no it is not confidential. but I am still in the period between tests and devinitive commands.
from next week I am going to adjust the manual.

a large part of the functions is equal to the Sf3 v1.0
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 18:49, 11 November 18

The price has determined that there is 2.5mb ram on the sf3.
I would have liked more memory, but the price would be more expensive.

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Kris on 19:31, 11 November 18
What is the difference in terms of prices between 2.5Mb and 4Mb ?

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 19:45, 11 November 18
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 18:37, 11 November 18
furthermore, an sf3v2.1 might be a support for the 464. but I'm not very happy with the way the 464 is being manipulated for memory expansions.
Great! 464 support would be nice. Did you have a change running Batman demo yet? 
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 19:54, 11 November 18

4mb ram is maybe only 15 to 20 euros more expensive. With Prodatron the price has already been agreed, and I do not want to go over it.
you have to set a limit somewhere ....

I am not busy with the 464.
that will be next year
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 22:18, 11 November 18
- Maybe an option for 2 MB or 4 MB RAM. (Didn't see a price anyway, maybe I did over read it).
- I asked for docs because there seem to be at least two persons making software for it.
- Can you please post a link to the manual you mentioned?

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 13:41, 10 December 18

is there someone who has experience MQTT?
I want to add this function to the SF3
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 19:54, 10 December 18
There are plenty of tutorial for MQTT for Arduino and ESP etc. available online.
I'd say start there.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 01:06, 11 December 18
Hehe dat weet ik ook wel lambdaMikel
that is not the question....
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 07:22, 11 December 18
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 01:06, 11 December 18
Hehe dat weet ik ook wel lambdaMikel
that is not the question....
Maybe share some details what you want to do...?
Or make it an open source project to get people "engaged"?
Because I guess many developers probably are on that "tutorial level"... maybe tell people
what you want of them or what kind of "developer" you are looking for, what level, for what.

Just ideas... was actually trying to be constructive (and not asking about 464 support either)  :D

Or, as we say in Hamburg -  Niet slecht bedoeld   :P
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: ZbyniuR on 07:19, 12 December 18
Is there any useful RSX for Basic?
Is it possible to boot from this some file manager, and start Amsdos program by mouse?

If not, I don't see the point what for buy this.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 07:28, 12 December 18
Quote from: ZbyniuR on 07:19, 12 December 18
Is there any useful RSX for Basic?
Is it possible to boot from this some file manager, and start Amsdos program by mouse?

RSX's are in development, if they would be useful, difficult Question  :D
(which RSX do you expect?)


You have normal access to the USB-Stick, e.g. plug in a 16GB FAT32 Stick and access them as a normal Drive "D".
Games you can start e.g. with the normal "RUN"-Command or the Launcher/YANCC.
This part is finished and worked

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: ZbyniuR on 08:54, 12 December 18
No rush, but if you ask...  |cd,  |md,  |dir,  |del,  |copy,  |format,   |mount,"name.dsk","A"  |fastprint, 

Boot for example "start.bas"  because Basic is easy to edit for average user, and there could be start any launcher or font, keys map, picture or welcome sound. :)   Roll in mouse work as key arrows up&down, it could be nice too. To roll light stripe in menus or text in old word processor. Recognize MS-DOS disk 720K, as standard. And back after reset to the same cataloge. This kind of stuff.

Boot and choose program by mouse without keyboard on 8bits will be very impressive for others computers fans.
And not necessary with windows. Don't you think? :)

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 09:39, 12 December 18

Quote from: ZbyniuR on 08:54, 12 December 18
No rush, but if you ask...  |cd,  |md,  |dir,  |del,  |copy,  |format,   |mount,"name.dsk","A"  |fastprint, 
Boot for example "start.bas"  because Basic is easy to edit for average user, and there could be start any launcher or font, keys map, picture or welcome sound.   Roll in mouse work as key arrows up&down, it could be nice too. To roll light stripe in menus or text in old word processor. Recognize MS-DOS disk 720K, as standard. And back after reset to the same cataloge. This kind of stuff.
Boot and choose program by mouse without keyboard on 8bits will be very impressive for others computers fans.
And not necessary with windows. Don't you think?


Ok, we must sort some things


There are 2 (3) existing parts, do you can test e.g. in Winape:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/cubeios-fat16fat32-rom-for-the-cpc's-with-xmass
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/yet-another-norton-commander-clone/
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/applications/filelauncher-(acmedosm4dos)/
This programs are compatible to Symbiface 3 too.


A lot of RSX you posted, are still supported from CubeMDOS.


Not supported (at the Moment):
|Format:      Floppy-Format:
                    Not planned for CubeMDOS (not dependent of the the Symbiface-Hardware).
                    Problem: CubeMDOS-ROM is nearly full...., when i implement format-RSX, i Need a 2nd ROM. So you can choose an existing ROM with
                    Format-Function.
              USB-Stick-Format:
                    You can Format it with Windows, Linux, MacOS or whatever-OS.
|mount,"name.dsk","A":   Very interesting thing, I have already thought about that. The Topic has currently slipped backwards (lack of time)
|fastprint:    Is not dependent from Symbiface-Hardware, Maybe AddOn-ROMS with this feature exist?


