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General Category => Applications => Topic started by: arnoldemu on 19:13, 14 October 10

Title: cp/m various versions
Post by: arnoldemu on 19:13, 14 October 10
I see on the wiki that there are pictures of the various versions of the cpm discs (ddi-1 version, 664, 6128 plus version).
Where can I download these as dsk?

I am interested to see the differences and the different .com files that were with them.
I have started to dissassemble some of the com files that come with the 6128.
I'm interested to see what they are doing.
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: AMSDOS on 03:59, 15 October 10
I think Brian Watson maybe able to help out with this - though I think he only had the Discs themselves (not Disc Images). I'm hoping (for the sake of the programs I'm been creating and the website) that CP/M v2.2 is to some extent the same - in that it can run the programs I've been generating. All I know is it works with the CP/M v2.2 supplied on the Turbo Pascal Disc and CP/M v2.2 from Side 4 of the CP/M Plus Disc set.
 
Unfortunately I don't know how to get a hold of Brian, he has been on comp.sys.amstrad.8bit so you can reach him there if all else fails.
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: arnoldemu on 13:41, 15 October 10
I think Brian Watson maybe able to help out with this - though I think he only had the Discs themselves (not Disc Images). I'm hoping (for the sake of the programs I'm been creating and the website) that CP/M v2.2 is to some extent the same - in that it can run the programs I've been generating. All I know is it works with the CP/M v2.2 supplied on the Turbo Pascal Disc and CP/M v2.2 from Side 4 of the CP/M Plus Disc set.
 
Unfortunately I don't know how to get a hold of Brian, he has been on comp.sys.amstrad.8bit so you can reach him there if all else fails.
I am sure cp/m will be the same.

It may be that some of the .com files from the cpc6128 disc will work both with cp/m 2.2 and cp/m +, i.e. they have been updated to work with both. Whereas the com files of the same name in cp/m 2.2 will only work with cp/m 2.2. Here I am talking about the Amstrad specific com files that talk to the firmware.

Also, it seems that the 464 and 664 versions have some other .com files made for them, would be interesting to dissassemble these, also to dissassemble the other com files of the same names and see if there are any differences.

Well I do have the 464 and I think 664 cpm discs, but I haven't got my cpcs setup up to transfer these and I was hoping somebody else would.

I've got dissassembled 2 other com files and also the boot sectors for cpm 2.2 and cpm+ now.
it's interesting even if I never use it, maybe it will come in more useful for others like yourself.

talking of cpm, have you tried the other variants on cpc? zpm etc?

Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: TFM on 19:43, 15 October 10
Well, you guys should use the Z system instead of CP/M Plus, this provides Unix like power for the CPC. I'm talking about Z3Plus not NZCOM. Named Directories, Shell stacks, Error handler, History and and and...
 
Disassemblies of "old" CP/M COM files are nice, but the source is already out there... (but in poor 8080 menomics, so to have it in Z80 is more beautifull).
 
 
EDIT: Just one good point to start is http://www.znode51.de/indexe.htm (http://www.znode51.de/indexe.htm)
 
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: AMSDOS on 00:37, 16 October 10
I think you'll find that if you visit my website, it will clearly explain which variant of CP/M I use!  ;D  I know of ZCPR, my general concern about it is how it would handle firmware dependant code from a procedure CP/M v2.2 sets up.
Perhaps a suitable patch could be applied to this environment, though caution would have to be applied - maybe ZCPR has an alternative means of accessing the Firmware?
I've noticed some progress has been made in the PCW range of computers, so there maybe some sort of support.  :-[
 
I briefly had a look at a ROM variant of CP/M (forgot what it's called specifically, though it's on NVG), which from what I recall was of CP/M Plus.
 
Unfortunately I only have the System Discs from my 6128. Brian may have something, sadly though my feeling is there's not a lot of interest for CP/M in the community, (I maybe wrong but I felt) AA damaged it's image by labelling it as the Format program (DiscKit3) and spearing it from claims about how Buggy it was!  >:(  Which really suprises me after all the attention it gave to CP/M in their early issues (AA once catered for the PCWs which was something I didn't realise until recently!  ??? )
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:05, 17 October 10

Disassemblies of "old" CP/M COM files are nice, but the source is already out there... (but in poor 8080 menomics, so to have it in Z80 is more beautifull).
 
