Adventures with PC 3.5" Floppy to CPC

[darkhalf]

Been looking into different ways to get 3.5" PC floppy disks recognised on my CPC.

Lots of information on here, but the occasional missing youtube /link plus some confusion with the different software and its capabilities. Here is a bit of a summary of what I've found.

Hopefully useful to anyone else looking into this. I'm using Parados V1.2+ on my CPC6128 with 3.5" drive configured as drive B. Also testing CPC464 + DDI3 (Parados 1.2) + Gotek as Drive A:

Various formats and some mapping:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_floppy_disk_formats

Amstrad CPC DD,1, 40 tracks, 9 sectors (512byte/sector) 180kB x 2
Amstrad PCW DD,2, 80 tracks, 9 sectors (512byte/sector) 720kb
IBM PC DD, 1, 80 tracks, 8 sectors (512byte/sector) 320KB => IBM SS 80
IBM PC DD, 1, 80 tracks, 9 sectors (512byte/sector) 360KB => DATA SS 80
IBM PC DD, 2, 80 tracks, 8 sectors (512byte,sector) 640KB => IBM DS 80
IBM PC DD, 2, 80 tracks, 9 sectors (512byte,sector) 720KB => DATA SS 80 | ROMDOS D1 (128 dir), D2 (256 dir)

One of the first things that confused me was the list of formats on page 4 of the Parados manual:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/0/0d/Parados.pdf

The IBM mapping in the list is specifically for 8 sectors per track. Whilst you can run MSDOS format.com with /t:8 for 8 tracks it is not the default for most disk images: format command and the default is actually 9 sectors per track.

So using the IBM formats in the PARADOS table won't work properly, unless you specifically format for this. So for now I've turned my focus to the DATA DS80 format (716k bye) with 9 sectors/track

I was using WinImage to make empty images (IMG) and then copying files into them. Then using Greaseweazle to copy the images to disk. I use the FluxMyFluffyFloppy GUI tool to assist.

I've also used Greaseweazele to write SCP (Supercard Pro) format files (converted from disk inside HxCFloppyEmulator) successfully.

Parados / XEXOR

Setting up parados, we use the |drive command and then make sure drive B: is configured 80 tracks, double sided. There are some notes about the Electro formats, and DATA DS80 is one of them. Some versions of parados have Electro format set on by default. This version does not.

So we enable Electro format, but then notice other options. By default D1/D10 options are enabled here. Not sure why. Not sure if we were able to turn them off, that maybe our disk could be readable.

If at this stage I try and log the PC disk, the file names are is filled with boxes. This is despite setting the correct values as per Page 5 of the manual. Changing the format to IBM Formats, I can see some of the files but it is still a corrupted listing. Similar with AMSDOS.

So we try our PC disk with the XEXOR tool. I've run with V3 of the tool as V1 has copy protection, noted if you view the XEXOR DSK inside HxCFloppyEmulator

One of the things to note from the manual is there are |VERIFY, |HELP etc commands mentioned. These are actually entered inside the program (not from AMSDOS).

Inside the drive configuration menu, I set 80 tracks, double sided. After pressing OK I found XEXOR does not keep these settings when returning to this menu. So I wasn't able to use this program with DRIVE B. I've had a look through the commands in the user guide, but can't seem to find anything to configure and then 'set' it properly. More investigation needed.

CPM SETB
Next we move into |CPM and look at the XEXOR tool SETB.COM which comes with some (DOC) instructions you can 'type' from CPM. So we call 'SETB 80 DS' to set 80 track/double sided. Here we find this format for this is not 100% compatible with our PC formatted disk, as it couldn't show the directory listing in CPM.

So we this point I went back to PARADOS and formatted another new 3.5" as DATA DS80, copied some files on there inside the software from drive A. Then I went into XEXOR and the file listings showed the files okay, and then inside CPM, after calling SETB for 80/DS we could view the copied files using TYPE and they showed correctly. I then try this DATA DS80 disk in my PC USB disk drive, and the parados format is not recognised.

2in1 / MFU
Both of these from Moonstone. Links:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/2_in_1
https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=4744
https://cpcrulez.fr/applications_disc-2in1.htm?t=Ug==

From their ad:

Moonstone's 2IN1, the Rolls-Royce of CPC/PC file transfer utilities, not only allows the transfer of files by copying to and reading from PC disks but it also allows the same data disk to be used in both machines. FORMAT, COPY, CAT, IDENTIFY FORMAT etc. PC disks on your CPC. Full range of utilities fully menu driven. When compared to the rest AA said "Quite simply, it knocks the competition into a cocked waste paper basket".

https://cpcrulez.fr/applications_disc-multi_format_utility.htm

Transfers files easily to and from PC's, various CPM format machines (e.g. PCW), BBC's, Osborne and other computers. Its PC transfer is the basic 2IN1 program but without all the facilities. When MFU's PC transfer capability was compared with all the alternatives (except 2IN1), it was judged by AA to be "head and shoulders above the rest".

