Poll

Would you like a new Tecnobytes V9990 graphics card?

Yes, I want one ASAP as part of a potential next batch.
22 (56.4%)
Yes, but I am not in any hurry for one.
3 (7.7%)
I wish I can have one, but it's currently too expensive.
3 (7.7%)
Not really interested.
11 (28.2%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Author Topic: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch  (Read 8513 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gflorez

  • CPC464
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • Country: es
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #50 on: 15:46, 15 September 21 »
I encourage any development of a V9958 graphics card, it would be great.
But... apart from the difference on the ports, the MSX games make an intensive use of libraries on Roms, that would force the conversion coders to add translation Roms on the CPC versions.

Another drawback is the use of different memory paginations on CPC and MSX.

----
About the Coleco, SG1000/SC3000 conversions to MSX, these machines are pre-MSX, so they share more hardware architecture  than only the Video chip with the MSX.

like
0
No reactions

Offline TotO

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 4.063
  • Country: fr
    • ?area=showdonations;u=4
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #51 on: 15:54, 15 September 21 »
The selection of the CPC ports for MSX hardware.... that is something that was decided by Prodatron, and I don't know from who he took the idea. The target was to fix the upper byte to &FF on the MSX adapter, and so, every &FFXX port access triggers only the lower byte, &XX, to the cartridge.
I know, as I have said that to him by email/PM or at the Revision event.

What I want to say is, the CPC &FFXX range was selected time before making the real adapter, the Amsdap. It was not a chance.
Sorry, the problem is the "chance" word into my sentence. I mean the luck to have a 16-bit I/O port to allow that.

I encourage any development of a V9958 graphics card, it would be great. But... apart from the difference on the ports, the MSX games make an intensive use of libraries on Roms, that would force the conversion coders to add translation Roms on the CPC versions.Another drawback is the use of different memory paginations on CPC and MSX.----About the Coleco, SG1000/SC3000 conversions to MSX, these machines are pre-MSX, so they share more hardware architecture  than only the Video chip with the MSX.
Well... The Coleco and SG1000 do not have the MSX ROM or paging system too. The CPC already have the same CPU and sound chip, while them have the same CPU and VDP. Anyway, it does not apply to the existing SymbOS programs.
« Last Edit: 16:05, 15 September 21 by TotO »
like
0
No reactions
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Offline gflorez

  • CPC464
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • Country: es
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #52 on: 19:10, 15 September 21 »
I know, as I have said that to him by email/PM or at the Revision event.

Sorry, the problem is the "chance" word into my sentence. I mean the luck to have a 16-bit I/O port to allow that.

Well... The Coleco and SG1000 do not have the MSX ROM or paging system too. The CPC already have the same CPU and sound chip, while them have the same CPU and VDP. Anyway, it does not apply to the existing SymbOS programs.

-You are clever....

-Ok, now I understand it. You meant the opportunity to have a spare 256 port range at &FFXX.

-As I have said, I don't want to discourage anybody, only to show objectively the possible problems that may arise.
like
0
No reactions

Offline Edoz(MSX)

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • Country: nl
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #53 on: 19:29, 15 September 21 »
Yes, the V99x8 are already supported by SymbOS that already made existing applications for the OS runable for a CPC with it.


Maybe it is me, but I do not get it. the V9990 is also supported by SymbOS and is much better compare to the old MSX2 VDP.


The MSX was my machine back then and I don't see the point bringing  the MSX2 VDP to the CPC.. as then you almost basically have a MSX then ;)
And having MSX2 VDP on the CPC does not give you a bunch of games that will work as the CPC as simply it still is different machine. Porting will maybe possible but i think not an easy task.


The v9990 is on the MSX an add- on card. I see it more like the Voodoo card for MSX and now for CPC and ENTERPRISE as well. Running it on different machines would be cool as one release for a game will work on all the machines and no porting is required. Yes there is less software for it but I would hope people will like it and start there own devs for it
like
0
No reactions

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.909
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #54 on: 19:36, 15 September 21 »
I'm not sure why people would want to move backwards from a v9990 to v9958. The v9990 is so superior, already exists/works, and does anyone really believe that people will port MSX2 games too the CPC.
Totally agreed!  :) :) :)
like
0
No reactions
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.07.15)

Offline TotO

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 4.063
  • Country: fr
    • ?area=showdonations;u=4
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #55 on: 19:37, 15 September 21 »
Ok, now I understand it. You meant the opportunity to have a spare 256 port range at &FFXX.
Exactly.
like
0
No reactions
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Offline HAL 6128