 
EDIT: Just one good point to start is http://www.znode51.de/indexe.htm (http://www.znode51.de/indexe.htm)
I don't think the sources for the CPC specific COM files are out there or of the CPC BIOS?
For the digital research stuff yes.
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:27, 17 October 10
Well, you guys should use the Z system instead of CP/M Plus, this provides Unix like power for the CPC. I'm talking about Z3Plus not NZCOM. Named Directories, Shell stacks, Error handler, History and and and...
Yes it would be interesting to try these.
But really, I don't plan to go that deep into CP/M.
I am more interested to know if these "new" developments will run on CPCs.

Disassemblies of "old" CP/M COM files are nice, but the source is already out there... (but in poor 8080 menomics, so to have it in Z80 is more beautifull).
Yes. In the other thread I said that I will not dissassemble the COM files which are digital research ones.
I am more interested in dissassembly of the Amstrad specific ones of which there are only a few (disckit2, disckit3, filecopy, format, set24x80, palette, fwreset etc)

I am more interested about the memory structure and the boot sequence.
Then I would know better how to help others who want to use cp/m environment to make games for cpc.
e.g. how to have direct access to the screen from under cp/m.
I know it's not *pure* because it's accessing the underlying firmware functions, but that doesn't bother me.
I am only interested for the cpc side of it.
I am also interested to know if the newer cpm type environments can be used on a cpc, and if so if there are some boot discs out there to see them running. but that is about it.
 
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: TFM on 06:55, 19 October 10
I don't think the sources for the CPC specific COM files are out there or of the CPC BIOS?
For the digital research stuff yes.

Well, what I have is the complete CP/M Plus source for the CPC including the Dobbertine RAM disc drivers and hard drive drivers. The only problem is that I have them at the other end of the world :-(
 
You can try to find Helmut Jungkunz in the net (try gaby.de as start), he is supposed to have them too.
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: TFM on 07:01, 19 October 10
I am only interested for the cpc side of it.
I am also interested to know if the newer cpm type environments can be used on a cpc, and if so if there are some boot discs out there to see them running. but that is about it.

Sure, CPC only also for me  ;D  Well, I used the Z3Plus system (and a bit the NZCOM) with the CPC. The last Wordstar was using the TC capabilities, which means text had attributes and so on. It's like working with unix on a CPC. You have all that abouve mentioned stuff. I still have the Z3Plus running on my Dobbertin HD20 hard disc with all that named-directories and so on. It's kicks ass and you don't want to use trash like M$-DOS any longer. Z3P _is_ superior. However I had to focus on other OS then... I can try to get some DSKs together. On the other hand you can get all the CPC related stuff form CP/M sites. Just need a bit of searching... ;-)
 
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: AMSDOS on 13:38, 20 October 10
TFM/FS wrote:
 
Sure, CPC only also for me  ;D  Well, I used the Z3Plus system (and a bit the NZCOM) with the CPC. The last Wordstar was using the TC capabilities, which means text had attributes and so on. It's like working with unix on a CPC. You have all that abouve mentioned stuff. I still have the Z3Plus running on my Dobbertin HD20 hard disc with all that named-directories and so on. It's kicks ass and you don't want to use trash like M$-DOS any longer. Z3P _is_ superior. However I had to focus on other OS then... I can try to get some DSKs together. On the other hand you can get all the CPC related stuff form CP/M sites. Just need a bit of searching... ;-)

Obviously the sites you know and the sites I know are completely different! The and Illusive CP/M Games Disc from Robot PD remains forever hidden - maybe the games on it are that bad or bug ridden their scared to reveal it!!  ;)
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: arnoldemu on 13:45, 20 October 10
TFM/FS wrote:
 
