Author Topic: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)  (Read 33706 times)

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Offline Overflow

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #125 on: 10:11, 28 March 14 »
Wow!  8) I should have read that thread before. Nice to see BSC at work on a SID tracker.
 
I can hear the songs and sounds (I can wonder how to use that on demo), but I won't comment the tracker itself: I'm not the right guy to compose song.  :P
 
Anyway: I like the news and the sound.  :D
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Offline BSC

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #126 on: 12:23, 28 March 14 »
Wow!  8) I should have read that thread before. Nice to see BSC at work on a SID tracker. 
I can hear the songs and sounds (I can wonder how to use that on demo), but I won't comment the tracker itself: I'm not the right guy to compose song.  :P 
Anyway: I like the news and the sound.  :D
Thanks, great to know that you like it :)

About using it in a demo: It is basically a tightly timed play routine just as a sample player or your average line split: There's something to be done every 72us (not 64us as  with splits). This something is picking the next sample value and sending to the AY, which takes 23 nops per iteration (and there are 277 in total). So there are 49 nops left,

BUT: this does not apply for all the iterations, because approx. 30 to 40 of those are needed to do instrument and song playing logic and to write the other AY registers. That still leaves you with more than 200 iterations (i.e. 225 scanlines) with the aforementioned spare 49 nops where you can do anything you like,

BUT(2): many of the CPU registers are pre-loaded and can't be used. In an earlier post I essentially said that you can't use any register - which was plain crap.
Currently the d, ix and iyl registers are free and there could be more with a bit of refactoring etc. The other registers could of course also be used, but then you'd have to pay the price of saving/restoring the value (because it could be anything at that time) or setting it to a known constant (like f4 or f6 to address the PPI/AY)

Some of this should remind you of Backtro where I guess you had to deal with similar constraints and thus had to resort to color cycling and the likes.

Some ppl have already expressed interest in integrating the player with some fancy on-screen action btw :)

Offline sigh

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #127 on: 12:32, 28 March 14 »
I'm going to be away for 2 weeks, but I will check that manual when I get back.

Offline Overflow

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #128 on: 13:06, 28 March 14 »
Quote from: BSC
About using it in a demo (...)
Thanks for the explanations, all was very clear.
I also a quick look at the code (sid+monty.sna):
one "big loop" takes 19628 NOP-cycles (but 1 loop out of 12 takes 19654; as expected?).
I believe it won't be a big deal to reach 19968 / expected VBL
(first by adding 2 more double-routines (that routine of 72+72=144 NOP-cycles)?)
 
Quote from: BSC
Some ppl have already expressed interest in integrating the player with some fancy on-screen action btw :)
Nice! I believe this is the best idea: not trying to integrate your player into some possibly existing fx ideas,
but rather think about then build some fancy on-screen action to support the song/sounds the best way possible.
Some ppl  (...) : we don't want to know who, keep it secret.  :P
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Offline McKlain

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #129 on: 14:01, 28 March 14 »
Did you try any of the two new snapshots? Maybe even tried to compose a bit?

I want to try it this weekend and make some music, right now I have work to do. You know, the kind that pays the bills  :laugh: 

BTW, use the URL bbcode to make the internal links on the forum work.

AYAY Manual

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4237



« Last Edit: 14:09, 28 March 14 by McKlain »

Offline BSC

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #130 on: 00:04, 29 March 14 »
Thanks for the explanations, all was very clear.
I also a quick look at the code (sid+monty.sna):
one "big loop" takes 19628 NOP-cycles (but 1 loop out of 12 takes 19654; as expected?).
I believe it won't be a big deal to reach 19968 / expected VBL
(first by adding 2 more double-routines (that routine of 72+72=144 NOP-cycles)?)

The differences in the NOP count you saw are unintentionally... consider that a bug.
As you might have seen in the code, there's a lot of NOPs to align the sample playback with the 72us grid.
Some of these parts got messed up along the way (and are really cumbersome to maintain anyway..).
I'll fix that later. And I hope this can be done programmatically somehow. Yes, adding 2 loop iterations
should bring it closer to 19968 nops.

Nice! I believe this is the best idea: not trying to integrate your player into some possibly existing fx ideas,
but rather think about then build some fancy on-screen action to support the song/sounds the best way possible.

Yes, I just have to find some ppl to take care of this :D

Some ppl  (...) : we don't want to know who, keep it secret.  :P

Ok, I was about to tell you who it was, but ok, I agree, secret is secret ;-)
I didn't want to put pressure on the guys and I don't even know iirc, but Arnoldemu and maybe Offset and also Rhino come to my mind (but don't tell anyone!)

Offline BSC

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #131 on: 16:32, 31 March 14 »
I want to try it this weekend and make some music, right now I have work to do. You know, the kind that pays the bills  :laugh: 

BTW, use the URL bbcode to make the internal links on the forum work.


