The MegaFlash

[pelrun]

Oh, I can buy them, I just don't want to pay a 500% premium for them

[Bryce]

I paid about €2.20 each as far as I can remember. The XL version cost €1.80

Bryce.

[pelrun]

Yeah, but I'm on the arse end of the planet. Shipping usually blows out the per-unit prices for me. As it is, to get some of the parts I want I'm forced to go to digikey, and that means having a US$200+ order to get free shipping from them...


Edit: of course, if someone wants to supply the CPLD themselves, and get a whole $2 off the cost of my board, they could do that. It would be silly, though.

[00WReX]

Are these the ones you are after...

1 Pieces XC9536PC44 15 IN System Programmable CPLD XC9536 | eBay

Des not seem too bad a price...

Cheers,
Shane

[pelrun]

As I was describing to Bryce privately, buying those would actually end up costing me at least 3x what I'm currently paying; the extra components needed to use the 3.3v chip add only cents.


It's appreciated, but there's no problem to be solved - I've got my supply chain all sorted out

[Bryce]

The 3.3V regulator is easy and the inputs a 5V tolerant, but what about the outputs? I'Ve never tried to use a 3.3V part in a 5V system.

Bryce.

[pelrun]

In many(not all) cases 3.3v logic outputs can drive 5v logic inputs correctly; you need to check the datasheets and verify that the input IC's Vih (input high voltage threshold) is sufficiently below 3v. The Z80 has a Vih of 2v, so we're good. Otherwise you would need some sort of level translation, even if it's as simple as a pullup resistor connected to 5v.

[zeropolis79]

As I was describing to Bryce privately, buying those would actually end up costing me at least 3x what I'm currently paying; the extra components needed to use the 3.3v chip add only cents.


It's appreciated, but there's no problem to be solved - I've got my supply chain all sorted out

How much would a complete unit cost from you>

[pelrun]

Price will be AUD$50 plus shipping. But there's nothing to buy yet, so you'll have to be patient

[TotO]

Price will be AUD$50 plus shipping. But there's nothing to buy yet, so you'll have to be patient

Have you checked the prices of current ROM boards before starting with that?
50AUD = 35€ ... The FlashGordon is 18€, X-MEM is 25€.

Making one for your own purpose is a nice challenge, but with respect with your work...
I'm not sure that you will be able to sold them for making money on the back of the CPC community today.

[pelrun]

I wasn't going into this to sell anything, honestly. Just wanted a board for myself. The price point isn't because of profit, it's just a really bad idea to set a price just above part costs, because you end up losing money on every board (NREs, time cost, etc). *Especially* for something you're only expecting to shift at most a few units of.

Oh well, no point trying to compete with boards that cheap - thanks for the heads up. My only previous reference was Bryce's 75€ price for the original Megaflash, and I thought I was doing pretty well being significantly below that. I'll just go back to making a single board for myself.

[Gryzor]

I'm surprised people have managed to manufacture boards at such low prices; that said, I'm sure some won't mind paying more... I know *I* like to hoard stuff

[pelrun]

People starting out selling hardware have a tendency to underprice things - "oh, I can't go over 10% markup, it feels unfair to my buyers" - which ends up hurting them and making it less likely they can continue manufacturing or developing new products. You can do low profit margins when you're manufacturing in high volume, but it's insane for low-volume manual hobbyist manufacturing. A super-niche market like here is exactly where you *shouldn't* be cutting prices to the bone. That's not price gouging, that's just setting a fair price that makes it worthwhile to develop for the CPC.

[Bryce]

Have you checked the prices of current ROM boards before starting with that?
50AUD = 35€ ... The FlashGordon is 18€, X-MEM is 25€.

Making one for your own purpose is a nice challenge, but with respect with your work...
I'm not sure that you will be able to sold them for making money on the back of the CPC community today.

Clones such as the Flashgordon give a very unfair image of what it costs to develop and make something like this. They didn't have to spend any time developing it or building prototypes. They also just go for the very cheapest quality PCBs and then sell them for almost the parts costs. This doesn't do justice to the people who invest time and money to design something from scratch. This isn't "making money on the back of the CPC community", this is selling something for what it is worth.

Bryce.

[pelrun]

I wouldn't classify the FG as a "clone", unless I'm seriously misinterpreting this - Pulkomandy did much the same as I've done, reimplementing the board schematic and layout from scratch (even though we used your original schematic as a reference) running prototypes, then needing extra software development work to support the different flash part they used. I just think he's set the price way too low.

[pelrun]

Underpricing is also why you see many boards like this get one or two small production runs and then vanish forever, leaving latecomers who would love to get their hands on one out of luck, or forced to pay massively inflated prices when one gets resold. Making peripherals for charity doesn't really do the community any favours in the long run.

[Phi2x]

.

[pelrun]

You aren't wrong, but even with the rom boxes there hasn't really been a steady supply, just sporadic short runs. Which is *why* so many different ones exist.


Pricing appropriately is not primarily about "making money off the CPC community", but about making it possible to achieve a consistent supply. The profit can go into producing the next batch of boards immediately, which may sit in inventory for a considerable period before being sold.


As for the HxC, I'll probably buy one eventually, but not before I've reprogrammed this commodity Gotek drive to do the same thing

[Bryce]

Don't compare your board with the Flashgordon. You've had to go to the trouble of integrating the logic into a CPLD, the Flashgordon is identical to the MegaFlash except for the addition of the reset switch as far as I know. All they did was redraw the schematics. The software changes weren't done by them, TFM who also did all of the MegaFlash software did that (Thank you TFM!!!).

The HxC isn't a CPC expansion. It's a shugart replacement, so his market is massive in comparison. If I (or anyone else) could guarantee 5 figure sales, then the price could and would be much lower and I would outsource the manufacturing as Jeff did.

Bryce.

[pelrun]

There's less difference between my board and the FG than you think. Most of the hard work was in reverse engineering the logic out of your schematic and doing the new board layout - something we both did. Putting the equations into the CPLD was utterly trivial.


If the FG had used your original pcb files and replaced the winbond chip with the SST, then it'd be a straight clone and I'd agree with you.

[Bryce]

If the FG had used your original pcb files and replaced the winbond chip with the SST, then it'd be a straight clone and I'd agree with you.

Yes, but they didn't even have to do that "trivial" bit with the CPLD, they literally just copied the schematics into a different program and re-routed it. Nothing else changed.

Not that I have a problem with this. The project is open-source for all to copy. Just they (or anyone else) shouldn't then turn around and question why mine was more expensive.

Bryce.

[zeropolis79]

Price will be AUD$50 plus shipping. But there's nothing to buy yet, so you'll have to be patient

Just wondered, so if they did come for sale, I could budget for one if it was easy to set up..

[redbox]

The project is open-source for all to copy.

And this is a great thing, so thank you

[TotO]

Clones such as the Flashgordon give a very unfair image of what it costs to develop and make something like this. They didn't have to spend any time developing it or building prototypes.

The Flash Gordon is an assumed low cost copy of your board. But, no profit here and respect for your open source work!

But, when I read pelrun said : "It will be 50AUD", I can't stay here and said nothing.
First, to be informed about existing boards. Next, because It's not fair play to plane to make money with your work.
It's why I have posted that. (please, don't confuse)

I'm confident on the fact that you are the first to work on it, you needed R&D, tries, tests, wasting parts/boards, spending money, using more expensive PCB and parts some years ago that is possible to find today...

No worry about that, your work in not criticized here!!!

[Gryzor]

As a customer I can say that's an interesting discussion with valid point all around...