USB Floppy Emulator for classic systems

[Trotzdem]

Look at this:

http://cgi.ebay.de/HCX-Floppy-emulator-for-Amiga-Atari-ST-ZX-3-CPC-PC_W0QQitemZ180432516506QQcmdZViewItemQQptZKlassische_Computer?hash=item2a029db59a

Obviously, you can connect the offered device to your PC, then load a discimage into it, and then it behaves as if it was a floppy with the corresponding disc in it.

Just a bit expensive

At least for a poor lawyer like me

[fano]

You may try to build by yourself.Every information needed is on his webite.
I prefer to wait a batch of the SDcard version

[Gryzor]

€60... ouch!

[Bryce]

Considering the hours that go into a project like this, and the amount of work needed just to build it, I don't think the price is extremely expensive. You have to remember, that this is being produced on a hobby scale and not being churned out of a chinese factory with 2€ a month employees and high production volumes. As mentioned above, you can build it yourself, but the price difference won't be all that much, and a pre-built version will have been tested before you get it (I hope), so it's guaranteed to work. On the other hand, there is a simpler SD version online (A very neat solution I have to say), which you could build even cheaper... but you might have to polish up on your french before heading over there...

http://atariamiga.free.fr/installation_sdiskemul_cpc.php

Bryce.

[viddi]

Nice...but I think fano is right.
What about a SD card version?

I´d buy the USB one if I could connect an USB stick directly to the interface.
Is it possible? Or do I need the Windows software at all?

[fano]

What about a SD card version?

Jeff says he hope to start a batch for SD version soon in this thread (in french) : http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3881&start=15

Project is here : http://hxc2001.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/index.html#SDCARDFloppyemulator

It is great as it is able to write to disk images so it will behave as a standard disk drive, i am impatient to see this product in my 6128+
If i found a solution to program pic, i may be tempted to build it by myself if the batch does not come...

[Octoate]

€60... ouch!

That's a fair price. Only the CPLD on this device costs about 25 EUR (at Segor here in germany). Then add the board and the work to assemble it...

[Trotzdem]

Maybe expensive was the wrong word. Indeed, somenone gets all the parts, solders them together and tests it ... should be worth 60 €.

On the other hand, I think I wouldn't use it that often. So I'll let you buy them

[Gryzor]

I didn't say that the guy is ripping us off No, what I meant was that €60... is simply a bit too much for the functionality. I'd probably pay that amount with no second thought for an SD version!

[Cholo]

Most of these "homemade" projects do tend to be a bit pricy (for the reason already mentioned).  Like Symbiface was 120 Eu and a C-one is currently 333 Eu i noticed.

Getting a old style 3.5" drive that is Amstrad compatible isnt impossible .. but perhaps you would try selling it fast again at £184.95 (lol):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TEAC-FD-235J-3653-U-3-5-FLOPPY-DRIVE-fbc1bh_W0QQitemZ120472848565QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_FloppyDiskDrives_SM?hash=item1c0cbdc8b5

Then again i think they are just "fishing" for the extreme dull rich people with that one 

And some sellers of 5,25" drives has reached the same crazy prices tho.

[mr_lou]

On the other hand, there is a simpler SD version online (A very neat solution I have to say), which you could build even cheaper... but you might have to polish up on your french before heading over there...

http://atariamiga.free.fr/installation_sdiskemul_cpc.php

Woohoo, that one looks really interesting! I like that fact that you can see on screen what's on the SD-card. But I'm wondering how you select which DSK to use. Also, do you think it'll work with my CPC464? I do have the floppy-controller, and currently have a 3.5" drive connected.

Who'll make me one of those? :-D

[fano]

Also, do you think it'll work with my CPC464? I do have the floppy-controller, and currently have a 3.5" drive connected.

AFAIK as long you can run a drive, it will work.

[mr_lou]

AFAIK as long you can run a drive, it will work.

Groovy.
I'm not too impressed by the method of selecting the DSK image though. It seems to be 1 button you click to browse through the files.

