Poll

Would you like a new Tecnobytes V9990 graphics card?

Yes, I want one ASAP as part of a potential next batch.
22 (57.9%)
Yes, but I am not in any hurry for one.
3 (7.9%)
I wish I can have one, but it's currently too expensive.
3 (7.9%)
Not really interested.
10 (26.3%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Author Topic: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch  (Read 6300 times)

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Online HigashiJun

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #25 on: 05:32, 12 September 21 »
Cone on, guys !

Just 15 fellows ?

 :(
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Offline roudoudou

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #26 on: 09:05, 12 September 21 »
Cone on, guys !
Just 15 fellows ?
 :(
is there any software for V9990 since 5 years the card is used on CPC?

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Offline Joseman

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #27 on: 09:12, 12 September 21 »
Cone on, guys !

Just 15 fellows ?

 :(
I want one, but i'm waiting for the price, because i'm a little short of money.
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Offline Joseman

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #28 on: 09:15, 12 September 21 »
is there any software for V9990 since 5 years the card is used on CPC?
Some cool projects are being made with quigs.
And even the Symbos version that run this software hasn't been released (I think)
Sure 30+ owners of the card will speed up things

It's a matter of time in my opinion.
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Online HigashiJun

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #29 on: 09:33, 12 September 21 »
Some cool projects are being made with quigs.
And even the Symbos version that run this software hasn't been released (I think)
Sure 30+ owners of the card will speed up things

It's a matter of time in my opinion.

Yes, let's hope and fingers crossed.

 ;)
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Offline TotO

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #30 on: 11:01, 12 September 21 »
@Joseman The V9990 was originally intended for the MSX3, but the machine was canceled. The first video card to use it appeared around 1992 and for almost 30 years you can count on the fingers of your hand the amount of projects carried out for the legitimate machine in its day.

Even SymbOS is satisfied with a 16-color mode for "compatibility" which does not take advantage of its real specificities.
Also, I doubt that it is on CPC that its use comes to life when the circuit is hardly available for some time.

For fans of video game creation, there is the Mega Drive which costs less than the card, with a magnificent game library and very advanced development tools for beginners who want to have fun with its big sister Yamaha VDP.  :)
« Last Edit: 11:04, 12 September 21 by TotO »
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Offline Trebmint

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #31 on: 20:31, 13 September 21 »
@Joseman The V9990 was originally intended for the MSX3, but the machine was canceled. The first video card to use it appeared around 1992 and for almost 30 years you can count on the fingers of your hand the amount of projects carried out for the legitimate machine in its day.

Even SymbOS is satisfied with a 16-color mode for "compatibility" which does not take advantage of its real specificities.
Also, I doubt that it is on CPC that its use comes to life when the circuit is hardly available for some time.

For fans of video game creation, there is the Mega Drive which costs less than the card, with a magnificent game library and very advanced development tools for beginners who want to have fun with its big sister Yamaha VDP.  :)
Quigs g9k developer should be released near the end of this month, which allows cross development of g9k games on symbos. Edo has already got Flappy bird [size=78%]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTOV4d5Eq4E[/size]
[/size][size=78%]  working using Quigs and more is to follow. The plan is to make developing so easy that people have a go, and perhaps we the g9k will get some software after all these years[/size]
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Offline TotO

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #32 on: 20:41, 13 September 21 »
Well... I agree since the begin that offering a common graphic solution for SymbOS allows to have universal applications on it. Now, I thing the V9990 is not the good choice compared to the V9938/58 VDP for that usage (opening all the MSX 1/2 games to our computer). Flappy Bird? :-\
« Last Edit: 20:43, 13 September 21 by TotO »
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Offline Trebmint

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #33 on: 21:43, 13 September 21 »
Well... I agree since the begin that offering a common graphic solution for SymbOS allows to have universal applications on it. Now, I thing the V9990 is not the good choice compared to the V9938/58 VDP for that usage (opening all the MSX 1/2 games to our computer). Flappy Bird? :-\
There's already hundreds of MSX2 games, so why bother?
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Offline TotO

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #34 on: 23:32, 13 September 21 »
There's already hundreds of MSX2 games, so why bother?
They are around 100 games dedicated to the MSX2, but that is not the question...