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 548
  • Country: de
    • index.php?action=treasury
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #56 on: 11:12, 16 September 21 »
The v9990 is on the MSX an add- on card. I see it more like the Voodoo card for MSX and now for CPC and ENTERPRISE as well. Running it on different machines would be cool as one release for a game will work on all the machines and no porting is required. Yes there is less software for it but I would hope people will like it and start there own devs for it
Hopefully Trebmint will release his new QUIGS? The IDE so far is quite impressive and interesting and the language easy to understand. I mean, SymbOS is a very attractive environment, also due to it's very good and deep documentation. But you still need to be an machine code professional to create something. QUIGS could be an approach for Non-Professional/Nerds (like me) to program at least something? Would be cool.
...and after embedding the driver/language support for the V9990 the OPL2 / Adlib sound cards with Pulkomandys Willy adapter or the LambdaSpeak / Midi-Board (with same sound chip) could also be enhanced by Trebmint? :)
like
0
No reactions
...proudly supported Schnapps Demo, Pentomino and NQ-Music-Disc with GFX

Offline Trebmint

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 486
  • Country: zw
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #57 on: 11:21, 16 September 21 »
Hopefully Trebmint will release his new QUIGS? The IDE so far is quite impressive and interesting and the language easy to understand. I mean, SymbOS is a very attractive environment, also due to it's very good and deep documentation. But you still need to be an machine code professional to create something. QUIGS could be an approach for Non-Professional/Nerds (like me) to program at least something? Would be cool.
...and after embedding the driver/language support for the V9990 the OPL2 / Adlib sound cards with Pulkomandys Willy adapter or the LambdaSpeak / Midi-Board (with same sound chip) could also be enhanced by Trebmint? :)
There will be a release of Quigs with g9k support very soon (within a week). Yesterday we had the great news that Prodatron has worked out the g9k interrupt, so when I receive the updated symbos I will try to get that included.... this will mean really cool stuff can be done :) Currently I'm adding lots of use cases to the optimizer... I want the Quigs compiler to produce the fastest ever z80 compiled code.
like
0
No reactions

Offline Edoz(MSX)

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • Country: nl
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #58 on: 13:35, 25 September 21 »
like
1
Members reacted like:
Prodatron,

Offline HigashiJun

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: jp
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #59 on: 03:54, 26 September 21 »
All to do now is to cross fingers and hope a new batch of the v9990 will be released...

 8)
like
0
No reactions
HigashiJun

Offline Trebmint

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 486
  • Country: zw
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #60 on: 11:05, 28 September 21 »
Here you can find the new G9K BETA release for Quigs:


https://www.msx.org/forum/msx-talk/development/new-symbos-development-quigs-beta-release-with-g9k-support


Yes please join the new Quigs discord server [size=78%]https://discord.gg/eVQQnzFYkD[/size] Where I hope we can fix bugs, create a g9k framework for games that people want (currently thinking about game objects and how to reference.define them), and optimise the language to be even faster. You can do this by checking the output.asm, and telling me where its inefficient within the compiler scope.
Cheers.
like
0
No reactions

Offline Skunkfish

  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 733
  • Country: gb
  • Editor of Colour Personal Computing
    • CPCSTORE.CO.UK - Dedicated to the Amstrad CPC
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #61 on: 18:10, 28 September 21 »
Put me down for one please  :D
like
0
No reactions
An expanding array of hardware available at www.cpcstore.co.uk (and issue 3 of CPC Fanzine!)

Offline zhulien

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 920
  • Country: au
  • aka Vorax
    • 8bitology
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #62 on: 15:03, 04 October 21 »
There seems to be 100s of CPC users here on these forums, but only 17 that want better graphics?


I think there are a few options, but what is important also - is that this option actually exists - it is not fake, some of us have it already.  It isn't a perfect solution, but having said that, it is the best graphics option currently available for the CPC.


Other options I could see but so far no-one has taken it up.


- CPCLink Card + Raspberry Pi, this option exists in hardware but not yet in software.  There is no reason why a server (running on the Pi) could not provide facilities to the CPC via the CPCLink card.  Via a simple protocol that would enable us to use an HDMI monitor for even BASIC (patched) but not existing games.


- New CPC Graphics Card perhaps based on the MSX 1 standard?  This would allow easy porting of some MSX and Sega games at a pretty low price point.


