Many many years ago I made quite a lot of music on the CPC, it was simple but I think it was good - working just using the basic BooTracker that came free with an Amstrad Action magazine once.
I want to start making music again, and wanted to do a piece for a project to be completed within the next 2 weeks. Maybe eventually I can contribute music to new games and projects too.
I'm told "STarKos" is the music tracker of choice to use these days! I think it was used for Orion Prime and others? Anyway...
I downloaded v1.2 from cpc-power website, but I'm struggling to get going.
* Is there an easy 'getting started' guide available anywhere or could someone assist me?
* Any full English instructions around? cpc-power has them in French, but only a small section about keyboard shortcuts are in English.
* Some keyboard short-cuts don't seem to be working via WinApe - like Ctrl + Fx keys to switch between editors :(
* Has any one got a file of sample songs and instruments that I could see in action and possibly crib from? :)
Cheers!
Take a look to the Grim page (http://www.grimware.org/doku.php/documentations/software/starkos/start)!!! ;)
Quote from: Xyphoe on 11:35, 20 October 12
* Is there an easy 'getting started' guide available anywhere or could someone assist me?
If I can work STArkos, then ANYONE can work STArkos! But SyX is correct, Grim's site has an English manual to get you started!
And if you need some ideas for instruments, then remember all of my disks come with .SKS files... use and abuse as much or as little as you want!
^_^
EDIT: Here's a quick convo I did this morning, it deals with most instrument types you will find; hardENV, percussion, arpeggio chords, octave arpeggios, note slide (up & down), pattern transposition and vibrato. Attached below in .rar form as the forum does not allow you to attach .SKS files. (The tune is Botkyrka Sidekickers by Dubmood)
Sure, STarKos is a great and intuitive program. We are lucky. :)
If you have windows, there is also Arkos Tracker (http://www.grimware.org/doku.php/documentations/software/arkos.tracker/start). That has a lot of example songs with it.
Quote from: TotO on 14:42, 20 October 12
Sure, STarKos is a great and intuitive program. We are lucky. :)
Intuitive? Hell NO! It's the 9th time I come back to it and understand nothing. It's talking about positions and tracks, but these basics are explained NOWHERE! It you know how to use Soundtrakker, then everything may be intuitive. But it you like to start from scratch... then it's just frustrating.
A good manual would start to explain the basics first, but I know writing manuals suxx.
I never understood the FutureOS logic, so I though that intuitive is not your cup of tea. ;)
As exemple, iXien (R-Type music) use STarKos the first time and done the Stage 2 music after only 2 hours of use.
It was like he use this software during all it's life... He said me then: "This software got clever features and is really intuitive."
So, I only repeat what he said... And finally suggest it was intended for musicians.
Obviously Starkos may be intuitive if you have used trackers before, understand that a pattern only takes one channel and not all three of them (like in classic trackers), and if you have all the key commands at hand.
Quote from: McKlain on 10:35, 24 October 12
Obviously Starkos may be intuitive if you have used trackers before, understand that a pattern only takes one channel and not all three of them (like in classic trackers), and if you have all the key commands at hand.
Sorry, but each pattern include the 3 channels on STarKos, like a standard tracker. But, STarKos allow to reuse each track on differents patterns.
So, the unity is not the Pattern but the Track. (Like a ASM coder unity is the bit and not the Byte). But nothing avoid you to use the Pattern as "unit". You just waste memory by not optimizing your soundtrack. (As a good C++ coder)
For all keys and specific functions, it's may be why the program get a user manual... ;)
Personally I use Arkos. You know, mouse support, windows file system and all that ;D
Quote from: McKlain on 11:02, 24 October 12
Personally I use Arkos. You know, mouse support, windows file system and all that ;D
That change nothing to the both program philosophy. ;)
Free to use what you want, the goal was to produce CPC content.
The pleasure of some are to do things on the CPC, others to do the things for the CPC.
STarkos/Arkos is more like FutureComposer (or SoundMon) than Protracker; you create tracks to fill patterns rather than creating whole patterns each time.