The question is about a common graphic chip for "universal" SymbOS programs on MSX/CPC and the best to acheive that is to use the MSX2 VDP because many great programs can be adapted to run on MSX1 and CPC in this way.
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Offline Trebmint

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #35 on: 00:50, 14 September 21 »
They are around 100 games dedicated to the MSX2, but that is not the question...

The question is about a common graphic chip for "universal" SymbOS programs on MSX/CPC and the best to acheive that is to use the MSX2 VDP because many great programs can be adapted to run on MSX1 and CPC in this way.
The hardware and software already exists. I don't see the point in stopping and starting to downgrade the specs.
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Offline TotO

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #36 on: 01:01, 14 September 21 »
The hardware and software already exists. I don't see the point in stopping and starting to downgrade the specs.
I don't said to stop anything, but that was not a best choice to select the MSX3 VDP for this usage, as explain previously.
Now, it is perfect if SymbOS users are happy with the V9990 and games like flappy bird comming on it. Have fun.
« Last Edit: 01:06, 14 September 21 by TotO »
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Offline zhulien

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #37 on: 05:37, 14 September 21 »
I want one, but i'm waiting for the price, because i'm a little short of money.


USD $115 + shipping
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Offline pelrun

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #38 on: 07:47, 14 September 21 »
I'd suggest asking if they can make a minor revision on any new run and break out the YS, VRESET and HRESET (oh and gnd/5v is probably a really good idea) pins to their own header, if that's feasible. Then it will be a lot easier to add-on a passthrough board afterwards. It's not impossible to access them on the current board, but it's definitely awkward.
The extra signals that are absolutely required are just YS and VRESET. GND and 5V should already be present on the VGA socket (I should check to see if 5V is actually connected already). HRESET is apparently only used when joining two V9990's.
« Last Edit: 08:12, 14 September 21 by pelrun »
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Offline Joseman

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #39 on: 09:40, 14 September 21 »

USD $115 + shipping
Ok, count me for 1 unit then.
Thank you!
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Offline Joseman

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #40 on: 14:51, 14 September 21 »
I'm posting (again) on twitter, hope new people will come to buy one!

https://twitter.com/sJoseman/status/1437730871231012867

is there any possibility that a new bath can be made with 20 people?
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Offline Richard_Lloyd

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #41 on: 15:47, 14 September 21 »

USD $115 + shipping


OK, I am definitely interested, no longer 'maybe'.


Thanks, Richard.
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Offline Drtad

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #42 on: 23:07, 14 September 21 »
One, or two for me
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Offline gflorez

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #43 on: 02:00, 15 September 21 »
Hello, I am new here. Already presented me here.
I want to clarify something: there is not such graphic standard solution for SymbOS. Things have not happened like that.

All on SymbOS has been a challenge from the start: a full mouse driven WIMP(Windows, icons, menus, pointer) multitask environment on a little Z80 computer with only 128KB...
Since I follow the works of Prodatron he has been compulsorily adding new computers and devices to his creature. He has added a lot of CPC-only, MSX-only, PCW-only and Enterprise-only devices, apps and features to each computer version, by his own initiative or by  popular petitions.
For example, G9K and MP3 support was added to SymbOS-MSX just when the MSX Sunrise cartridges were developed, a little life ago.... On a time when the MSX user base was reluctant to move to MSX2 or MSX2+.

There has been no such decision, between V9958 and V9990, the truth is that it already exist a V9990 based MSX cartridge(and the CPC version), but not the other case. Maybe this situation can change, because the V9958 is cheaper and easier to find, with a multitude of schematics and information to implement it on an expansion card. And probably Prodatron would add it to SymbOS if the hardware is ever developed.
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Offline GUNHED

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #44 on: 04:16, 15 September 21 »
But why move back to 9958?
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Offline roudoudou

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #45 on: 08:58, 15 September 21 »
But why move back to 9958?
because it was used in MSX2 so there is already plenty of softwares


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Offline gflorez

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #46 on: 09:54, 15 September 21 »
Because there is no such move back, the V9958 is already supported on SymbOS-MSX.

Managing the same hardware on different computers is a mater of to know the Z80 ports where the device has been interfaced.

