Using SymbOS with the GFX9000 (MSX grapics card)

[rpalmer]

What people should weigh up are the Pros and Cons.

Pros (in no particular order):

1. New hardware.

2. Possibly faster games.

3. Better graphics and capabilities.

4. The extra memory may be used for other purposes (RAM DISC?).

5. A great achievement to attach such a video card.

6. Can attach a new monitor such as a VGA for clear pictures (and they would be sharp).

7. Make the display standard between two distinct platforms. A big bonus for future software developments.

Cons (also in no particular order):

1. Does not run in a native CPC without changes to the firmware to make a default device to see things. Although this may not be such a drawback in the future.

2. Cannot replace the native design as there are timing/interrupt issues to consider as well as DRAM refreshing issues.

3. Cost maybe a big issue for take up.

4. Don't expect this to allow anyone to play movies with decent playback. The MSX R800 makes it look okay, but at approx 10x Z80 speed the R800 is clearly not worried about it.

5. Uncertain availability of the V9990 chip may make this kit a limited run. I have tried to source the 765 FDC and find it is mostly only from ebay and suspect the same for the V9990. These were developed in the late 80's or early 90's, so i can be safe to say that availability is going to be an issue. This particular concern may be negated if the V9990 is replaced with a CPLD or FPGA to do the same thing.

6. Existing games will not run with it without changes. This is a big problem when they have dedicated routines to make most efficient use of the existing native design. I am assuming the source  is available which for the most is not.


There could be many other pros and cons which I have not considered, so by all means comment and question the development. For me it is at least something different to the normal hardware we have recently seen and look forward to see how this progresses.

rpalmer

[andycadley]

I don't see it as a "you shouldn't want it", mor a question of "Why would I want it?" What do I gain over just getting an MSX with an upgrade (which surely has more software?)


We're all mucking about with obsolete hardware after all, just because you can is certainly as good a reason as any.

[robcfg]

6. Existing games will not run with it without changes. This is a big problem when they have dedicated routines to make most efficient use of the existing native design. I am assuming the source  is available which for the most is not.

Why is that? As far as I know, it does not disable the standard video output and it does not alter machine in any way other than hang from the expansion port...

[GUNHED]

Wow! Lots of posts in such a small time. Honestly after reading all posts here I don't understand everything. But it looks like a great project. Let me ask though if this card will be only available for symbos users or will it be sold to everybody? Wouldn't it be nice to speed up other OS too like the BASIC-OS and CP/M? If this card is so well then it should be able to support fast writing of text on screen too - I guess.

[Trebmint]

Wow! Lots of posts in such a small time. Honestly after reading all posts here I don't understand everything. But it looks like a great project. Let me ask though if this card will be only available for symbos users or will it be sold to everybody? Wouldn't it be nice to speed up other OS too like the BASIC-OS and CP/M? If this card is so well then it should be able to support fast writing of text on screen too - I guess.

It doesnt require Symbos. The reason its mentioned here alongside symbos is because Edo is part of our little symbos team and making the software that already runs on the msx2 in higher rez and more colours run on a cpc seemed a logical next step.


Lots of hardware seems to exist with no software to show it off... so the 1st benefit of symbos is that software already exists atleast in GUI mode. We intend to take this as I've said far further creating a cross platform game OS. But no symbos isn't a requirement

[Ast]

+1 for me when it will be ready!

[Scarlettkitten]

Surely any new hardware being produced is good for the cpc scene, I don't understand all the downers.

[Bryce]

Wow! Lots of posts in such a small time. Honestly after reading all posts here I don't understand everything. But it looks like a great project. Let me ask though if this card will be only available for symbos users or will it be sold to everybody? Wouldn't it be nice to speed up other OS too like the BASIC-OS and CP/M? If this card is so well then it should be able to support fast writing of text on screen too - I guess.

Maybe FutureOS will support the card too?

Bryce.

[villain]

Maybe FutureOS will support the card too?

Bryce.

I'm not sure if users from the States ever heard of Future-OS. 

[Trebmint]

Maybe FutureOS will support the card too?

Bryce.

