Author Topic: USB Mouse Batch.  (Read 23359 times)

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Offline Bryce

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #25 on: 21:12, 17 December 11 »
You're added to the list...

Bryce.

Offline TotO

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #26 on: 22:10, 17 December 11 »
Is, the mouse move enough fast using the joystick port?
(instead of the printer port or may be the expansion port as a MegaFlash expansion)

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Offline Bryce

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #27 on: 02:01, 18 December 11 »
The mouse port gets scanned 300 times a second as far as I know. That's fast enough to give smooth movement. The reason why I stuck to the Joystick port is because it keeps the mouse compatible with any AMX compatible software from the 80's. That's more important than having a slightly faster mouse that would need drivers and new or patched software.

The end speed depends on how and how often the software reads the port, so in theory it's probably even slower, but still seems to be smooth enough. Also, remember we're talking about a screen width of maximum 640 pixels, at 300 times a second you can travel pixel for pixel from left to right in under 2.2 Seconds.

Bryce.
« Last Edit: 02:12, 18 December 11 by Bryce »

Offline TotO

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #28 on: 09:32, 18 December 11 »
OK. Thank you. :)
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Offline Bryce

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #29 on: 16:47, 18 December 11 »
Had some time, made some boards :)

Bryce.



Offline robcfg

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #30 on: 18:00, 18 December 11 »
They look absolutely great!  8)

Offline Bryce

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #31 on: 19:36, 18 December 11 »
Tomorrow I'll polish and drill them, the components don't arrive till Wednesday. Batch 2 will happen after Christmas. Now I've time to build a Lower ROM prototype :)

Bryce.

Offline MacDeath

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #32 on: 15:28, 19 December 11 »
What's the price ?
I would like one please.

Do you think I could connect a graphictab/pen on it ?


Quote
The reason why I stuck to the Joystick port is because it keeps the mouse compatible with any AMX compatible software from the 80's. That's more important than having a slightly faster mouse that would need drivers and new or patched software.
clever choice... as it was the cmosest thing we have of a standard mouse.

Does it works well on PLUS ?


I mean the joystick port is slightly different as it is already splitted, are there some issues with the "3 buttons" or not ?

Quote
Yes, it needs the 5V connection. Amstrad in their infinite wisdom, decided that their Joystick port wouldn't supply 5V unlike every other computer in the universe!
Is there a +5V on the analog PLUS port ?
or else the extension plug from the CPC olds ?


Also, perhaps the modern "point and click" puzzle games such as ColorLines could be patched to support this mouse at last...

What about patching discology too ?
« Last Edit: 15:38, 19 December 11 by MacDeath »

Offline Gryzor

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #33 on: 16:53, 19 December 11 »
Hahaha... indeed, what's the price? I would guess not the prime concern of all of us who jumped right in!

Offline Bryce

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #34 on: 17:52, 19 December 11 »
Ok, second set of FAQs:

Generally the mouse will work on a CPC+, but because the plus didn't have the "hidden" Fire 3 on pin 5 the mouse will only have two working buttons. This might be an issue for certain software.

A graphpad / pen might work depending on what protocol it uses. If it strictly adheres to the PS/2 standard, then it will work, but I don't have such a device and I've never tested it.

Due to the CPC+ having split joystick ports, the "bonus" scroll wheel won't work on a plus either, without making an adapter to the second port.

The CPC+ analogue joystick port has 5V on pin 5 and 0V on pins 1, 8, 9 and 15. These could be used to power the mouse adapter.

The mouse adapter cost €40 plus €5 postage.

Bryce.

Offline TFM

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #35 on: 21:52, 19 December 11 »
Generally the mouse will work on a CPC+, but because the plus didn't have the "hidden" Fire 3 on pin 5 the mouse will only have two working buttons. This might be an issue for certain software.

Well, my Plus has also Fire 3. Now I remember why, it's easy to solder it in :-)

Due to the CPC+ having split joystick ports, the "bonus" scroll wheel won't work on a plus either, without making an adapter to the second port.

