Production for 464 Plus Tape lids and Cartridge Cases!

[BluesBrothers]

Ok, retrieved the Plus Sorry for the wait. PM me with an address and I'll package it for you...


Oh yeah, and please do take a look into badges

Just wanted to let you know that the tape lid had arrived safely and thank you very much for lending it out, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

As for the cart cases I'm still waiting and chasing them. There was some complications with delivery of some materials which have caused a set back but hopefully we'll have something physical soon and I'm going to chase them up right this minute.

[Gryzor]

Ahhh good then, keep it as much as you need to, just let me know when you send it back so I can expect it

[BluesBrothers]

Hey Folks, I realise it's been a while since there was any news so just thought I'd give you all an update on the plastics situation. We are concentrating our efforts on the plus cartridge at the moment but are having some difficulties with the clips as these inevitably broke away from the original when opening. We really wanted to look at an alternative method of holding the two halves together but there is a severe lack of space in the cartridge to offer up any sort of alternative, therefore we have gone back to the original clips and are having to effectively rebuild them with mixed success, although we do seem to be getting there now.

One other reason for the extra time it is taking is that we are trying to learn a bit more about the making of the moulds rather than just commissioning a specialist company to do this as long term it would be beneficial to do this in-house when taking exact replicas of an existing item. Mould from drawings are a little different and are likely to need to be CNC'd moulds.

Anyway as soon as we have the Eureka moment we will move on to the 464+ tape lid and of course we will be making the cartridge cases available for you all either through our ebay store or directly through the Wiki here at a slightly more friendly price.

One more thing,.... Colours or distinguishing features were mentioned previously. I think that a different colour from the original is a better way to go. I know a few suggestions on colour have been put forward already but if anyone has any strong preferences now would be a good time to say so.  I can't make any promises on exact colour of course but I can certainly look into it.

[Gryzor]

Blue. The kind of blue that the CPC BASIC has when you turn the machine on. Then it could be coupled with delicious yellow labels


If we're looking for something less garish, perhaps dark gray?

[Gryzor]

Oh hey, what about the lid then?

[BluesBrothers]

I think definitely as close to the original as possible for the tape lid, it should not be discernible as a copy in my opinion.

Adam actually tells me that this should be easier than the cart case in so much as it is one single cast rather than 2 although the Perspex section which is heat riveted in place presents a different challenge. The main issue here will be the colour, finding that exact shade (or a close enough approximation) will present a tough challenge if we can't but that exact shade of raw plastic "off-the-shelf", in which case there will have to be some trail and error sessions mixing our own colours and once we get in right making a sufficiently large batch of it as stock plastic to avoid colour variations later.

If you guys did really want a distinguishing mark on this then I could ensure there is a logo on the inside where it is not obviously visible.

The first step with this though will be to get a good silicon mould taken from which we can work our aluminium mould without causing any damage to the original

[BluesBrothers]

Blue. The kind of blue that the CPC BASIC has when you turn the machine on. Then it could be coupled with delicious yellow labels


If we're looking for something less garish, perhaps dark gray?

Blue is good for me (I think this was mentioned before also). Also we might be able to do something with the labels if generic labels appeal? Or if for someone's homebrew game we could potentially produce proper art-worked labels which are professionally finished if the numbers required are enough.

[BluesBrothers]

Blue. The kind of blue that the CPC BASIC has when you turn the machine on. Then it could be coupled with delicious yellow labels


If we're looking for something less garish, perhaps dark gray?

Just sent a screen shot off to Adam now and will see what he comes back with

[TFM]

Yes, second blue too.

[steve]

If the clips prove too difficult to make work reliably, then the two halves could be held together with self tapping screws, TFM does not like this and it is likely that he will buy more than anyone else, so maybe its not such a good idea after all.

[BluesBrothers]

If the clips prove too difficult to make work reliably, then the two halves could be held together with self tapping screws, TFM does not like this and it is likely that he will buy more than anyone else, so maybe its not such a good idea after all.

Problem is that there really isn't enough room to put screws in as the board (assuming it is like the original) fills the cartridge. We are however working on making these clips a bit more user friendly if possible, and we intend to try to make them so that the cart can be re-opened a number of times. It is important to remember however that they are not intended to open and close like the pages of a book and will only be able to withstand a certain amount. It is a bind for the moment but not one which has us desperately scrambling for alternatives, more a good challenge and an excellent learning curve .

I am interested though in the cartridge length. Adam will probably kill me after all the effort he has put in so far, but would a bit more length in the cartridge make it more versatile for projects?

Just a thought.

[TFM]

If the clips prove too difficult to make work reliably, then the two halves could be held together with self tapping screws, TFM does not like this and it is likely that he will buy more than anyone else, so maybe its not such a good idea after all.

I wouldn't mind them if they work well. 

[gerald]

I am interested though in the cartridge length. Adam will probably kill me after all the effort he has put in so far, but would a bit more length in the cartridge make it more versatile for projects?