As you said TotO, it saves a whole load of memory when you're duplicating tracks! Take a look at Synthdrum by Zzzax (on SoundMon); it's a huge tune but broken down into 16 note tracks and transposed as required. Fits nicely in any small intro or cracktro! My conversion was 3k raw and 2k compiled; for a 5 minute tune, that's pretty good!
However, FutureComposer was a bastard to compose on (yes, I've done some of my OWN tunes in the past!), but really powerful! Swings and roundabouts, I guess! Protracker took off because it was so much easier and most early-demo programmers already had a .mod player routine from the fabled Soundtracker.
Another interesting thing is that you can create patterns shorter that tracks, to play only part of them. (sort of "clipping")
Quote from: TotO on 09:55, 24 October 12
I never understood the FutureOS logic, so I though that intuitive is not your cup of tea. ;)
Hey that's Kindergarden level! I'm just frustrated with all that soundtrakker, starkos etc. stuff since I never found a way to get started with it. Where is the connection to FutureOS? There is none! So don't give me that shit! :)
Thanks for your help guys! Been very busy again, but I'll look to delve into this next week hopefully.
Quote from: SyX on 11:50, 20 October 12
Take a look to the Grim page (http://www.grimware.org/doku.php/documentations/software/starkos/start)!!! ;)
Brilliant! I should have Google'd better! Cheers!
Quote from: Axelay on 05:03, 21 October 12
If you have windows, there is also Arkos Tracker (http://www.grimware.org/doku.php/documentations/software/arkos.tracker/start). That has a lot of example songs with it.
Ahhh! Right! This sounds a bit more up my street then if I have limited time, etc.
I'll be giving this a go first.
Not read any further, but I take it's no problem getting the finished song on a CPC .dsk file etc?
Quote from: Xyphoe on 09:11, 31 October 12Not read any further, but I take it's no problem getting the finished song on a CPC .dsk file etc?
If you are going to use Arkos Tracker, i have prepared a dsk for testing your songs fast and easy.
Only replace the song.bin file in the disk for your song. And the only important thing is when you export the song in Arkos Tracker, you need to use the export address 0x0850 (or 2128 in decimal).
That is all!!! :)
Thank you guys for your help so far in this topic.
I finally got around to having a stab at this, and I have some small progress after a couple of days.
I haven't really got the hang of 'instruments' and how they're constructed, I often find with the sample ones I'm getting weird cross overs and distortions with other instruments, or they suck at certain octaves. But I'm learning.
Anyway I wanted to start with something easy, most obvious easy synth song to start with I thought would be Van Halen's Jump.
Van Halen - Jump (HQ music video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlq0lYB3iSM#)
Attached is an Arkos song file with the opening 3 phrases after finally getting the timing right.
So whilst timing-wise and musically correct, it doesn't sound brilliant.
I wonder if some kind soul would take a look and choose some better instruments to improve the sound perhaps to get as close to the original or less untidy at least?
Maybe I can then see why some instruments and their construction sound better in some situations than others.
Or perhaps there's a better construction to do in the patterns by not using RST's all the time (certainly makes the main notes rather staccato-y)
Thanks in advance!
Can anyone help?
(Sorry, it's holding me back on a project for my next video :( )
Just a fast little test on pattern 3 :-)
I think the main voice should mix two notes on a single voice. That's would be instruments consuming but would leave another channel for a bass voice. I tried to do that in pattern 3 (but with no apergios on the main voice, just a bass).
Doing an existing music conversion is not the easiest thing to do, welcome to the marvellous world of AY :-).
Thank you very much!
Sorry for the delay in reply, but that's greatly appreciated.
And.... interesting!
That works really well - hard to describe but it sounds a lot more 'Amstrad CPC-y' if you know what I mean! Whereas my goal was to getting sounding more like the actual song, but coming from an Amstrad - which is maybe a bit daft but I was getting close to it.
I think my problem is a lack of understanding of instruments and their construction.
The sad thing for me is then that I don't think I'm going to turn this around as quick as I hoped I would and I'll have to learn and tinker/tweak a lot.
Out of interest, on the 2nd pattern I have two 'bass notes' an octave apart - why do I get the strange 'warping' (for want of a better term) effect? ie the same note and instrument later sound different - even though I've put RST's in etc?
Just had a thought.