Autostart.bas: The Feature is (Maybe) planned for CubeMDOS, but in lack of time slipped backwards too...


Mouse-Support for YANCC & Launcher: Maybe, never thought about it.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: rpalmer on 12:30, 12 December 18
Quote from: ZbyniuR on 08:54, 12 December 18

No rush, but if you ask...  |cd,  |md,  |dir,  |del,  |copy,  |format,   |mount,"name.dsk","A"  |fastprint,

Boot and choose program by mouse without keyboard on 8bits will be very impressive for others computers fans.

To get mouse support would be difficult to get right as there are many types over the years, but can be done with joystick. As for some sort of graphical interface, one could easily develop it much like the Linux GRUB/LILO boot loaders of the past using cursor keys and Enter/Space.

As for |mount,"name.dsk","A" - Would you always want a "DSK" file to be linked to drive A or prefer to have a virtual disk partition which can be much larger?

rpalmer
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 20:03, 12 December 18
Come on guys, be a bit more positive.  :)  This will be another great expansion for the CPC and it (as far as we can read in previous posts) will provide the requested features.
In addition I will support it with FutureOS in some detail (ROMs upload, RTC, Mouse).
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 21:02, 12 December 18
I am always for new CPC hardware... not every new piece of CPC hardware must be a fit for every user; if it is mostly for SymbOS users, why not, certainly also has its market. It is just the more users you can interest in it (including non-SymbOS users), the more sales you will have, right?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 21:20, 12 December 18
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 21:02, 12 December 18
if it is mostly for SymbOS users, why not, certainly also has its market. It is just the more users you can interest in it (including non-SymbOS users), the more sales you will have, right?

Important are the Software/Games-Developer. Which developer will be support Features of this Card?

If nobody writes software for the native Amstrad-OS, then there is no software.

If nobody writes support for SymbOS, then the card is useless for Symbos.


Some Features of this Card will be supported for native-OS, when the Card gone final (we will see, what the future will bring).
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 21:27, 12 December 18
... hence - make it open source, then people can write software for it.
Or have good documentation. I guess in order to write software for it,
one has to be in good contact with the hardware developers, right?

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 23:03, 12 December 18
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 21:27, 12 December 18
... hence - make it open source, then people can write software for it.
Or have good documentation. I guess in order to write software for it,



First we need a finished Card (it's actual WIP).

I'm actual writing a set of RSX for the Card, i must see, how my progress would be.
I will probably later publish the source-code of my  SF3- ROM.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: kawickboy on 12:43, 14 December 18
the more the card will be affordable and easy to find, the more coders will be interested in coding for it.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: ZbyniuR on 04:13, 21 December 18
@SOS (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=941) - Yeah, I agree format flash partition on PC will be much faster, so it's not useble to do this on CPC.
You right fastprint have nothing common to SF3, but fast loading and fast printing look as faster computer. Too much ROMs mean costly, and possibly compatible confusion. All useful RSX should be in one ‎piece.

More ideas for RSX:   |type,file  |show,picture  |play,AYfile  sounds heavenly. :)

@rpalmer (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=379) - I thought there is only two kind USB mouse, one compatible with PS/2 (can be connect as simple adapter), and second with dual-protocol support, to possibility transmit signals from keyboard and mouse together to one port. Other subject is few kind of transmission in cordless mouse. I have no idea how it recognise, but after that SF3 just have to put right code by PIO to keyboard buffer.

RSX |mount could be useful to properly work old Amsdos programs (for example ArtStudio), which can choose only A or B drive, and can see only max 128 files in catalog. So how I can choose file from D:Picture/Scene/CPC between ‎hundreds of files?  And DSK files should be see as one of folders, to copy and move files into DSK from other folder (or back). And between virtual disk on partition as B, and real disk in A.
With this kind of mechanism will be possible using most old programs from partition. So we don't have to wait for new programs to make use this new hardware. I believe it could help to sell this more. :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 18:25, 22 December 18

hey guys.

In belgium I bought a cheap 464. especially for the external memory test. I will be working on that in January.
A number of functions are added every day.
during the start-up of SF3, an INI file is read.
you can change this INI File yourself
you can, for example, set it up
- your wifi settings
- Loading ROMs from the Internet, for example, github
- Loading Roms from SD and USB
- resetting the Cpc

there are various functions to read and write Roms.


now I have added a usb / sd mp3 player today
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 21:50, 22 December 18
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 18:25, 22 December 18
hey guys.

In belgium I bought a cheap 464. especially for the external memory test. I will be working on that in January.
+10 from me  8) Very good!
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: KANDYMAN-IAC on 05:49, 11 January 19
Extremely interested in this project :) has there been any updates recently?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 07:06, 11 January 19

the pcb of the new version sf3 2.1 was sent yesterday to make
if all this works, the moment comes when it is for sale.
it is a big project. the firmware will also not be completely finished. but the sf3 can be updated
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 09:16, 11 January 19
Quote from: KANDYMAN-IAC on 05:49, 11 January 19
Extremely interested in this project :) has there been any updates recently?