GENERAL
If you just want PC transfers then 2IN1 is by far the best. If you also need transfers to/from the other machines, then MFU is the one to have

Both tools are really good but you must run them from CPM. After setting up Parados back to 80 track/double I was able to list the files from the PC disk in the software, and then select and copy files to CPC disc A:

Issues with the software I had were related to the 444K DKTronics RAMdisc configured as drive C:. If copying the 2in1 program files to RAMdisk or trying to copy from B: to C: then it would freeze or get a BDOS error. Documentation here

Symbos
If you are already using SYMBOS, then this is the easiest option. Normally I run from 4xROM on an M4 Board. Using the inbuilt explorer SYMBOS will work with your existing drives (so 3" as A: and then 3.5" as B: and M4 storage as C:). No issues listing files and copying between different disks. Definitely the best option

CPCDiskXP
Later versions allow you to use a USB Floppy drive (earlier native floppy drivers will only work with older IDE PC hardware). CPCDiskXP will copy a DSK file in 40 track single sided format to your Amstrad using a plugin USB drive.

From http://www.cpcmania.com/news.htm

You need a formatted disk from windows. Once covered the "high density" tab on the floppy, you have to format it in FAT 720Kb using the windows command line "FORMAT A: /T:80 /N:9".
Start CPCDiskXP, press 'DSK Editor' button.
'New', select IBM format (last in the list).
Now Add the files you want to write
Select the  'USB Floppy Drive' option
Press 'Write USB Floppy' button to write the Dsk.
Test/Load on your real CPC....

This works fine if you don't have issue copying each file into the DSK image and then back out the other side. You don't get the full 720K usage of the disk either.

However, to use the 3.5" disk you either need to disable PARADOS. Or otherwise inside PARADOS configure drive B for 40 tracks, single sided, and then the format I found had to be set to 'IBM formats' for my disk to be properly usable.

WriteDSK

Unfortunately some links to this download are dead. CPC Wiki page here and downloads from CPC Power here and CPCRulez here
Simply use the command inside the CPC:

|writedsk,"filename.dsk","ba"

To put the DSK image onto the A: drive, make sure PARADOS is configured properly and then use |DIRDOS to view contents and |WRITEDSK to image the drive A disc.

There is a ROM version. Despite my screenshot from the emulator showing the ROM version working, I could not get my EPROM/EEPROM versions working (ROM not detected) but the M4 ROM was fine if it was in slot 5. CPCRulez shows a version 1.1 so might try that next.

This method is similar to CPCDiskXP in that the files must be inside a DSK image.

Other notes
Later versions of Windows create hidden 'System Information' directories on discs and USB sticks. This can cause issues sometimes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/158j0ow/any_way_to_prevent_windows_1011_from_autowriting/
Turn off system restore is a bit of a brutal method, but the best I could find so far?

Both 2in1 and Writedsk can natively read a PC 720K floppy and pull stuff from it. In Parados 'IBM format' gets a corrupted view of the folder.

However wondering if natively would Parados/XEXOR can be configured to read 720K formatted PC disks. I was under the impression DATA DS80 was compatible. With MSDOS having the capacity of 65535 files/directories perhaps that is why special software is required to read the directories properly.

[ZorrO]

Don't you think more simple is use this:  Dos-Copy
https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=11044

[St-BeidE(DE/GB)]

Don't you think more simple is use this:  Dos-Copy
https://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=11044

I totally forgot about that 

[darkhalf]

Don't you think more simple is use this:  Dos-Copy

Thanks. Yeah never knew about it (stopped reading Amstrad Action before 1994). Funnily enough was just watching the Face Hugger Megademo the other day.

DOS-COPY

Reading the docco it makes sense about file system differences. The AMSDOS headers include for BAS/BIN files the type and address entry, which is not compatible with MSDOS FAT types. So you either setup as 'ASCII' (to keep header info in the file), or handling 'BINARY' otherwise (without header info).

Seems that Parados won't be able to handle that part (MSDOS without header info) for you.

Program needs to be run from disk (may be able to convert to ROM file), and the maximum file size from the MSDOS 720K is going to be the destination size 360K. Nice UI and easy to format disks, and select and copy files between formats.

M4 File Transfer

The next one worth mentioning which skews away from MSDOS disks is the M4 file transfer. Drag/Drop has stopped working in later chrome versions but Edge still is fine. You can easily copy files on the the M4 card. Copying to disk still needs SYMBOS or M4FE to copy DSK images to floppy

USIFAC II
Another one worth mentioning. Few things to setup with bluetooth (or WIFI) and making both ends are talking. Once that is done using inbuilt commands to navigate the PC disk. I've had a number of troubles with this thing, where it gets into weird states where it freezes up and during tonights test no longer displays the startup image. So might have to reprogram the PIC and try again later