And such an adapter is no problem for everybody who is able to hold a soldering iron ;-)
 
Resumee: If you have a Plus, a soldering iron and some minutes, then you'll be fine  :)
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Offline beaker

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #36 on: 23:29, 19 December 11 »

Well, my Plus has also Fire 3. Now I remember why, it's easy to solder it in :-)
 

Do you have any details on how to do this?


Resumee: If you have a Plus, a soldering iron and some minutes, then you'll be fine  :)

Don't forgot the cold beer  ;D

Offline TFM

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #37 on: 00:03, 20 December 11 »
Do you have any details on how to do this?

Don't forgot the cold beer  ;D

Uuummmm. I did that '92, so I don't remember exactly, but I guess you just pick up the signal from the PCB and connect it to the Joy-port by using a Diode.
 
Yes, the beer must be cold!
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Offline RockRiver

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #38 on: 01:38, 20 December 11 »
Now I've time to build a Lower ROM prototype :)
Yoo-Hoo!!!!! :)

Offline MacDeath

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #39 on: 13:04, 20 December 11 »
Well, perhaps then a clever way on plus would be to get the thing connected both to the Joystick1 port AND the Analog port...

This Analog port being quite notoriously unused, it may give a fire3 perhaps (or even more stuffs), alongside the 5Volts power..?

(would this still be AMX compatible?)

I mean, while I'm at it doing a proper connector...


Graphic tablet :

Basically it can work like some "regular mouse" but can also be far more complicated indeed.



Quote
The mouse adapter cost €40 plus €5 postage.
Count me in !

I mean, I do have some USB mouses (and even PS/2 mouses...) from various era... and those are easier to find than an original AMX mouse anyway, and fare cheaper too.

Those cards look cute.


What are the modalities to get one of those sweet badies ?



Also, When will you do some series of "4-games compilations on an ACIDless cartridge board" ?


I mean even case-less and with a crude socket for ROMs and basic jumpers to switch games... I would like some too...


Quote
Yes, the beer must be cold!
and Belges...
« Last Edit: 13:11, 20 December 11 by MacDeath »

Offline beaker

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #40 on: 15:28, 20 December 11 »
and Belges...
Is that chocolate?
Or maybe some Scrumpy and Pork Scratchings?  :P
« Last Edit: 15:34, 20 December 11 by beaker »

Offline beaker

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #41 on: 15:34, 20 December 11 »
Also, When will you do some series of "4-games compilations on an ACIDless cartridge board" ?


I mean even case-less and with a crude socket for ROMs and basic jumpers to switch games... I would like some too...

Ditto, especially if I solder and ACID chip in the machine  ;D

Offline Bryce

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #42 on: 16:20, 21 December 11 »
I've no idea where you'd find the Fire 3 signal in a Plus, I didn't think it existed at all. Generally the AMX Mouse wasn't Plus compatible. But I'll look into whether Fire 3 can be re-instated in a plus and make a How-to on the Wiki.

Bryce.

Offline TotO

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #43 on: 17:34, 21 December 11 »
I've no idea where you'd find the Fire 3 signal in a Plus, I didn't think it existed at all. Generally the AMX Mouse wasn't Plus compatible. But I'll look into whether Fire 3 can be re-instated in a plus and make a How-to on the Wiki.

Bryce.
Looking from the CPC+ schematic and doing the parallel with the 6128 schematic, the FIRE 3 (spare) came from the AY-3-8912 GPIO (pin 8 : X7) and got to the Joystick connector (pin 5), who is not connected on the CPC+.

