Production for 464 Plus Tape lids and Cartridge Cases!

[arnoldemu]

There is a need for someone to sell a case complete with a populated PCB using either a real ACID chip or a CPLD acid replacement, so the buyer can put in their own programmed eprom and stick a label on it.

This would be perfect. Good for people like me who are not good at electronics but want to make games.

[Munchausen]

I agree - just go with the standard case for now. There may be a demand for reprogrammable/multi carts (with DIP switches?) but for now the circuits and layouts don't exist, so I'd say stick with the standard cart and perhaps later if someone comes up with layouts for alternatives then that can be dealt with then.

[TFM]

If you mean has this cartridge thing overtaken an original thread then probably yes, my bad, sorry . I have sort of wondered for a while now if maybe this discussion might be better located somewhere else. I'm still very green when it comes to good forum practices I'm afraid

Oh no.   The cartridge part is the best thread ever.    Dreams come true. 

[BluesBrothers]

Hey, only had time for a quick read this evening. Had to get some paid work done. Bills, bills, bills .
Will take on board what has been mentioned so far and be back with more soon

[Gryzor]

Moved this under /Hardware and changed the title

[TFM]

Now I just long for an update about this wonderful topic. 

[dragon]

There is a need for someone to sell a case complete with a populated PCB using either a real ACID chip or a CPLD acid replacement, so the buyer can put in their own programmed eprom and stick a label on it.

I need I need arf arf arf.... jeje.

[Bryce]

The only problem is, both the CPLD and the EPROM have to be permanently soldered to the board, otherwise it doesn't fit in the case. So if someone does produce them, they will have to be ordered with pre-programmed EPROMs. I have designed a writeable 256K Cartridge, but at the time I made it with a real ACID and some 74xx Logic. If I use a CPLD for the ACID, then there should be enough spare space in the CPLD to cover the 74xx function too. I just need to get around to converting it. As it's writeable from the CPC, there'd be no problem with the ICs being soldered in.

Bryce.

[TFM]

Wait.... you can not use a socket for the (EP)ROM?

[Bryce]

Not if you want the case to close. Look at my MultiCart. The hole is in the Cart lid because the EPROM is in a socket, and even then it's a tight fit into the Cartridge slot: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/6/6f/Multi_Cart_Case.png

Bryce.

[TFM]

Thanks' Bryce, that's a bit a drawback regarding updates. On the other hand it can encourage us to really finish games for Carts before manufacturing them.




It may be an good idea to create Cart shells in a way that they have the holes, so sockets could be used. On the other hand ... dunno. 

[steve]

Would it be possible to make an adaptor to connect the fully assembled cartridge to the programming socket of an eprom programmer so that the eprom can be programmed later.

[Bryce]

Yes, for a standard cartridge that is one solution, for multi Carts (especially the software controlled version) it's not that simple. But deleting the EPROM would still mean opening the cartridge.

Bryce.

[BluesBrothers]

Hey folks,
Thought I should give a bit of an update and noticed there'd been replies to the topic which I'd not seen since it had been moved. For what ever reason my instant notification thingy wasn't working so I assumed there were no new posts. Anyway I have refreshed my notification preferences so hopefully I'll be able to respond more quickly to your posts from now on as I should now as they happen.
Ok so I have been looking at the multi cart topic and wondering how we might best do something which would make these cases work best for commercial and hobby projects and I was thinking that we could create pop-outs. These essentially would be located under the cartridge label area so that if the case was used on a commercial game then the label goes on and it is to all intents and purposes a it looks like a regular cart. What I am trying to establish at the moment is the best locations for the pop-outs and exactly what size is required (this should then allow the use of a socketed chip for those who want it). 
The pop-outs themselves would basically look solid from the front of the case but be slightly weakened in the plastic so that a little gentle work with a craft knife would open the required section easily.
Also if we (or anyone else on here) are looking to make new boards then we can more easily add a screw fastening to the case as we can more readily allow for it's positioning.

[BluesBrothers]

Ok, PCBs... there is a PCB on the CPC Wiki, Bryce made it IIRC.


And for ACID replacements, I suggest Octoate's and Nilquader's solution. There is another hack too, but I don't know much about the second one.




Neither PCBs, nor ACIDs seem to be a problem. Of course they need to be produced too. In this case I would like to buy 100 PCBs for the cartridge with the full 512 KB of ROM. (I already got 100 original ACIDs).

