Symbiface mouse support ported to other apps.

[CraigsBar]

Hi all,


Does anyone know if any of the following apps have been, or could be patched to use the Symbiface Mouse port.


1. OCP Advanced Art Studio
2. Route Planner
3. AMX Art / Stop Press
4. PowerPage 128


I am sure that there is other software that would benefit from the more modern mouse interface but those are the ones I can think of.


I am not sure how feasible any of these would be as I am certainly not a coder. Just a thought.


Regards


Craig

[Bryce]

All those programs used the AMX standard which reads the joystick port. They all work with my USB / PS/2 Mouse adapter: PS2Mouse - CPCWiki but they would need a patch or driver to read the values from the address that the SymbiFace uses. This may work on some of the programs, but RAM space might be an issue if there's no room for a driver. Also, the AMX mouse supported 3 buttons and all 3 were used by some programs. I'm not sure how many buttons the SymbiFace solution supported.

Other programs that weren't specifically made for amouse may still work with an AMX mouse if they were made to use a Joystick.

Bryce.

[CraigsBar]

Hey Bryce,


That is pretty much what I figured... It's nice to dream tho.


Regards


Craig

[MacDeath]

@Bryce :

Do you still sell your USB to AMX mouse adapters ?

[Bryce]

I don't have any at the moment. If enough people were interested I might make a new batch though.

Bryce.

[Prodatron]

TBH the AMX standard reacts quite clunky compared to the SYMBiFACE II PS/2 mouse because of the limitations of the joystick port.

Also, the AMX mouse supported 3 buttons and all 3 were used by some programs. I'm not sure how many buttons the SymbiFace solution supported.

It supports 5 buttons and 1 scroll wheel: SYMBiFACE II:PS/2 mouse - CPCWiki
Would be cool to have a support in these applications. The additional routines should require about 150-200 bytes I guess.

CU,
Prodatron

[Bryce]

The AMX is clunky in some software and not so bad in others. Due to the fact that the hardware is limited to the constraints of the joystick port means that any improvements to its feel have to happen in software.
Obviously the SymbiFace mouse can offer a better feel, but compatibility was my goal.

Bryce.

[CraigsBar]

Damn I just thought of another piece of software that would really benefit from symbiface mouse support......

DES yes I bought the ROM version. And whilst isn't as polished as symbols it is a handy little wimp GUI.

The disc archiver tool is very good.

Craig.

[MacDeath]

The main issue is that this symbiface mouse standard is only available with the symbiface... which many of us don't have.

Perhaps it would be cool if emerging cards productions would include it as well so it would become a de-facto modern "standard".

Would TotO be interested in implementing it on something that could plug into the MotherX4 ?
Is Symbiface mouse expensive or difficult to put on a card ?

do you keep your blueprint top-secret level secret or would you share the tech with others ?

also I still think it is a shame that no USB mouse to Analog port adapter do exist for the PLUS.
This plug has a lot of potential and a +5V.
this could be a nice way to have mouse on the PLUS without using other ports that may be otherwise used a lot...
An USB mouse/joypad adapter using the Analog port could be a great thing...

also can this Analog port be added to old CPCs to, then ?

[Bryce]

The AMX standard is fine if the software is done properly and it's supported by the old software too. My USB AMX Mouse adapter will work on a Plus too. As for implementing the SymbiFace mouse in other hardware, it shouldn't be a problem, it would be the same hardware as my AMX mouse but with an address decoder added.

Bryce.

[TFM]

Aside of the SF2 proportional mouse there is also another proportional mouse (was is Gerdes of CPC Mousepack?).


Well made software is supposed to support ALL available hardware solutions. I think that the user can not be expected to buy three kinds of mouses or whatever just to be able to use all software. So older software needs to be upgraded!


Look at Symbos, it runs with AMX mouse / joystick and also the PS2 mouse. Same for FutureOS.

[Prodatron]

The Gerdes Mouse/CPC Mouse Pack had a "Joystick compatible" mode (you had to hold down a mouse key when power on your system). It had also an own mode for a better proportional handling, as the Joystick compatible mode is a little bit clunky

[CraigsBar]

also I still think it is a shame that no USB mouse to Analog port adapter do exist for the PLUS.
This plug has a lot of potential and a +5V.
this could be a nice way to have mouse on the PLUS without using other ports that may be otherwise used a lot...
An USB mouse/joypad adapter using the Analog port could be a great thing...

also can this Analog port be added to old CPCs to, then ?

Before I had my Symbiface I modded my CPC 464 Datel Genius mouse to be powered from the +5v on the Analog port, as the only thing it took from the expansion was the power and ground this removed the need for the Plus edge connector and meant I could hide the 464 expansion mouse pack out of the way. It worked well enough (but only with 2 buttons so no real AMX compatibility) until the mouse itself died. Not the most technologically advanced use of the Analog port I am sure, but it worked for me.


Craig

[CraigsBar]

I don't have any at the moment. If enough people were interested I might make a new batch though.

Bryce.

I'd be interested since the Symbiface option seems to be going nowhere (for now) and even if it does pick up I'll still have a CPC (or 2) without symbifaces


Craig

[TFM]

The Gerdes Mouse/CPC Mouse Pack had a "Joystick compatible" mode (you had to hold down a mouse key when power on your system). It had also an own mode for a better proportional handling, as the Joystick compatible mode is a little bit clunky

Yes. Right. That's like I remember it too. But you know since the SF2...  ... well, not using the other stuff very often. 

I'd be interested since the Symbiface option seems to be going nowhere (for now) and even if it does pick up I'll still have a CPC (or 2) without symbifacesCraig

Well, as Prodatron told the SF2-mouse code is quite short, it should fit into already existing software. If someone wants to patch software, we can help of course. Also the CPC-Wiki has example code.

About OCP, some French sceners did already a disassembly, so in this case it should be easy.

Sadly I don't have time to patch all that stuff by myself at the moment.

Oh and btw. Nilquader patched Arkanoid for the SF2 mouse. 

[Munchausen]

I haven't used it with much software but the SF2 mouse does seem to work much better than my PS/2 -> joystick adapter, but I have the joystick one for software that needs it (I like to keep all bases covered )

[Bryce]

The SF one will always be smoother than the AMX solution (whether my USB version or the original). The AMX monitors mouse movement and translates it into joystick movements, ie: each direction is either on or off. You can vary the feel of the mouse by either varying how often you probe the mouse port, or varying how much physical mouse movement triggers an "on", but that's it. The SF mouse sends values of how much the mouse was moved in each direction, so it gives a much more "PC mouse" feel. This isn't possible through the joystick port.

Bryce.

[Prodatron]

That's what I said: The joystick compatibility unfortunately is the reason, why it's so clunky 

[CraigsBar]

Oh and btw. Nilquader patched Arkanoid for the SF2 mouse. 

Yep I know and it is right up there with Cyber Chicken on my favourite software list. 


Craig