Software:
- USB-IDE-ROM is finished + tested (only one small unimportant Bug is open, which i will fix somedays)
- WIFI: Telnet (to demonstrate the working WIFI-Commands) is in Alpha/beta-State, i can connect and work with Telnet, but Bugs open
   (my actual todo)
- OLED, Buzzer + LED's: RSX Ready, Beta Status
- ROM-Part: ROM7 + Lower-ROM-Replacement works  :) (TMT's part) (not all CPC's support the ROM7 replacement),
  RSXs like Upload, Disable/Enable, List, works too, Alpha Status
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 16:57, 11 January 19
Very wonderful!  :) :) :)  If the final PCB is out then please put me on your selling-list. This way I can test my software for the SF3 by myself and don't need to bug SOS  ;) :)
BTW: Thank a lot to SOS for help testing some things.  :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 18:31, 11 January 19

I hope version 2.1 works well. Its more than 60 changes , 4 layer PCB +/- 800 connections
GUNHED I put you on the list

SOS makes the SF3 usable  :) he has an  great driver written for the USB fat32 stick.
Now, we tested the wifi routines. but there are some bugs..

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 02:08, 12 January 19
Thank you very much. I can try to help with ROM management as soon as I get one.  :)  However, it's always better and take enough time to make things perfect. No need for a rush  :) :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 21:17, 01 February 19

we can read the EXP line with a basic program?
it is on a PPI in the CPC
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 14:01, 03 February 19
print inp(&F5FF)


Bit 5 is the EXP signal IIRC

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Sloopie on 19:20, 05 February 19

When will the Symbiface III be available, can it be pre-ordered?
Thank you for this great development!
Greetings, Marco
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 23:43, 05 February 19

I try to bring 5x SF3 2.1 in Kirchen.

these go to Prodatron, SOS, TFM, TotO, Shinning
In order to detect possible errors early.
then I will make them in series.
For reservations, send me an email, tmtlogic (at) gmail (dot) com
with your name and nickname


Microcontroller:   Cortex -M7 216 MHZ
RAM:               2 MB
ROM/FLASH          2 MB
USB Host           Hid Mouse
USB Host           Fat32 mass storage device
AUDIO              MP3 Player
AUDIO              recorder  / prepare for VOIP
WIFI               IOT module / MQTT
RTC                +Battery
VU                 stereo level indicator
CPC 464            Extern memory hack
JTAG               onboard
MEASUREMENTS       Power 5v, ARM temp, RTC batt
SD Card            for internal system storage         
OLED
BUZZER


drivers for CPC Fat32 (SOS)
drivers for symbos(Prodatron)
Roms you can download from the internet, usb, sd or cpc
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: kawickboy on 11:38, 06 February 19
Will a work-in-progress video be published, like lambda speak ?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 15:01, 06 February 19
Do you mean this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIx_pvOov9w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIx_pvOov9w)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 15:29, 06 February 19
Awesome piece of Hardware  :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 15:54, 06 February 19
:) this is the beginning ... after 4 months of hard work. With help from SOS, Prodatron, TFM, TOTo, Frits, Rich, ST, RAK, and others.

first the hardware must function properly.
then we will make new functions
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 19:21, 06 February 19
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 15:01, 06 February 19
Do you mean this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIx_pvOov9w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIx_pvOov9w)
Excellent! And excellent choice / taste of music, too!!  :) Check out the new Equinoxe Infiniti as well  ;)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 20:45, 06 February 19
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 15:54, 06 February 19
First the hardware must function properly.
then we will make new functions


Very true, the software can be updated later on, but the hardware must be running well.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 20:53, 06 February 19
I'm trying to test the jtag port on the board. if this works, the cpld can be changed later via the ARM. but now only through altera USB blaster, jtag programmer
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Kris on 21:50, 08 February 19
Looks great, need to think about a 3D printed case for it :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Vyper68 on 23:18, 08 February 19
Excellent work there  :D
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 10:51, 11 February 19
Quote from: GUNHED on 14:01, 03 February 19
print inp(&F5FF)


Bit 5 is the EXP signal IIRC



It works on the CPC464.
With the CPC6128, the EXP signal is always 0 v.
This is due to the Disk drive active is in the C6128?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TotO on 11:51, 11 February 19
The EXP signal is always set (GND) on a 6128, because it already embed the floppy disc controller and AMSDOS.
On 464, the DDI-1 interface set EXP to GND for the same reason. So, you can't handle EXP for an other usage.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 11:57, 11 February 19

Okay.
thanks.
the SF3 now has a function to make the EXP-pin low. if a user finds it necessary to make this signal low
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 09:42, 12 February 19
Working Telnet-Client is now available:

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/programming/wifi-compatibility-between-the-m4-symbiface-3-using-telnet-as-an-example
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: kawickboy on 12:50, 12 February 19
So, what are the new features already available ?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 13:18, 12 February 19
Quote from: kawickboy on 12:50, 12 February 19
SO, what are the new working abilities ?

Maybe i dont understand you correctly.