Sure, CPC only also for me  ;D  Well, I used the Z3Plus system (and a bit the NZCOM) with the CPC. The last Wordstar was using the TC capabilities, which means text had attributes and so on. It's like working with unix on a CPC. You have all that abouve mentioned stuff. I still have the Z3Plus running on my Dobbertin HD20 hard disc with all that named-directories and so on. It's kicks ass and you don't want to use trash like M$-DOS any longer. Z3P _is_ superior. However I had to focus on other OS then... I can try to get some DSKs together. On the other hand you can get all the CPC related stuff form CP/M sites. Just need a bit of searching... ;-)

Obviously the sites you know and the sites I know are completely different! The and Illusive CP/M Games Disc from Robot PD remains forever hidden - maybe the games on it are that bad or bug ridden their scared to reveal it!!  ;)
I've got an old znode51 cd (probably still up to date though ;), and also one archive from robot pd so maybe I can find some of these for you in the next few days.
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: AMSDOS on 12:16, 21 October 10
There's a whole heap of Robot PD stuff available from David Cantell's Mirror website:
 
Quote
21100*  VDE
The commercial quality word-processor (file length up to 60k) in both its original and revised "ZDE" forms, plus a PD spell-checker.
21101 Express Writer and Bradford, two word-processors with high quality printout options.
21400*  Printmaster
Ingenious poster and card design package, with an integral font and clip art library. Easy to use and capable of superb results.
21600 GigaCAD
Graphical CAD system from Germany. CP/M 2.2 only
22000 Miscellaneous utilities including date-stamping, print processing, and easy menu creation.
22100*  Filesweep utilities
A set of intuitive file utilities, including the classic Newsweep (NSWP) and enhancements such as Maxisweep. If you can use ParaDOS, you can use these. 
22101 Sector editors and extended format utilities, including PC and PCW disc readers. Not PCW
22300 File crunchers, providing a highly space-effective way of archiving your spare files.
22301 File crunchers.
22400 Two front-ends: the excellent GUI of Geno (CP/M 2.2 only) and the Unix-like command line of SUnix.
23102 The SmartModem terminal and CRR (CP/M Read and Reply off-line reader). 
23103 Kermit and UUCP file transfer, plus the CPC-Modem terminal program.
23205 XRAS bulletin-board system.
24100*  ZBASIC and MBASIC
Two alternative versions of BASIC. ZBASIC is a cut-down version of a fast commercial BASIC compiler, while Microsoft's classic MBASIC is the program with which the manufacturers of Windows first made their name.
24200 XLisp
24300 JRT Pascal disc 1
24301 JRT Pascal disc 2
An interpreted version of the language with extensive documentation.
24302 Small C
24400 Z80dis
Flexible Z80 disassembler.
24401*  Dazzlestar, arguably the most fully-featured disassembler available for Z80 systems, plus powerful assembler ZSM.

 
Unfortunately the one I'm interested in 26300 ain't there!  :(  I had a look at Geno (22400), which is nice, though it's not really graphic (apart from the Loading Screen).  ;)
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: Gryzor on 14:43, 21 October 10
Ooh.... nice find... but where exactly?

Btw, David is a great guy. When I was living in the UK he donated a 464 of his (complete with fantastic goodies) to me, thus sparking my collection, and we had a quite lengthy exchange of emails on everything, from old computers to ancient English... I don't think I ever thanked him enough!
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: AMSDOS on 10:46, 22 October 10
Gryzor wrote:

Ooh.... nice find... but where exactly?

I thought everyone was familiar with David Cantell's website (http://www.cantrell.org.uk/mirrors/) ;)
 
Just click on the Robot PD directory and the numbers in that correspond to the numbers in my text reflect those files!  ;D  Obviously there's a lot more in there though, I just put in the CP/M related stuff!  ;)

Btw, David is a great guy. When I was living in the UK he donated a 464 of his (complete with fantastic goodies) to me, thus sparking my collection, and we had a quite lengthy exchange of emails on everything, from old computers to ancient English... I don't think I ever thanked him enough!
 