My problem essentially is -
* I only have 3 channels to play with.
* 1 channel has to be used for the bass
* There are 3 notes for the chords for the song - which takes up all 3 channels
* I have to interrupt the bass to do this
So!
My question is seeing what TomEtJerry did with their instrument...
Taking Instrument 02 there named "Jump Keys" (my original one) - I LIKE that sound, but could it be made to play two notes at once with clever trickery? Say 4 notes or 5 notes apart?
That way I might only need to take 1 channel for 2 notes of the chord.
Off topic:
@Xyphoe: Holy shmoly! I thought you had disappeared :laugh:
Anyway....good luck with the music.
Quote from: Xyphoe on 05:56, 13 September 13
Just had a thought.
My problem essentially is -
* I only have 3 channels to play with.
But everyone writing AY tunes has the same problem ;)
I think you'll find a way to work well with it!
Sometimes there are ways to make it sound like there are more channels by the way the notes are played.
Keep going!
Ah, an arpeggio version of Jump, that would be quite the thing.
You can "mix" the bass and drums in one channel if needed. Also for the chords, the most usual thing is to use arpeggios to save channels.
A quick example:
Quote from: Xyphoe on 08:10, 22 August 13
I haven't really got the hang of 'instruments' and how they're constructed, I often find with the sample ones I'm getting weird cross overs and distortions with other instruments, or they suck at certain octaves. But I'm learning.
Most of your crossovers and distortion problems come from using hard sounds in several channels at once. I would recommend you to stick to "normal" sounds until you master them.
Quote from: McKlain on 13:33, 13 September 13
You can "mix" the bass and drums in one channel if needed. Also for the chords, the most usual thing is to use arpeggios to save channels.
A quick example:
Oh McKlain .... that's awesome! :o I think you've cracked it and well... I can't see how much more I could improve on that!!! :D
Do you mind if I use this? I was making it as a short intro for my YouTube videos.
Over time though I will use the basis of this and possibly finish the whole song :)
Of course, go ahead!. And don't mind making changes of your own to the song, I think that there is a lot of room for improvement on it :)
Quote from: McKlain on 08:39, 18 September 13
Of course, go ahead!. And don't mind making changes of your own to the song, I think that there is a lot of room for improvement on it :)
Thanks! :)
And what else do you think could be improved upon specifically?
Quote from: Xyphoe on 03:37, 18 September 13
Do you mind if I use this? I was making it as a short intro for my YouTube videos.
Hey Xyphoe, it would make my day/week/month/year/life if you did a Subtera Puzlo video :)
Quote from: redbox on 09:31, 18 September 13
Hey Xyphoe, it would make my day/week/month/year/life if you did a Subtera Puzlo video :)
Ooh, what's that? Sorry I'm really out the loop at present!!! :-[
Quote from: Xyphoe on 02:07, 19 September 13
Ooh, what's that? Sorry I'm really out the loop at present!!! :-[
EgoTrip and I entered the game in the 16kb ROM Competition (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Amstrad_CPC_16KBs_ROM_Game_Development_Competition_2013).
Quote from: redbox on 07:26, 19 September 13
EgoTrip and I entered the game in the 16kb ROM Competition (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Amstrad_CPC_16KBs_ROM_Game_Development_Competition_2013).
Oh yes I heard about that and I think I saw some brief video clips!
Yea I need to get round to that, and one about that recent Zombie game that is awesome too!
I just need to get this damn 300th video special out the way. Keep procrastinating with it!
Quote from: Xyphoe on 07:28, 19 September 13
Oh yes I heard about that and I think I saw some brief video clips!
Yea I need to get round to that, and one about that recent Zombie game that is awesome too!
I just need to get this damn 300th video special out the way. Keep procrastinating with it!
Ah, good luck with the 300th video!
Your videos were in part what inspired me to do more coding because I watched them to look at techniques etc and really enjoyed them.
So to see one for my first CPC game would be awesome :)
Quote from: Xyphoe on 08:40, 18 September 13
Thanks! :)
And what else do you think could be improved upon specifically?
Well, make it more like an 8 bit cover and not just an 8 bit recreation of the song. More arpeggios, effects, adding the drum rolls, etc etc. :)