Now, we have an working SF3-Telnet-Client for native-OS (no Symbos Version).
So i can say "The Wifi of the SF3 seems to work very good".
I can connect with my SF3 to my Ubuntu- and Windows-Telnet-Server.
(The M4 do not make the job better than the SF3!  ;) )

With my article i wanted to inspire other coder of WIFI-Stuff, to write them for both cards.

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 19:29, 12 February 19
Here is an idea for the MP3 functionality:

- do you think you can decode more than one stream in parallel, and mix them on the fly, resulting in a couple of independent MP3 channels?   
- if yes, can you trigger MP3 channel playing fast (~ 10 milliseconds max?)

If so, then this would be a great device to realize a CPC drumcomputer. 3 or 4 MP3 (PCM) channels would be sufficient. The MP3 data should be on the device of course, not streamed from the CPC.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TotO on 20:26, 12 February 19
Usually, MP3 hardare only handle 2 channels. But sure, it will be great to have a sort of "wavetable" system with MP3 encoding for samples, to replay in example 6x 15kHz channels to save memory for soundtracked music. (Yamaha does for slots machines)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 20:28, 12 February 19

several mp3 channels at the same time do not want to.
however, you can quickly play short samples.
I also do this with the speech synthesizer.
these samples can be saved on sd card or usb

furthermore in the vs1053 a gm midi sound kit. this includes drum sounds.
but for that you need midi or write a DSP patch / plugin
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 20:45, 12 February 19
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 20:28, 12 February 19
several mp3 channels at the same time do not want to.
however, you can quickly play short samples.
I also do this with the speech synthesizer.
these samples can be saved on sd card or usb


right, this is good for a phoneme based speech synth, but probably not very good for a drum computer since you really need multiple samples being played in parallel (think of a cymbal crash, that reverberates a long time while the other drums continue playing).


maybe you can add a PCM playback for parallel channels. just an idea of course!


great progress so far, congrats!  :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 20:47, 12 February 19
Quote from: TotO on 20:26, 12 February 19
Usually, MP3 hardare only handle 2 channels. But sure, it will be great to have a sort of "wavetable" system with MP3 encoding for samples, to replay in example 6x 15kHz channels to save memory for soundtracked music. (Yamaha does for slots machines)


well yes, if mp3 decoding in software to pcm "on the fly" is too slow, then mp3 could only be the input format which the system uses to fill its internal buffers at startup, and then it's really only pcm sample playing. but, since he has enough memory, there is no really a need for MP3 for this feature then in the first place (pcm drum samples are only a couple 100 KBs or so).


of course, mp3 is great and needed for songs etc.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 20:50, 12 February 19
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 11:57, 11 February 19
Okay.
thanks.
the SF3 now has a function to make the EXP-pin low. if a user finds it necessary to make this signal low


But is this needed at all? Maybe better just ignore it, because IIRC no software at all does use this signal. Also IMHO it would make no sense.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 20:53, 12 February 19
Quote from: SOS on 13:18, 12 February 19
With my article i wanted to inspire other coder of WIFI-Stuff, to write them for both cards.


Excellent idea! I do follow the same path with my software. No need to invent the wheel a dozen of times. Great news!  :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: ZbyniuR on 02:00, 24 February 19
This is how should look and work useful ROM card for 8bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDPRWKzuEtI
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Audronic on 09:40, 24 February 19
Hi TMT


Do you have Price guesstimate for the SYMBiFACE III Please


Thanks.  Ray
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 15:24, 25 February 19
Sorry for the late reaction.
Very busy with the first batch...


About prices please send me an email
To tmtlogic(at)gmail(dot)com
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 10:09, 01 March 19
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 15:24, 25 February 19
Sorry for the late reaction.
Very busy with the first batch...


About prices please send me an email
To tmtlogic(at)gmail(dot)com
show us some pictures  :o :o
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 10:27, 01 March 19
Photosss..

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: genesis8 on 14:40, 01 March 19
Can I use the photos on genesis8bit !

Envoyé de mon Nokia 6.1 en utilisant Tapatalk

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 15:32, 01 March 19

is good.

there is a lot of interest, so the delivery time is longer. so much patience ....


cpc464 users.
the Ram hack from Toto is built-in. the MREQ signal is pullup.

the hardware is prepared for Rich's, however it is not yet certain that this fits into the cpld.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 08:59, 12 March 19
does anyone have a SymPlay VID file for me?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Kris on 15:27, 12 March 19
There is an exemple (matrix) in the Symbos package ;) ; I have also attached it to this message.


http://www.symbos.de/download.htm (http://www.symbos.de/download.htm)

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: zhulien on 19:26, 20 March 19
hi, just an idea, and it might be a bad one... rather than make the board really large as a single board, would it be viable to make it two boards, one board basically a small motherx4 adapter with a cable of some type (not sure which is best), and the other with all the electronics so that it can sit flat on the table?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 19:48, 20 March 19

I do not fully understand you.
do you mean an amsdap or motherX4 board where the sf3 is not straight up but lies flat on the table?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Sebastian Blanco on 21:25, 20 March 19
want one.  :o
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 21:35, 20 March 19
Quote from: zhulien on 19:26, 20 March 19
hi, just an idea, and it might be a bad one... rather than make the board really large as a single board,


I believe it is so tall because Amsdap only allows very narrow slots... it could have been wider I guess, but would not fit into Amsdap then... (just speculating, don't have an Amsdap)


As for the idea... I guess it's a bad one (sorry for that), people just want to plug it into Mother4X or whatever backplane they have.