How was your weekend? :D


Thanks for the bbcode tutorial, I got it working now :)

Offline BSC

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #132 on: 22:14, 13 April 14 »
I have released the source code. See here for details.




Offline BSC

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #133 on: 22:15, 27 April 14 »
Hoooray! McKlain has tested the tracker and gave some feedback on the editing facilities. Not surprisingly he stated that manually setting the duration of a note is quite unusual and slow. And I'd say it's probably error prone as well. So I decided to cure that by switching (back) to the classical piano roll display/editing (internally it will still be duration based, though) which will be part of another update I'll post here when I'm done with it.


Offline BSC

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #134 on: 23:58, 24 May 14 »
[...] which will be part of another update I'll post here when I'm done with it.


.. which might take a while to take place (as I haven't even started) ..

Offline TFM

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #135 on: 04:58, 06 January 15 »
Any news about this great project?

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Offline Ast

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #136 on: 21:34, 06 January 15 »
discontinued, i think. Bsc gaves us the code source thinking  maybe someone could make a gui, but.... As always, nothing!  :-X
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Offline TFM

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #137 on: 22:41, 06 January 15 »
Well... making a GUI is simple, the other part it the tricky one.  ;)
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Offline arnoldemu

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #138 on: 11:09, 07 January 15 »
BSC made a great achievement - a working SID "effect" player on CPC. (called this because it can do more).
He showed a work in progress functional gui and published some sounds made with it.

I do plan to use it in a future production but I am not ready yet.

Others showed some interest but then nothing. Has anyone used it yet and published a sound made from it??


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Offline TFM

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #139 on: 18:58, 07 January 15 »
Yes it is great work! Are you going to make the GUI for it? Or do I misunderstand your usage of it? Sorry, I'm not a sound person, but I see he did great work and it should be finished up.  :)
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Offline arnoldemu

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #140 on: 19:51, 07 January 15 »
Yes it is great work! Are you going to make the GUI for it? Or do I misunderstand your usage of it? Sorry, I'm not a sound person, but I see he did great work and it should be finished up.  :)
No my plan was to ask somebody to make a music with it.
Then to play it in a game in the title screen.
So I would try to make the "compiler" so I can play the music in a game.
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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #141 on: 19:53, 07 January 15 »
Good thing BSC released the source, so you should be able to do so. Good luck! Looking forward!  :) :) :)
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Offline BSC

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #142 on: 13:41, 09 January 15 »
BSC made a great achievement - a working SID "effect" player on CPC. (called this because it can do more).
He showed a work in progress functional gui and published some sounds made with it.

Thank you very much :)

Others showed some interest but then nothing. Has anyone used it yet and published a sound made from it??

McKlain tried it but rightfully mentioned that controlling the length of a note is currently cumbersome.
Others said they wanted to try it but never got back to me with real feedback.
Don't know what went wrong :( Maybe just that everyone is very very busy.

I was looking into some C dev chains for the CPC the other day. That might be something that I'd like to
try out to build the very easy GUI and all the things still missing to make it usable.

Offline sigh

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #143 on: 15:02, 09 January 15 »
Did you ever get round to doing a video tutorial on this?

Offline McKlain

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #144 on: 15:19, 09 January 15 »
I was looking into some C dev chains for the CPC the other day. That might be something that I'd like to
try out to build the very easy GUI and all the things still missing to make it usable.


That would be a quantum leap for the tracker  ;)




PS.
I'll write you an email before 2016  ;D

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #145 on: 13:50, 10 January 15 »

That would be a quantum leap for the tracker  ;)




PS.
I'll write you an email before 2016  ;D

Did you manage to make any tunes with this?
I would like to make some music demo's for the beat em up games title/menu sequence and the football game.

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #146 on: 14:06, 10 January 15 »
Did you manage to make any tunes with this?


Not really, I just made some test and gave some feedback to BSC. Right now you can't save or load files on the tracker, I think.

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #147 on: 20:15, 10 January 15 »

Right now you can't save or load files on the tracker, I think.

Okay.

Offline BSC

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #148 on: 22:50, 10 January 15 »
Did you ever get round to doing a video tutorial on this?

No, I have never made something like a video tutorial and would probably suck really badly..
And there's an ok-ish manual online that only few ppl bothered to have a look at. Honestly I doubt
this would be very different if a tutorial video was available.. But I might be completely wrong here ;)

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Re: SID tracker / player on CPC (non plus)
« Reply #149 on: 22:52, 10 January 15 »
That would be a quantum leap for the tracker  ;)

Indeed.. indeed.. But you could still try to create anything with it ;-) You could load and save using the snapshot
functionality of your emulator btw.

PS.
I'll write you an email before 2016  ;D

I can't say that of myself :D