I'm sure David is a great guy  ;D  Do know if he could help me out with my Latin though?!  :-[
 
Just down in the bog at the moment which is driving me nuts!  :(
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: Gryzor on 13:19, 22 October 10
Ah! Under Mirrors... thanks :)
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: AMSDOS on 08:22, 23 October 10
I've been having a rummage through the znode51. Somewhere I got the impression it was all CP/M based, though there's some AMSDOS based stuff on there, along with Kev's Extensive Guide to Firmware, amongst other Hardware information for the CPC. About the most interesting thing on that is an Invaders game for the CPC done for CP/M. Unfortunately there's no source, it's all done using Text anyway!
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: arnoldemu on 16:08, 24 October 10
I've been having a rummage through the znode51. Somewhere I got the impression it was all CP/M based, though there's some AMSDOS based stuff on there, along with Kev's Extensive Guide to Firmware, amongst other Hardware information for the CPC. About the most interesting thing on that is an Invaders game for the CPC done for CP/M. Unfortunately there's no source, it's all done using Text anyway!
I looked on my robot pd archive and I couldn't find those cpm discs either :(
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: redbox on 20:16, 24 October 10
Just thought you might be interested in this (http://benryves.com/projects/z80computer) - I was reading about homebrew computers and came across this one (based on a Z80) and the guy who made it ported CP/M to it.

Problem with CP/M is always that it uses some of the specific hardware routines depending on the platform it's running on, but it's interesting none the less.
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: Gryzor on 21:06, 24 October 10
Great little machine - and BBC basic to boot!

Wish I had the skills to do stuff like that - I've got an engineer friend who's always tinkering away, after developing and building network hardware for a living...

Sorry, off-topic.
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: TFM on 21:10, 24 October 10
Problem with CP/M is always that it uses some of the specific hardware routines depending on the platform it's running on, but it's interesting none the less.

Well, you can't call it problem. If you want to run an OS on different hardware, then you need a BIOS that is made for one particular machine.
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: steve on 00:45, 25 October 10
The whole point of CP/M is that it allows software to run on different hardware, if it does not then it is a badly written program, not the fault of CP/M.
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: TFM on 02:41, 25 October 10
Exactly  :)
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: AMSDOS on 10:47, 25 October 10
redbox wrote:
 
Just thought you might be interested in this (http://benryves.com/projects/z80computer) - I was reading about homebrew computers and came across this one (based on a Z80) and the guy who made it ported CP/M to it.
 
Unfortunately I got to the bit in the video where it was talking about the problems in relation to the Z80 Input & Output, I say unfortunately because I accidentally clicked on something and it took me a while to get the video to that point where it decided to go to whatever I clicked, so I don't know if this has anything to do with the problems I've been having!  :(

Problem with CP/M is always that it uses some of the specific hardware routines depending on the platform it's running on, but it's interesting none the less.

It seems that those things may have a relationship between what's possible and what's not. Yes I can do quite a few things and CP/M adds support to the Firmware routines with it's own routine to Enter Firmware, though going into more involved things like Sprite Handling it appears to become to complicated in CP/M. I did post one demonstration which works in CP/M, though it's a quick and dirty Sprite Generator, quick in it is quite fast and uses tables to patch the sprite into place. The only work around I found when using another Sprite Routine was to Move the Screen from &C000 to &4000. I'm guessing that if are some Public Domain games which are using these techniques then they may also be moving the screen to that location. In Assembly it maybe more feasible to have a reasonible game and have the Screen Patched at &4000. More problematic in a High-Level Language because of the amount of memory one is going through.
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: arnoldemu on 11:37, 27 October 10
robcfg, many thanks for uploading the cpm system discs ! :)

EDIT: and thanks to CPCManiaco too!
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: robcfg on 11:46, 27 October 10
You're welcome!  ;)


Half of the disks were provided by CPCManiaco so you'll have to extend your thank to him too (just to be fair, hehe).


I dumped the german Amsoft disks but found an error on side 3, so I'll try to find a working copy of it and then I¡ll upload the whole package.
Title: Re: cp/m various versions
Post by: Cpcmaniaco on 03:13, 28 October 10
The other day, Rober came to my house to change the last hardware I let him to scan.
 
And I remenber this post about CPM disks, and dump the CPM disks that I Have.
 
We have some dude about the spanish and english CPM disks because has the same label.
 
I don't know is the disk is the same or not.