And even if it was a good idea, the creators are not going to change the design anyhow (tried to get an edge connector into Amsdap, but to no avail  ;)  )
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 21:44, 20 March 19
The advantage of a single card is that one just needs one cable connect it. For me it's fine like it is. And probably it's a bit too late to talk about the physical size.  :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 21:51, 20 March 19
Quote from: GUNHED on 21:44, 20 March 19
The advantage of a single card is that one just needs one cable connect it. For me it's fine like it is. And probably it's a bit too late to talk about the physical size.  :)


Right, it is already in production AFAIK  :)


As for "rapid design & layout changes" - if you route everything by hand, then this is difficult indeed. If you use auto routing / layout for the most part, changing a design / physical format might not be that difficult / time consuming at all  ;) 


(Upps, not that can of worms again...  :laugh:  )


Regardless, I am looking forward to getting one.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: kawickboy on 13:27, 21 March 19
so all hardware spec & features are known ?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 14:11, 21 March 19
Quote from: kawickboy on 13:27, 21 March 19
so all hardware spec & features are known ?
Yes, it's defined. And it can be expanded regarding the firmware.

Yesterday I tested some USB mice, they work very well and are actually hot plug and play. Great!  :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: zhulien on 19:13, 30 March 19
I wonder then as a separate project that might benefit such large cards... is a mx4 extension 'cable', plug one end in the board, then put the large board anywhere you like... the reason for this, at least I have it, however much mx4 boards are less wobbly than too many extensions at the back, they still can crash the computer if they wobble too much, and having large cables sticking out (the graphics card with VGA cable comes to my mind), it is a bit of a worry.  I haven't seen the Symbiface 3 in person obviously, but I still have my Symbiface 2 - and if that is anything to go by, it is a very large card - an awesome card though especially for the time it came out.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 18:33, 01 April 19
April 1st... so good news: The USB mouse of the SF3 is now fully supported by FutureOS. The wheel can be used to browse DIRectories up and down. Also the JavaCPC emulator does already support the mouse part (and the echo part of the SF3, to check if it is present).  :)  It's a great piece of hardware and fun to code for it.  :D
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 19:40, 01 April 19
Quote from: GUNHED on 18:33, 01 April 19
April 1st... so good news: The USB mouse of the SF3 is now fully supported by FutureOS. The wheel can be used to browse DIRectories up and down. Also the JavaCPC emulator does already support the mouse part (and the echo part of the SF3, to check if it is present).  :)  It's a great piece of hardware and fun to code for it.  :D


Would be great to finally being able to use FOS with a mouse. Looking forward to Symbiface III.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 19:47, 01 April 19
Quote from: LambdaMikel on 19:40, 01 April 19

Would be great to finally being able to use FOS with a mouse. Looking forward to Symbiface III.


Yes, you can use the SF2, SF3 mouses now. Here the current WIP... only in German. Any comments are welcome.  :)  (Use CPC version, Plus version is older).
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 13:14, 30 July 19

Hey,
I am still alive  ;)


Status of the SF3:


First batch is at Prodatron.
I hope this is delivered soon.


A standard firmware has been uploaded in this batch.
new versions of the sf3 firmware can be found at www.tmtlogic.com> support> SF3 >> CPC linked to google drive




Added is:


- Web radio


- Enterprise version:
there is an adapter made by Gflorez. the SF3 / CPC can now also be used on the Enterprise computer


- We are also working on the PCW version


- and later the MSX version


I'm working on the
- extend WiFi functions
- SEONE mp3 player mode MP3B, REG




I spend +/- 4 hours a day on the SF3, which is what they call Hobby ...
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 13:28, 30 July 19
great news  :o
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 13:38, 30 July 19

You can always send an email to me  ;) tmtlogic (at) gmail (dot) com


I'am not often online on this forum
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: kawickboy on 16:16, 30 July 19
great news
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 15:53, 14 August 19
(https://i.ibb.co/ysg5CY1/1111111111111111.png)(https://i.ibb.co/rfFsjJF/222222.png)
It is already in my possession .. It is time to take the CPC to the limit! thx @TMTLOGIC (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2639)  :P :P
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: slugman on 16:03, 14 August 19
Welcome to the club  8)

(https://i.ibb.co/FJ3PW8k/img-20190813-174634.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RPb5SQG)
image share (https://fr.imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 17:59, 14 August 19

nice to see...