And that ladies and gentlemen is how you end a discussion!    But yeah I'm sure lots of people will want to support this via something other than symbos. The more the merrier

[GUNHED]

Lots of hardware seems to exist with no software to show it off... so the 1st benefit of symbos is that software already exists atleast in GUI mode. We intend to take this as I've said far further creating a cross platform game OS. But no symbos isn't a requirement

Thanks for your information. Yes, this is a great example how cross-platform development can be beneficial.    IMHO the MSX scene is bigger than the CPC scene, so good for CPC users. 

[Prodatron]

Tecnobytes published a video showing the CPC with the V9990 graphic card in action:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFtcGITspwk

I think this little demo is already absolutely amazing and shows some of the potential of this powerful hardware expansion.

[Trebmint]

Haha. Yep nobody is going to want this.... Better get started on this software then

[HAL6128]

Tecnobytes published a video showing the CPC with the V9990 graphic card in action:
I think this little demo is already absolutely amazing and shows some of the potential of this powerful hardware expansion.

Amazing, indeed. Do you know by chance how much (or less) degree of capacity utilization the CPC / Z80 is in action now for this demonstation? If've seen a M4 Card from Duke and a X-Mem. Does the developer also get a PlayCity Card (just in case there are now interferring problems)?

[Trebmint]

Amazing, indeed. Do you know by chance how much (or less) degree of capacity utilization the CPC / Z80 is in action now for this demonstation? If've seen a M4 Card from Duke and a X-Mem. Does the developer also get a PlayCity Card (just in case there are now interferring problems)?

At a guess not much Z80 in use. The black screen would have been uploading graphics from z80 into the VRAM. After that it would be Key Input, and a few instructions to set new sprite data for animation and setting the scroll offset.
Cool example though this is it's not pushing the z80 more than a few %. This is all v9990 doing its thing.
I dont know about the Play city interferrence issue... Technobytes hasn't got that card as far as I know, and he's only had a CPC a month or two. people in Brazil have never heard of Amstrad

[Duke]

Looks absolutely amazing

[ASiC]

Tecnobytes published a video showing the CPC with the V9990 graphic card in action:


I think this little demo is already absolutely amazing and shows some of the potential of this powerful hardware expansion.

[HAL6128]

I dont know about the Play city interferrence issue...

Oh, there's no concrete problem. Just asking. Maybe some want's to create Mega-CPC or -Game with that graphical extension, M4 and the PlayCity. (Would make sense)

Technobytes hasn't got that card as far as I know, and he's only had a CPC a month or two. people in Brazil have never heard of Amstrad

What? Our famous CPC? So at least 40 years later it conquered South Amercia .
(I think SyX who is studying or studied in Brazil has one over there )

[zhulien]

I want 6 of them for my m4's...

[robcfg]

Impressive!


That's really a true graphics accelerator, offloading graphics work out of the cpu will allow much more complex and richer games.


Great job!


I would like one too.

[Prodatron]

Amazing, indeed. Do you know by chance how much (or less) degree of capacity utilization the CPC / Z80 is in action now for this demonstation? If've seen a M4 Card from Duke and a X-Mem. Does the developer also get a PlayCity Card (just in case there are now interferring problems)?

As Trebmint already mentioned there is no real Z80 CPU usage for this demo at all. It's running in Pattern screen mode, you see the two possible (transparent) layers. The robot and the logos are hardware sprites, the Z80 is just updating a few pointers in each frame, not much more.

We decided to use the ports #FD60-#FD6F for the V9990 CPC Powergraph, I already made an entry here:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/I/O_Port_Summary#I.2FO_Port_Summary
I hope it won't collide with other existing hardware?

[Edoz(MSX)]

Tecnobytes published a video showing the CPC with the V9990 graphic card in action:

I think this little demo is already absolutely amazing and shows some of the potential of this powerful hardware expansion.

wow! This is so cool! I love to watch that movie!

[||C|-|E||]

There are many things to love about that card! I will definitely be getting some when they are available    Having VGA output (I see a VGA port, right?) is super awesome too! 

[villain]

After more than 30 years we get real brown on CPC now? Whooohoooo. 

[Maniac]

Stunning stuff! Certainly an interesting development!