I did a sketchup model of the cartridge. You can find it there : Existing games => Cartridges
It is not 100% accurate regarding the outside border. I designed them as vertical, where there are slightly angled.
You can use it as a starting base for alternate clip/screw or length changes.

The screw (M3 or M2.5) can be an option. Placing them in place of the clip at the back of the cart or or a little bit off at the front to avoid interfering with the locking mechanism.

I currently have custom cart cooking, but it should fit in a standard cartridge enclosure.

[Gryzor]

Wait, why not put the clips on the outside? Who said they need to look 100% identical?


As for the tape lid, of course it needs to be as close to the original, and no distinguishing mark is needed really, since it's just a part. The issue with the cartridges arise from the fact that there have been home-burned cartridges sold on eBay as originals, and those pirates would have a field day if they got their hands on a source of cases (they dismantle older ones now).

[steve]

@Gryzor, are you saying don't make cartridges because the polish bootleggers will use them?
It is really not our business if bootleggers are at work, if the copyright owners care then they know what to do.
I think these cartridge cases will result in new cartridge software being produced and that software will be of far higher quality than the existing cartridges, the new cartridges may even take business from the bootleggers.

[BluesBrothers]

@Gryzor, are you saying don't make cartridges because the polish bootleggers will use them?
It is really not our business if bootleggers are at work, if the copyright owners care then they know what to do.
I think these cartridge cases will result in new cartridge software being produced and that software will be of far higher quality than the existing cartridges, the new cartridges may even take business from the bootleggers.

To be fair I see where Gryzor is coming from. Sod the Copyright owners tbh, it is their's to police. I think that the unsuspecting buyer is the one who should be considered here. I have an Ebay store and I know my buyers pretty well and they want originals to collect and I reckon they'd be pretty pissed to find out months down the line that what they paid for was a dodgy bootleg.

My questions in relation to alterations to the cartridge were more about making them suitable (or should I say "more/better suitable") for projects such as Bryce's multi-cart. I had though that if all the openings for the multi-cart could be contained beneath the label section of the cart case then we could fashion in some pop-out areas for such a purpose. Or if for an original piece of new software simply label over the area and it is to all intense and purposes like the original but in a different colour. The idea being for a slick finish either way at minimal cost.

As for the clips... we'll keep working and I'm confident we can get them to work as we want them to

[steve]

I would think that 99.99% of cases would be used as standard cartridges, if anyone wants to put custom hardware in the case then they can drill a couple of holes easily enough, they may even join two cartridges together if they need more room.

[Gryzor]

Um... if you read the flow of discussion I never suggested not making them because of pirates, where on earth did you get that? From early on I just said these should be possible to tell from the originals easily so as to not pass as original titles by the bootleggers.

[TFM]

The only thing I can say here: I would like to put 6128 Plus Games on Cartridge. One will be my Giana Sisters Clone Plus version, but there is two others waiting in pipeline.

Soooo. If I get Cartridge shells, then I can do that. If not then not. I'm very pragmatic in that regard. And as told before, I don't care about bootleggers of what ever. Any idea/force/Cart can be used for good and evil. But that should not automatically prohibit progress. And I think that we all agree more or less in the latter one. 

[arnoldemu]

We have much less scope for custom cartridges than compared to c64 or other systems because we have less signals available on the cartridge connector. We are limited to address lines, data lines, and some other logic for the acid (or replacement) to communicate with the asic.

A longer case is fine, true it could be easier to remove, and if it makes it easier for screws then perhaps it's better.

[BluesBrothers]

I would think that 99.99% of cases would be used as standard cartridges, if anyone wants to put custom hardware in the case then they can drill a couple of holes easily enough, they may even join two cartridges together if they need more room.

Ok, great. Just the sort of perspective I am looking for. You can't beat a good percentage stat

[BluesBrothers]

We have much less scope for custom cartridges than compared to c64 or other systems because we have less signals available on the cartridge connector. We are limited to address lines, data lines, and some other logic for the acid (or replacement) to communicate with the asic.

A longer case is fine, true it could be easier to remove, and if it makes it easier for screws then perhaps it's better.

Great feedback, thank you.

I'm with you on making it a bit longer, it could solve each issue easily by simply adding about 10-20mm in length. I will get straight on to Adam and see if he's happy to do this (I know he's worked quite hard on the reproduction already), he might just say no he's to far along in the process but it's worth asking the question.

[Munchausen]

Any news on this? Looking forward to seeing the new cases!

[BluesBrothers]

Sorry, I know it's been a while since I last updated on the situation. I must confess real life has got in the way to a large degree combined with the fact that Adam the plastics guy has been on a long summer holiday.
Tbh not much has happened since my last post but don't worry it will, if I stick my neck out and say I'll do something then I make sure it gets done one way or another. If you could please just bear with me a little longer and I will report back as soon as I have more info.

[Munchausen]

Hey don't worry, in my experience life always get's in the way of geekery, and I don't want to be the CPCwiki equivalent of a child asking "are we nearly there yet?", it's just exciting to see this happening because it's awesome! (And I don't even have a 6128+)