If you need help or questions, you can do this on the Slack.com chat app.



after the holiday there will be a hardware(cpld) update.
to solve a timing problem.

furthermore I am waiting for Rak wireless for a solution for a wifi problem.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 18:55, 14 August 19
ok , i will try that chat  8)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 19:55, 14 August 19
SF3 and LS3 side at side. That's power!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 20:44, 14 August 19
https://vimeo.com/353838680
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 21:55, 15 August 19
https://vimeo.com/354058390 (https://vimeo.com/354058390)
I am very happy with this hardware, it is something incredible  :laugh: :laugh:
I want to thank the support and help to configure this to : @GUNHED (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2029) , @TMTLOGIC (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2639) , @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13) , @SOS (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=941) and @TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179)  :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: slugman on 22:07, 15 August 19
Yes this card rocks!  I followed on slack your 'adventure' for making symbos working on it  :D ,  I will setup mine now.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 13:02, 20 September 19
MP3 player from basic  8) by @HAL 6128 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=365) 

https://vimeo.com/361265096 (https://vimeo.com/361265096)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 16:29, 20 September 19
Where to get it?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 16:39, 20 September 19
Quote from: GUNHED on 16:29, 20 September 19
Where to get it?
https://1fichier.com/?13f5r2019m6xz1rllkmc (https://1fichier.com/?13f5r2019m6xz1rllkmc)
I have uploaded it here ... remember that it is in development
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 00:20, 21 September 19

Hey,

Programs for the SE-ONE can be found on the website:
www.tmtlogic.com >> support >> seone
google drive link >> programs >> cpc

For SEONE/CPC users, you can  use the MSX DFU file to upgrade the SEONE.

for SF3 users, the normal SF3 update files, the SEONE is integrated in the SF3 DFU


If you have any questions about the SEONE, please email me and I can help you
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 13:53, 21 September 19
Ah, this means, that the SE-ONE is part of the SF3, right?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 14:19, 21 September 19
Yes it is
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 12:49, 30 October 19
Another software audio player for SF3  :P
https://vimeo.com/369790687 (https://vimeo.com/369790687)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 10:14, 23 December 19

Something has been added to the Symbiface 3 again.


With the arrival of a new adapter, the SF3_CPC can also be used in an MSX computer, and with another adapter can be used in an Enterprise computer. next year the PCW will also be available.


What is needed for it, an adapter, and an update file for the relevant computer.
For example SF3_MSX_xxxxxxxx.DFU


after this update you can reprogram the Hardware (cpld) there is a manual for that (simply by a reset and pressing a button)


after this it can be used in the MSX computer.

can you go back to the CPC ??
yes, repeat the procedure with an SF3_CPC_xxxxxxxx.DFU


The MSX has 2MB RAM, SF3 SEONE and the functions work normally. Symbos support with USB msd will come later
this is still under development just like the Enterprise


https://youtu.be/YIE6nerdzs8 (https://youtu.be/YIE6nerdzs8)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 10:35, 23 December 19

A lot of time has been spent in the past year on improving the Hardware (cpld) and new functions in the SF3.
As a result, production lagged behind expectations.


The SF3 is now in stock at Prodatron.
AMSDAP42 also on stock 10x



SOS is busy testing the DSK option for XMASS + SF2, and SF3


If you have been waiting for an SF3 for a while, send me a personal message or an email to tmtlogic(at)gmail(dot)com
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: LambdaMikel on 17:35, 23 December 19
PM sent  :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 09:56, 15 January 20

User question:


where can I find information about the Symbiface 3 v21


visit the website www.tmtlogic.com
SUPPORT tab
search for the google drive link SF3_CPC.


The SF3_CPC is the main directory for the Symbiface 3, manual for the MSX is the same as the CPC version


(it is possible to use the SF3_CPC with an adapter on an MSX, Enterprise and later on the PCW.
for this the SF3 must be updated with the SF3_MSX .... DFU for example, and then the CPLD update must be performed. here is a manual for)


you can be found here:


DFU update files, manuals, examples, ROMS, software
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 14:46, 20 February 20

We are testing to get MIDI on the SF3.

This requires a few components.  opto coupler, connectors, 3v3 regulator TTL ic's




Is there an interest in this?




or more intresing in a RS232 connection ,   (only RX TX)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: VintageAdvantage on 18:46, 20 February 20
Why not, The more feature the better!
But be aware that people can get a fully functional MIDI interface with USIfAC and a 10 $ MIDI breakout board already, for ~30 $ combined. So it's not going to be easy to be price competitive. And Speak&SID with MIDI is also only ~50 $. LambdaSpeak 3 with MIDI is in the ~ 110 $ range, so that's a bit too pricey IMHO. But both USIfAC and Speak&SID are already fully featured MIDI interfaces, for small bucks.


This is the board you can simply add to any existing serial interface that supports MIDI baud rate (31250) - and we have many serial interfaces for the CPC already (I just saw that there is a new kid in town, the Alberto that has serial interface as well):
 
https://www.amazon.com/ubld-it-MIDI-Breakout-Board/dp/B00YDLVLVO/ref=sr_1_12?keywords=ubldit+midi&qid=1582217404&sr=8-12 (https://www.amazon.com/ubld-it-MIDI-Breakout-Board/dp/B00YDLVLVO/ref=sr_1_12?keywords=ubldit+midi&qid=1582217404&sr=8-12)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 19:37, 20 February 20

Great idea,   only the 5v signal to the UART must be modify
The uart of the SF3 is 3v3

@CPCManiaco and @gflorez tells me than there was a MIDI interface named the "Music Machine".
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Music_Machine
is this the most used MIDI interface ? 6850
there are another interfaces ?