- CPC/PI Bridge Board, not yet existing fully still a work in progress but it would still require software to be written.




- @ToTo I think you mentioned perhaps making a CPC graphics card that is an extension of the RGB signals?  Like the Graffiti card?  Could that perhaps work on CPC given the right drivers on CPC side?


- Display Port Protocol support on USB.  I downloaded the docs for this standard and to me it is a bit alien but, I am sure that someone here would understand enough about USB protocols to implement elementary Display Port facilities.  The only thing I wasn't sure of from a hardware point of view, is can the CPC feed the Display Port fast enough without a coprocessor.  We have quite a few good USB adapters now, so maybe someone would like to evaluate the display port protocol?


https://www.vesa.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/ICCE-Presentation-on-VESA-DisplayPort.pdf





Lots of people would love to see new hardware but some don't want the CPC to basically become a PC.  Displays are one irritating point for CPC that is yet to be resolved.  I was lucky enough to find an LCD TV which has HDMI and SCART but they don't seem to make them anymore (at least not in Australia).  SCART was never big here anyway.  The Spectrum and Amiga both have Raspberry Pi HDMI based adapters, so there is no technical reason that a similar solution couldn't be used to convert CPC display signals to HDMI also.


The ultimate solution would be something that is compatible with CPC native modes but offers a couple of other higher colour or higher resolution modes with it.
« Last Edit: 15:09, 04 October 21 by zhulien »
like
0
No reactions

Offline ajcasado

  • Supporter
  • CPC664
  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • Country: es
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #63 on: 16:03, 04 October 21 »
There seems to be 100s of CPC users here on these forums, but only 17 that want better graphics?
I'm one of the 17. The problem may be that the price is high and probably also that it will only be supported by SymbOS.

For a cheap VGA capable expansion the RPi PICO is a good option. Less than 5€ in Farnell:

https://es.farnell.com/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-pico/raspberry-pi-32-bits-arm-cortex/dp/3643332?cjevent=f8ea7a5f250b11ec823501d70a18050d&cjdata=MXxZfDB8WXww&CMP=AFC-CJ-ES-1765328&gross_price=true&source=CJ

See the yet ready extra libraries : https://github.com/raspberrypi/pico-extras.
More functionalities are also implemented in the MCU, as UART(serial port), SPI, I2C, I2S, digital I/O, Analog Input, USB host.
It has 30 GPIO pins, so several of the functionalities (audio, VGA, storage, comms and I/O ) referenced above could be used at the same time in a not very complicated expansion board for de CPC.

It comes with 2MB of flash to support the desired functionalities code and 264kB of RAM that can be used as VRAM and buffers for I/O, storage and audio.
like
0
No reactions
CPC 664

Empiezas a envejecer cuando dejas de aprender.
You start to get old when you stop learning.

Offline zhulien

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 920
  • Country: au
  • aka Vorax
    • 8bitology
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #64 on: 16:41, 04 October 21 »
I think it will be supported by more than Symbos - just that Symbos is the only thing that currently supports it.  But that is pretty good in itself - Symbos is really another platform for CPC (AMSDOS, CP/M, FutureOS, Symbos), and debatably the best platform, although FutureOS appears to have some really good features too - just the goals are different for each.  AMSDOS of course is the most primitive and is debatably not an OS, but fulfils the features of an OS.. just.


We can still write our own software and if any game developers make games supporting it that would be cool too.
like
0
No reactions

Offline zhulien

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 920
  • Country: au
  • aka Vorax
    • 8bitology
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #65 on: 16:48, 04 October 21 »
I'm one of the 17. The problem may be that the price is high and probably also that it will only be supported by SymbOS.

For a cheap VGA capable expansion the RPi PICO is a good option. Less than 5€ in Farnell:

https://es.farnell.com/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-pico/raspberry-pi-32-bits-arm-cortex/dp/3643332?cjevent=f8ea7a5f250b11ec823501d70a18050d&cjdata=MXxZfDB8WXww&CMP=AFC-CJ-ES-1765328&gross_price=true&source=CJ

See the yet ready extra libraries : https://github.com/raspberrypi/pico-extras.
More functionalities are also implemented in the MCU, as UART(serial port), SPI, I2C, I2S, digital I/O, Analog Input, USB host.
It has 30 GPIO pins, so several of the functionalities (audio, VGA, storage, comms and I/O ) referenced above could be used at the same time in a not very complicated expansion board for de CPC.