So, you can try to make a strap to enable it. May be funny for games supporting 3 buttons... ;)
If OK, the folowing great 1 line testing program will return the "64" value when pressed.  ;D

Code: [Select]
10 PRINT JOY(0) : GOTO 10
« Last Edit: 17:57, 21 December 11 by TotO »
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Offline TFM

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #44 on: 22:23, 21 December 11 »
Looking from the CPC+ schematic and doing the parallel with the 6128 schematic, the FIRE 3 (spare) came from the AY-3-8912 GPIO (pin 8 : X7) and got to the Joystick connector (pin 5), who is not connected on the CPC+.

Ok, let's get closer to the point step by step. That much for now (since I'm still at work).
 
 
« Last Edit: 22:53, 21 December 11 by TFM/FS »
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Offline TotO

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #45 on: 22:32, 21 December 11 »
And don't forget the diode 8)
Look to be only on directions, not fires.
The best was to do like each PCB does with other fires lines.
« Last Edit: 22:35, 21 December 11 by TotO »
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Offline Bryce

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #46 on: 23:44, 21 December 11 »
The diode isn't really required, it doesn't really fulfil any useful function, except the extremely unlikely situation of a voltage being applied to the pin. But it doesn't hurt either, so I would probably install it.

What about the firmware? Does the plus firmware even scan this pin? Somebody who knows more about the CPC firmware as me (ie: Probably everyone reading this) should take a look at the routines and compare them to the classic CPC routines. Maybe it needs to be patched?

Bryce.

Offline TFM

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #47 on: 00:28, 22 December 11 »
Look to be only on directions, not fires.
The best was to do like each PCB does with other fires lines.

 
That's wrong! Only Pins 6 and 7 - which are Fire 1 and Fire 2 - are connected using a diode.
 
 
The diode isn't really required, it doesn't really fulfil any useful function, except the extremely unlikely situation of a voltage being applied to the pin. But it doesn't hurt either, so I would probably install it.

Right!

What about the firmware? Does the plus firmware even scan this pin?

Neither Plus nor CPCoG (= CPC old generation) do directly check this signal. Fire 1, 2 and 3 are treated like keys. You can scan for them if you like using the firmware. f.e. PRINT JOY(0),JOY(1). The complete keyboard matrix (80 keys) is scanned by the firmware via interrupt periodically. The Pin 5(Spare) is just one signal of them. But it's not treated in a special way.
 
So, in short:
- forget the firmware here
- no software differences between Plus and CPCoG here
 
« Last Edit: 00:35, 22 December 11 by TFM/FS »
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Offline MacDeath

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #48 on: 07:18, 22 December 11 »
Quote
I've no idea where you'd find the Fire 3 signal in a Plus, I didn't think it existed at all. Generally the AMX Mouse wasn't Plus compatible. But I'll look into whether Fire 3 can be re-instated in a plus and make a How-to on the Wiki.
Well, if you want to slip a little bit aside the standard AMX, a mouse/controller that would be connected to 2 joystick ports (be it the analog or the second digital port) can actually get something like a total of 10 buttons (expect a few keyboard/joystick clashes ?)

2x4 direction and 2 buttons at worse...

You could even get a modern controller (those with 2x4 directions and some analog sticks and a few trigger buttons, like Playstation's or Hugebox') to be almost fully supported by a PLUS provided your thing is connected on all the 3 Joystick/controlers ports...

Such thing (PS or Xbox controller adapter) could be done with an Arduino perhaps ?
« Last Edit: 07:20, 22 December 11 by MacDeath »

Offline TotO

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Re: USB Mouse Batch.
« Reply #49 on: 10:41, 22 December 11 »
That's wrong! Only Pins 6 and 7 - which are Fire 1 and Fire 2 - are connected using a diode.
I'm speaking about CPC+ official schematics... So, please argument with an alternative picture instead of saying "wrong!".

@Bryce
While adding a 3rd button line on CPC+, we can add a +5V line to the pin 9 of the second joystick port for the USB adapter.
So, we can plug the mouse on it without using external cable. (and continue to use 1 or 2 joysticks on the first port, like the CPC do)
« Last Edit: 12:10, 22 December 11 by TotO »
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