But to have a V9958 hypothetically interfaced to a CPC does not mean automatic access to the MSX library of games, they would need to be converted one by one from scratch. One of the big reasons is:  because the MSXs manage 8 bit ports(ignore the higher byte), and the CPCs manage full 16 bit ports. This detail alone forces to rewrite all port accesses. Also, 16 bit ports make the code a little slower than with 8 bits ports.

But... coding for 16bit ports makes the programs or games more compatible.... a SymbOS app written for CPC will usually work on  MSX and Enterprise, because these are 8 bit ports based computers, they ignore the upper byte of the 16 bit address of a port. Where the CPC manages the &FF60 to &FF6F ports to access the V9990, the other computers only care for &60 to &6F. The upper byte can contain any value, so &FF is any value...

Why I am explaining you this? Because Trebmint is cleverly using this trick to make his G9K module for QUIGS to produce more compatible code, 3 computers at once... marvellous...

The PCW is another history... I will explain it later.
 
« Last Edit: 21:30, 15 September 21 by gflorez »
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Offline Trebmint

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #47 on: 10:55, 15 September 21 »
I'm not sure why people would want to move backwards from a v9990 to v9958. The v9990 is so superior, already exists/works, and does anyone really believe that people will port MSX2 games too the CPC.


Quigs is an attempt to make a standard game framework for Symbos based on the v9990. I have no idea if anyone other than myself and Edo will develop for it, but I hope so as it has many advantages that many people might like.


1. The v9990 is cool and powerful
2. Symbos will allow far more scope than a game running straight from Amsdos for media, mouse, sound, network etc etc
3. Cross platform
4. Easy/Fast to develop for with Quigs, with ease to integrate graphics and even mapping etc
5. Quigs compiles to very fast z80.

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Offline TotO

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #48 on: 11:45, 15 September 21 »
Because there is no such move back, the V9958 is already supported on SymbOS-MSX.
Managing the same hardware on different computers is a mater of to known the Z80 ports where the device has been interfaced.
But to have a V9958 hypothetically interfaced to a CPC does not mean automatic access to the MSX library of games, they would need to be converted one by one from scratch. One of the big reasons is:  because the MSXs manage 8 bit ports(ignore the higher byte), and the CPCs manage full 16 bit ports. This detail alone forces to rewrite all port accesses. Also, 16 bit ports make the code a little slower than with 8 bits ports.
Yes, the V99x8 are already supported by SymbOS that already made existing applications for the OS runable for a CPC with it.

Now, about the 16-bit decoding from the CPC, it is a chance luck. As I have suggested some years ago, using the FFxx port decoding on the CPC allows to directly connect any MSX expansions to the CPC and use them w/o remapping anything aroung the MSX ports 0-255. It is in that way the V9990 and adapters to support MSX hardware on our beloved computer started. (sure, it may require some program hacks, as done on Coleco/SG-1000, but it is a less effort VS redo all)

Again, it is not a reason to stop the V9990, but probably a V99x8 expansion will be nice for a more affordable offer around compatibility.
« Last Edit: 16:02, 15 September 21 by TotO »
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Offline gflorez

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Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #49 on: 15:34, 15 September 21 »
The selection of the CPC ports for MSX hardware.... that is something that was decided by Prodatron, and I don't know from who he took the idea. The target was to fix the upper byte to &FF on the MSX adapter, and so, every &FFXX port access triggers only the lower byte, &XX, to the cartridge.


What I want to say is, the CPC &FFXX range was selected time before making the real adapter, the Amsdap. It was not a chance.

The Enterprise had only a few classic hardware expansions, so then it had a lot of free Z80 ports to put MSX expansions.

The PCW is a special case... It is an 8 bit ports machine, but its architecture uses almost all the 256 ports range, so another approach has been used(thanks to Habi).

A free port is used to create a new 256 ports range, in this case &B0. The trick is to use the high byte as the target port, leaving the lower byte always as &B0. Then, on the adapter, every access to the &XXB0 range is redirected, only passing the upper byte to the MSX hardware.

This way, all the CPC code to access the MSX hardware can be used on the PCW, taking the precaution to swap the two bytes of the port address.


Edit, I put the wrong common port number for PCW, it is &XXB0.
 
« Last Edit: 20:24, 15 September 21 by gflorez »
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