If you already have the acids then we could possibly do enough (standard/original type) boards to go with the number of acids you have. As I understand it though it would require a bit more R&D and time to do boards with a suitable replacement once all available acids have run out.

[Bryce]

Good idea. Make the "weak points" in a 5 x 5mm matrix, then the user can remove the right squares for the particular project they need it for.
There's a plastic pin in the original cartridge that goes through the PCB. Put the screw there, then original PCB will fit in your cases too. The position is also very good for fitting ICs around.

[TFM]

If you already have the acids then we could possibly do enough (standard/original type) boards to go with the number of acids you have.

Good idea, I got 100 of them. So I would need 100 cart shells. 

[steve]

There is now an issue that there is not enough height in the case to have an eprom in a socket, if the case was extended and the end of the case was deeper than the part of the cartridge that goes inside the CPC, there could be enough height to have the eprom in a socket.
@Bryce, how deep does the case need to be to have an eprom in a socket?

[BluesBrothers]

There is now an issue that there is not enough height in the case to have an eprom in a socket, if the case was extended and the end of the case was deeper than the part of the cartridge that goes inside the CPC, there could be enough height to have the eprom in a socket.
@Bryce, how deep does the case need to be to have an eprom in a socket?

If the push out sections are implemented then you could have a socket for the EPROM but that cartridge would then have the open sections permanently. This would be perfectly adequate to enable hobby projects, development of games and testing of burnt proms before hard-soldering to boards which are intended for commercial type distribution in fully enclosed cases.

That is, in my opinion at least, the way it could/should work, or you end up with just a multi cart and you'd have to persuade game developers to let you have just the programmed EPROMs to slot into your own cart

If you're not keen on this then I don't think it would be terribly hard to extend the length of the case and have a slightly raised section at the back but what you run the risk of ending up with is something quite bulky and which is potentially an eyesore to look at. On the other hand it could be very practical as you could use a "battery cover" type opening to enable easy exchange of EPROMs. I'm sure this idea was dismissed earlier in this thread though.

I guess money should also be a factor here. Anyone releasing a commercial piece of software will understandably need to keep costs down, whereas a hobbyist might not mind paying more for something with the extra versatility. So,...... is 2 different variants of a case a preferred option? One a standard case and one extended, sort of L shaped case. The problem with 2 types is developing 2 cases and 2 boards is extra cost.

If you could let me have a general consensus as I need to let Adam know which way this is going once and for all and then chew his ears continuously until he's made them 

[steve]

Have you seen the TI 99/4a cartridges?, something like that would not look too bad.
The problem is really that the people who will write the new games may not know which end of a soldering iron to hold, and would rather just plug an eprom into a ready made cartridge than buying all the components, making the PCBs, making the acid replacements and soldering it all together.

[Bryce]

The raised part would need to be about 3 to 5mm higher than the normal top cover. The cartridge would also need to be quite a bit longer than normal, because the "free" part that pokes out of the CPC at the moment isn't wide enough to house an EPROM, I'd estimate that the cartridge would need to be about 20mm longer than a standard cartridge.

Bryce.

[arnoldemu]

The problem is really that the people who will write the new games may not know which end of a soldering iron to hold, and would rather just plug an eprom into a ready made cartridge than buying all the components, making the PCBs, making the acid replacements and soldering it all together.

LOL.

My skills are limited to soldering "normal" (e.g. ancient) ICs with nice big pins
I can't do anything smaller and I can't burn eproms or program acid replacements.

[Bryce]

That's ok, I can't tell one end of a shift-register from the other I'll stick to what I can do and the software guys can do their stuff.

Bryce.

[BluesBrothers]

Have you seen the TI 99/4a cartridges?, something like that would not look too bad.
The problem is really that the people who will write the new games may not know which end of a soldering iron to hold, and would rather just plug an eprom into a ready made cartridge than buying all the components, making the PCBs, making the acid replacements and soldering it all together.

LOL, Yes I'm working with some TI-99's at the moment and I thought much the same as a design style. We can easily create some cardboard mock ups of the PCB requirements and use these as a template by which to create an extended case.

I know they're more expensive but has anyone considered low profile sockets?

[Bryce]

My calculation is based on low-profile sockets = +3mm needed, standard sockets = +5mm needed.

Bryce.