@XeNoMoRPH  give me CPCSID_TEST.zip
there are more MIDI testprograms . sequencers ?

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TotO on 16:33, 21 February 20
A curiosity!  ;)



Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 18:16, 21 February 20
Wow nice to see.
what kind of computer is this?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TotO on 18:35, 21 February 20
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 18:16, 21 February 20
wow nice to see.

what kind of computer is this?
It is a reworked CPC mainboard into an ITX case with some extra for native demo/game developers.
The SF3 fit really nice with a riser.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: m_dr_m on 09:50, 21 January 21
SF III looks really great! What is its status? Is there a new batch to order from?
(Couldn't find the info on the site)


I happen to use my CPC a lot (:
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 10:40, 21 January 21
Quote from: m_dr_m on 09:50, 21 January 21Is there a new batch to order from?
Please write Hans an E-Mail (see "Contact" on "tmtlogic.com")
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 16:32, 21 January 21
Hello,
Yes, please send an email.
There are enough components on stock, for building new SF3's
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 16:37, 21 January 21
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 16:32, 21 January 21
Hello,
Yes, please send an email.
There are enough components on stock, for building new SF3's
Can you tell us pease how much units have been sold till today? Or is it to early to ask - I know further development of the SF3 is advancing in big steps.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 16:58, 21 January 21



I don't know exactly how many I sold it, for the CPC it will be lot of.
but this SF3 can be used for multiple computers.


at the moment we are working on the SC3000.


New developments for the SF3:
Last options is VOIP via TMTNET.
you can call each other through this system.


I am busy with the improved version of the SF3, the RSF3
TFT touch screen, faster WiFi, faster dual core processor, separate connection for headset audio out, audio processor, connection for Effect processor, MIDI in out, 2x usb, 1x sd, FM radio, 2 MB FMC memory (ram / rom), 2x CPC slot, Cases possible


development will take a few months.
because almost the entire chipset is new, but this version is compatible with the SF3
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 21:57, 21 February 21

Demo of CPC EMR MIDI software
Playing on the SF3. And can also play the SF3's internal GM-MIDI sounds


https://youtu.be/YXQ2acY_SA0 (https://youtu.be/YXQ2acY_SA0)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 22:05, 21 February 21
We are busy with this midi adaptor. For CPC and Enterprise
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 00:28, 22 February 21
Can you please tell more about the MIDI interface?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 09:08, 22 February 21



About the MIDI interface.
It is not very exciting. Midi is nothing more than a SerialPort with its own Baudrate and line voltage.
There is a SerialPort connector on the backside of the SF3. normally we use this to read Debug information. but I have here (when MIDI mode is selected) converted this to baudrate of 31250.
Here comes a 6 wire flat cable and connects to the MIDI adapter (look at the picture above)
The adapter does convert than 3v3 to MIDI signals.

The SF3 has emulated some single signals from the 6850 uart chip. Not all signals yet, because I can't test it yet.
This function has been present in the SEONE part of the SF3 for some time. I have supplied IO port F8F2 and F8F3 and ported to the SEONE.

A new update with this feature is not coming yet. I'm not even waiting for us to test the adapter




The adapter is designed for the CPC and Enterprise slot.
When you use the CPC version, you break off the Enterprise part.
Sounds funny. and saves me drawing another PCB
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 18:53, 22 February 21
So, you didn't patch the software at all?

The 6 wire cable will contain RX and TX, what else?


Few days ago a MIDI keyboard CT-700 (Casio) arrived here.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 19:35, 22 February 21

I have not changed the EMR software.
SF3 handles the F8F2 & F8F3 IO ports

I don't use the other pins except for the GND.  this port is normaly connect with the  Sparkfun FTDI card(3v3)

Is there any other midi software for the CPC?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 13:45, 23 February 21
Thanks for your information. Well, I just start to learn about MIDI by myself (slowly).
Seems that there is actually few software:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/MIDI#MIDI_software_for_the_CPC

Also there is some stuff in CPC power, search for MIDI there:
https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=database
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: zhulien on 13:54, 03 March 21
MIDI also could allow the CPC to be the noise maker rather than the controller, I wonder if anyone has made a midi software to use the CPC as the noise maker, ideally with a full range of CPC audio hardware support - inbuilt AY, playcity 2 x AY, perhaps speech synths... since CPC has some cool sounds it could compliment the array of other musical instruments in a MIDI band.  I don't mean just basic CPC sounds, but also some of the other cool effects like in the shoot em up game HATE (for example).
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: VintageAdvantage on 18:24, 03 March 21
Quote from: zhulien on 13:54, 03 March 21MIDI also could allow the CPC to be the noise maker rather than the controller

Only proof of concept, but here:

- use USIfAC as MIDI IN to control LambdaSpeal 3 SP0256-AL2:
  https://youtu.be/MVEXi7fGHyc (https://youtu.be/MVEXi7fGHyc)

- use LambdaSpeak 3 MIDI IN, AY CPC MIDI Sound, and LambdaSpeak 3 MIDI Soft Through at the same time:
  https://youtu.be/6QqvawZSxjA (https://youtu.be/6QqvawZSxjA)
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 21:40, 22 March 21
Most of the hardware has been tested.
Soon I will be drawing the final PCB
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 11:35, 09 April 21
RSF3 prototype pictures
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 15:15, 09 April 21
Now it needs a proper case... Some 3D print guru around?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 16:48, 09 April 21

When the definitive pcb layout is drawn, I can put the 3D STEP file of the RSF3 online, with this STEP file a 3D housing can be made
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: m_dr_m on 19:42, 02 May 21
SFIII is really an impressive beast!