I remember seeing some other project once, where you'd load some RSX commands first, and then be able to read from an SD-card or Compact Flash as if it was a harddrive. I think that's more interesting. I've been trying to find it online again, but gave up. Anyone knows what I'm talking about?

[Bryce]

I might build the SD version when I have time. I asked the author for the PIC Source code, so that I could enhance a few things, but he didn't seem to want to share it. I like the way he overlayed the video signal too. Gives me a few cool ideas such as a "Wallpaper" module for background graphics without any CPU involvement, they could even be animated backgrounds with a bit of trickery.

The only IDE interface I've ever seen for the CPC was "CPCNG" (www.hanssummers.com/computers/cpcng/ide/) which I don't think ever got to the prototype phase. It would (if finished) read/write IDE harddrives or Compact flash cards. As far as the hardware is concerned, it's pretty easy to connect IDE devices to a CPC (check out the MyIDE interface for the Atari 8-Bit - www.mr-atari.com), the problems are with the software needed to control the device. Bad software can change a really good idea into a useless collection of components. The MyIDE device has some very good software onboard, which rounds off the product perfectly. Anybody interested in porting it to CPC? 

[arnoldemu]

I might build the SD version when I have time. I asked the author for the PIC Source code, so that I could enhance a few things, but he didn't seem to want to share it. I like the way he overlayed the video signal too. Gives me a few cool ideas such as a "Wallpaper" module for background graphics without any CPU involvement, they could even be animated backgrounds with a bit of trickery.

The only IDE interface I've ever seen for the CPC was "CPCNG" (www.hanssummers.com/computers/cpcng/ide/) which I don't think ever got to the prototype phase. It would (if finished) read/write IDE harddrives or Compact flash cards. As far as the hardware is concerned, it's pretty easy to connect IDE devices to a CPC (check out the MyIDE interface for the Atari 8-Bit - www.mr-atari.com), the problems are with the software needed to control the device. Bad software can change a really good idea into a useless collection of components. The MyIDE device has some very good software onboard, which rounds off the product perfectly. Anybody interested in porting it to CPC? 

Symbiface has IDE on board + extra RAM + extra RAM which acts like rom.
A DOS compatible with AMSDOS was in progress but never finished.
http://www.wincpc.ch/index.php?topic=projects-symdos
I would like to see this finished.

Ok, an alternative would be to build an interface similar to the spectrum one.
Two types here, a very cheap "8-bit" one and a "more expensive" 16-bit one.
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/zxplus3e/interface.html

Would these be any better?

[Bryce]

I know Symbiface also has IDE, but I was more referring to stand-alone devices, ie: small interface circuits that just offer IDE, rather than the "All-singing-and-dancing" (Eierlegende-Wollmilchsau / le mouton à cinq pattes) solutions such as Symbiface.

Bryce.

[Octoate]

Well, there is also the IDE8255 by Yarek. This is just a 8255 PIO with address logic and the IDE device can be directly connected to the 8255.
Here is a detailed description of a similar 8255 interface: An 8-bit IDE interface.

[TFM]

Well, there is also the IDE8255 by Yarek. This is just a 8255 PIO with address logic and the IDE device can be directly connected to the 8255.
Here is a detailed description of a similar 8255 interface: An 8-bit IDE interface.

Also look here:

http://8bit.yarek.pl/interface/yamod.ide8255/index.html

This 8255IDE interface is cheap, small and the fastest for the CPC. Unlike the SF-II it is only a IDE card.

Bye the way, if somebody produces the floppy emulator with an SD card I would buy one, I can also pay the money in advance.

About pricing: 60 Euros is cheap! Guys what do you think how much you would pay in a computer shop? How much time it takes to developp such a project? How much money you have to pay only for the parts and then the assembly time? 60 is a fair price!
TFM of FutureSoft

[mr_lou]

Any chance I'd be able to use such a Flash-card reader one of those on my CPC464? I mean, like going to drive B would give me a kind of harddrive? I have 128mb ram and a DDI interface with a 3.5" + 3" drive connected at the moment. I'm hoping I could replace the 3" drive with a "harddisk" like a flash-card reader.