It comes with 2MB of flash to support the desired functionalities code and 264kB of RAM that can be used as VRAM and buffers for I/O, storage and audio.


Something like this interfaced with CPC directly would be a very good CPC gfx card solution because of it's software upgradability.  I wonder if @revaldinho could easily modify CPCLink to cater for the Pi Pico?



https://picockpit.com/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-pico-video-output/
« Last Edit: 16:50, 04 October 21 by zhulien »
like
0
No reactions

Offline zhulien

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 920
  • Country: au
  • aka Vorax
    • 8bitology
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #66 on: 16:51, 04 October 21 »
Still there are advantages in the full CPCLink card - it's really easy to change the onboard Pi when a new pin-compatible model comes out.
like
0
No reactions

Offline gflorez

  • CPC464
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • Country: es
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #67 on: 19:12, 04 October 21 »
I would like to remember you all that the Amsdap bus expander allows the use of 2 MSX cartridges, so buying the available Technobytes V9990 MSX version is easier than asking for a 30 units batch of the CPC version.
Also, TMTLogic will soon release an affordable  and simple CPC slot(MX4) to MSX slot.

So, you have some more real, actual, available options.


like
1
Members reacted like:
entelle42,

Offline LewisCPC

  • CPC464
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #68 on: 22:52, 04 October 21 »
Put me down for one :)
like
0
No reactions

Offline revaldinho

  • Supporter
  • CPC664
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #69 on: 00:01, 05 October 21 »
Something like this interfaced with CPC directly would be a very good CPC gfx card solution because of it's software upgradability.  I wonder if @revaldinho could easily modify CPCLink to cater for the Pi Pico?
https://picockpit.com/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-pico-video-output/


I haven't see these before, but I like the idea of the Pico as a generic video processor for 8 bit CPUs. This is a totally different direction to the V9990 cards though and might be split off into another thread.


CPC-cplink is already fully compatible with the Pi Pico, Arduino and other microcontrollers. The cplink header has a pin-out suitable for direct connection to a standard Raspberry Pi, so other MCUs need to be connected with a short cable or just breadboard wires. Cplink deals with voltage level shifting as necessary, and removes any timing criticality from the interface. The latter is more useful for standard Raspberry PIs running a full Linux, or maybe slower MCUs like the Arduinos. The Pico, with its PIO based pin handling, is easily fast enough to process Z80 bus transactions without the need for cplink's hardware FIFOs.


R
like
0
No reactions

Offline TotO

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 4.063
  • Country: fr
    • ?area=showdonations;u=4
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #70 on: 00:46, 05 October 21 »
I like the idea of the Pico as a generic video processor for 8 bit CPUs.
Yes, it looks more attractive.
like
0
No reactions
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Offline Trebmint

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 486
  • Country: zw
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #71 on: 02:47, 05 October 21 »
So you guys want to buy a cheaper graphics card with no software at all, that has yet to be designed, built, and still not that many people will want... hmmm.


Software is coming for the v9990 that will make more people want this card :)
like
0
No reactions

Offline zhulien

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 920
  • Country: au
  • aka Vorax
    • 8bitology
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #72 on: 07:34, 05 October 21 »

I haven't see these before, but I like the idea of the Pico as a generic video processor for 8 bit CPUs. This is a totally different direction to the V9990 cards though and might be split off into another thread.



If you start a new Pico CPC Gfx Card thread based on CPC-cplink, add me down for 2.

like
0
No reactions

Offline zhulien

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 920
  • Country: au
  • aka Vorax
    • 8bitology
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #73 on: 07:37, 05 October 21 »
So you guys want to buy a cheaper graphics card with no software at all, that has yet to be designed, built, and still not that many people will want... hmmm.


Software is coming for the v9990 that will make more people want this card :)


I think the v9990 and another solution like Pico are good alternatives for different purposes.  The v9990 could be good for games, but isn't really the best display for serious software on the CPC with it's low resolution given the small choice of LCD monitors we have these days.  Having a Pico with full HD display could really be a good thing (for some types of games) but definitely for serious software.  Choices are good, they don't really overlap... I'd rather be programming on my CPC (with full HD) than mode 2 if it were an option.
like
0
No reactions

Offline Edoz(MSX)

  • CPC664
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
  • Country: nl
    • Awards
Re: Tecnobytes V9990 New Batch
« Reply #74 on: 19:31, 05 October 21 »
I wanna support! So sign me up as well for a spare! v9990 is just very cool and very 8 bit!
like
0
No reactions