Some questions (2, i think):
* The manual states there are a lot of RSX beyond |LOG. But were are they described?
* What does OS-MOD.ROM does, compared to regular ROM. Is it necessary? I couldn't find this info back!


Thanks.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 22:21, 02 May 21
Quote from: m_dr_m on 19:42, 02 May 21
* The manual states there are a lot of RSX beyond |LOG. But were are they described?
Take a look at the attachment

(maybe the ROM-Commands need to adjust for the last firmware ??? )


Quote from: m_dr_m on 19:42, 02 May 21
* What does OS-MOD.ROM does, compared to regular ROM. Is it necessary? I couldn't find this info back!
Maybe Duke's Lower-ROM-Patch.... (when your CPC cant replace ROM7 directly)
Place it in Winape as Lower-ROM and take a look (when having default-ROM-Configs) on the Floppy - it should be gone...
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: m_dr_m on 00:11, 03 May 21
Quote from: SOS on 22:21, 02 May 21Take a look at the attachment
Great, thanks!

Is there an official homepage for this ROM?
Do you share the source?

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: m_dr_m on 12:20, 03 May 21
Quote from: SOS on 22:21, 02 May 21(maybe the ROM-Commands need to adjust for the last firmware  )
Oh yes! |ROMS shows a random ROM (not even selected) and then hangs!
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: m_dr_m on 14:33, 03 May 21
Random questions from a random citizen:


[/list]
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 16:12, 04 May 21



For the long startup time. try other USB stick.
some USB sticks take a long time to initialize.


SD card is not supported for use, not even under Symbos.
SD card is only available for system files.



Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: GUNHED on 19:44, 04 May 21
Quote from: m_dr_m on 14:33, 03 May 21

       
  • Apparently, we cannot update ROMs from SymbOS. I must try with FutureOS, but the FOSC-E roms crashes when |OS.
At the moment there is a problem with ROM uploading, I don't know if the problem is on the hard or soft side. I will come back to this.
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: m_dr_m on 13:51, 05 May 21
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 16:12, 04 May 21SD card is not supported for use, not even under Symbos.
SD card is only available for system files.

According to the available functions, it could be supported in a similar way to the USB stick, or is there some additional restrictions?
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: SOS on 18:05, 14 May 21
Quote from: m_dr_m on 00:11, 03 May 21
Is there an official homepage for this ROM?
Do you share the source?
https://github.com/BeCube1/Symbiface-3


Quote from: m_dr_m on 14:33, 03 May 21

  • Power cycle takes 17 seconds to boot, even when SF3_INI hasn't changed. Is it normal? What can be done to accelerate that?
No it's not normal. My SF3 is much more faster. (wrong USB-Stick/SD-Card?)

Quote from: m_dr_m on 14:33, 03 May 21


  • Apparently, we cannot access SD card from SymbOS (I've tried via both Master/Slave IDE, both points to the USB). Does CubeMDos SFIII version allows to access it?
No.
(it could be generally supported, there are only (i can't remember) five positions of the ASM-Code to change the MassStorage from USB to SD. Why needed? => But there are more things todo, like RSX + needed Space in the ROM + needed Time to do that.)
Maybe when i get extremly boring - very extremly - i will add SD-Support
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Fran123 on 14:03, 26 May 21
Amstrad is the expansion for SFIII  ;D
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Livingstone on 10:16, 20 June 21
Quote from: Fran123 on 14:03, 26 May 21
Amstrad is the expansion for SFIII  ;D
Pues es verdad, a este paso...
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: Fran123 on 13:46, 23 June 21
Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 22:15, 30 April 18
We are going to make a better version, and I am interested in ideas what the CPC user would want for new possibilities
Maybe:

Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: TMTLOGIC on 09:55, 24 June 21

Thanks for your ideas,
Haha, Amstrad is the expansion for SFIII.
The RSF3 gets another option.


RSF3 is an expansion of the Amstrad


Amstrad is the expansion for RSF3.


and


RSF3 works "stand alone" without Amstrad


Currently writing the RSF3_OS code.


unfortunately I also have problems with global chip shortages,
I have 10x RSF3 in stock, after that it is a 45 week wait for parts. :o



you see here the FM radio App
- Touch screen control.
- Symbos control
- Amstrad control
- IR remote control
Title: Re: SYMBiFACE III in development
Post by: XeNoMoRPH on 13:44, 08 April 22
https://vimeo.com/697291150
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