Are there any of the mentioned solutions that can do that, or do I need a CPC6128?

[Bryce]

Technically there is no reason why it wouldn't work with the DDI-1 interface as Drive B, but it doesn't exactly work like a hard-drive, the Memory card has all the DSK files stored on it and you can choose one which it then fools the CPC into thinking there's a floppy drive present with that disc in it. When (and if) I build any of them, I will report back with 6128 and DDI-1 results.

Bryce.

[mr_lou]

That sounds great Bryce.


As far as I understand, it is possible to hook up a card-reader, if you load some RSX commands before accessing the card. Theese RSX commands could be loaded from disk. But couldn't they also come from another cartridge?

[Bryce]

Any hardware that needs it's own RSX commands can include an onboard ROM to make them accessable, or at least, that's the neatest way of doing it, although not the cheapest. The advantage of the Floppy emulator solution is that it doesn't need any new commands, because the CPC thinks it just a regular floppy, all the standard CPC disc commands work as normal. The SD-Emul from Sundance does require a joystick to navigate the on-screen menu, but when I build it, I intend to replace this with some small buttons on the PCB.

Bryce.

[mr_lou]

Any hardware that needs it's own RSX commands can include an onboard ROM to make them accessable, or at least, that's the neatest way of doing it, although not the cheapest.

I'm having a little bit of trouble figuring out why people prefer a floppy emulator over such a harddrive-kinda solution. Is it "just" because of the price and/or work in building such a device?
Surely being able to type e.g.
|fdir
|frun "filename"
|fload "filename"
- would be more intriguing than a floppy emulator? (the "f" would be short for "flash").

The advantage of the Floppy emulator solution is that it doesn't need any new commands, because the CPC thinks it just a regular floppy, all the standard CPC disc commands work as normal. The SD-Emul from Sundance does require a joystick to navigate the on-screen menu, but when I build it, I intend to replace this with some small buttons on the PCB.

I see the advantage, and somehow, selecting a DSK would be kinda like entering a folder, which you'd probably do in another solution too. The only part of the floppy-emulator I don't like, is the way DSK files are selected. I'd much rather control that from the CPC using RSX commands, rather than clicking through 100 DSK files using 2 buttons....
The on-screen display helps of course, but still.....

[Bryce]

One of the reasons the HxC/SDEmul emulators don't use RSXs is that they seem to be compatible with  absolutely anything out there that has 8-Bits, including my granny's toaster (it's a really cool toaster, honest). So the RSX software would have to be written for each computer family seperately, as well as that, if the RSXs were ROM based, the hardware would have to connect to the expansion port too (like the FDD-1 does) and would then be around the size and cost of a Symbiface (which does all of the above and more, but for CPC only). Floppy Emulation is a happy medium, which makes use of the fact that the CPC already has the floppy hardware and commands available. That said, it should be possible to make some changes to the HxC / SDEmul so that the navigation is done by CPC keys instead of a Joystick/external buttons, but this would again make the module CPC-Only, which is not what their goal was.

Bryce.

[mr_lou]

...and would then be around the size and cost of a Symbiface (which does all of the above and more, but for CPC only).

Floppy Emulation is a happy medium, which makes use of the fact that the CPC already has the floppy hardware and commands available. That said, it should be possible to make some changes to the HxC / SDEmul so that the navigation is done by CPC keys instead of a Joystick/external buttons, but this would again make the module CPC-Only, which is not what their goal was.

To me, the floppy-emulation is mostly interesting because it'll run on my CPC464, while SymbiFace requires a CPC6128. Even though I do have a CPC6128 too, the CPC464 is just the one I prefer using because it's the one I grew up with.

Any chance it would be possible to make software RSX commands to select a DSK file from such a floppy-emulator? That way the hardware would still work on all machines, and the software RSX commands could just be loaded from another drive.
(I'm thinking about Orion Prime that somehow manages to put 4 DSK files onto a 720kb floppy and switch between them as it pleases).