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SymbOS 3.1 released

Started by Prodatron, 23:32, 30 December 21

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McArti0

#125
@Prodatron
How large a DSK file can SymbOS recognize and use?
I tried to create SS80 in WinAPE, format it as Amsdos 360 or IBM 320 but SymCommander saw only 179kB.
CPC 6128, Whole 6128 and Only 6128, with .....
NewPAL v3 for use all 128kB RAM by CRTC as VRAM
TYPICAL :) TV Funai 22FL532/10 with VGA-RGB-in.

Prodatron

Cześć McArti, SymbOS supports the Standard CP/M Formats for the CPC and PCW (Data, system and PCW SD). As the memory is limited for the File Manager Module and FAT allows to support any floppy (even 2,8mb) and harddisc sizes (2tb), there are currently no plans to support any additional CP/m Like Formats as this would require additional memory for the Code. As Long as there are No concepts for extending the File Manager Module to additional memory this wont Change 

GRAPHICAL Z80 MULTITASKING OPERATING SYSTEM

McArti0

@Prodatron.
So what should I do with a DSK formatted on e.g. SS80 or DS80 to have FAT on it?
CPC 6128, Whole 6128 and Only 6128, with .....
NewPAL v3 for use all 128kB RAM by CRTC as VRAM
TYPICAL :) TV Funai 22FL532/10 with VGA-RGB-in.

GUNHED

Quote from: Prodatron on 19:03, 05 July 24Cześć McArti, SymbOS supports the Standard CP/M Formats for the CPC and PCW (Data, system and PCW SD). As the memory is limited for the File Manager Module and FAT allows to support any floppy (even 2,8mb) and harddisc sizes (2tb), there are currently no plans to support any additional CP/m Like Formats as this would require additional memory for the Code. As Long as there are No concepts for extending the File Manager Module to additional memory this wont Change
Can you please show us the 2,8MB floppy disc being used by symbos?
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2023.11.30)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.12.26)

HAL6128

Quote from: McArti0 on 20:08, 05 July 24@Prodatron.
So what should I do with a DSK formatted on e.g. SS80 or DS80 to have FAT on it?
Maybe the HxC Floppy Emulator application can manipulate DSK files in that way?
...proudly supported Schnapps Demo, Pentomino and NQ-Music-Disc with GFX

McArti0

More like CPC program formats disks as FAT. Discology? It would be best if SymbOS had a format command. Or Prodatron put an empty large DSK FAT disk here.
CPC 6128, Whole 6128 and Only 6128, with .....
NewPAL v3 for use all 128kB RAM by CRTC as VRAM
TYPICAL :) TV Funai 22FL532/10 with VGA-RGB-in.

HAL6128

With Linux you can create an empty FAT12-Image (720k):
1. dd if=/dev/zero of=floppy.dsk bs=512 count=1440
2. mkfs.vfat -F12 floppy.dsk

...proudly supported Schnapps Demo, Pentomino and NQ-Music-Disc with GFX

McArti0

Quote from: HAL6128 on 17:49, 09 July 24With Linux you can create an empty FAT12-Image (720k):
But it is IMG raw format. It's not DSK format file yet.
CPC 6128, Whole 6128 and Only 6128, with .....
NewPAL v3 for use all 128kB RAM by CRTC as VRAM
TYPICAL :) TV Funai 22FL532/10 with VGA-RGB-in.

GUNHED

DSK-CPC can copy to / from 720 KB DOS format (in runs on CPC!).
And there is of course (on CPC) DOS-COPY too.
One of them could be able to format a disc (but I don't remember exactly).
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2023.11.30)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.12.26)

HAL6128

Quote from: McArti0 on 18:17, 09 July 24
Quote from: HAL6128 on 17:49, 09 July 24With Linux you can create an empty FAT12-Image (720k):
But it is IMG raw format. It's not DSK format file yet.
Quote from: McArti0 on 18:17, 09 July 24
Quote from: HAL6128 on 17:49, 09 July 24With Linux you can create an empty FAT12-Image (720k):
But it is IMG raw format. It's not DSK format file yet.
try a cumbersome and dirty hack and copy all the hex figures from the raw image (open it with WinHex) into the WinApe Edit mode of the disc (bootsec, fat tables, root dir). just kidding.
BoonyDos has also Fat12 support , maybe a Format command included?
...proudly supported Schnapps Demo, Pentomino and NQ-Music-Disc with GFX

McArti0

Ok. make handy BDB in IBM DS80 DSK by HEX_Editor.

CPC 6128, Whole 6128 and Only 6128, with .....
NewPAL v3 for use all 128kB RAM by CRTC as VRAM
TYPICAL :) TV Funai 22FL532/10 with VGA-RGB-in.

McArti0

Quote from: HAL6128 on 22:11, 09 July 24try a cumbersome and dirty hack and copy all the hex figures from the raw image (open it with WinHex) into the WinApe Edit mode of the disc (bootsec, fat tables, root dir). just kidding
This is exactly what I did. I have paper DOS 5.0 documentation, so I filled the BDB table with ~60 bytes

By filling E5, DSK thought it was full, so I reset the first FAT and it worked. I have 625kB with directories on DSK. Tomorrow I will check if it works with Gotek.
CPC 6128, Whole 6128 and Only 6128, with .....
NewPAL v3 for use all 128kB RAM by CRTC as VRAM
TYPICAL :) TV Funai 22FL532/10 with VGA-RGB-in.

Prodatron

Nice compilation! Many years ago someone was posting here a DSK image of a 360K FAT12 disc dump (see attachement).
Your format is a little bit special, as it has only 8 sectors/track, so it has the special size of 640K.
Was that an original IBM format for FAT discs? (not listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk#Sizes,_performance_and_capacity )
Anyway as you can see, thanks to FAT(12) you can read any stuff, doesn't matter how many sectors/tracks/sides, as long as the hardware can access it. On the Enterprise 64/128 they are still using FAT12 for accessing "large" partitions on SD cards.

GRAPHICAL Z80 MULTITASKING OPERATING SYSTEM

McArti0

The CPC firmware natively supports the 8s40t1h format where sectors are counted from 1 to 8. It is called IBM SS40. Amsdos sees it as 154kB and respects sector 0.
I will try to make a disk that boots symbos from amsdos and is large.
CPC 6128, Whole 6128 and Only 6128, with .....
NewPAL v3 for use all 128kB RAM by CRTC as VRAM
TYPICAL :) TV Funai 22FL532/10 with VGA-RGB-in.

Prodatron

You want to mix CP/M and FAT12 filesystems on one disc?
IIRC the "IBM format" (8 sectors/track, sector offset #00) for CP/M style discs don't have a system track, so it would try to read the directory starting from the sector at LBA 0. But at this place there is the boot sector of a FAT disc. But probably I didn't get your idea.

GRAPHICAL Z80 MULTITASKING OPERATING SYSTEM

McArti0

Quote from: Prodatron on 16:07, 10 July 24, so it would try to read the directory starting from the sector at LBA 0. But at this place there is the boot sector of a FAT disc. But probably I didn't get your idea.
Amsdos on disk IBM It skips the entire track 0. The directory is on track 1. Amsdos knows something about IBM 8spt.
CPC 6128, Whole 6128 and Only 6128, with .....
NewPAL v3 for use all 128kB RAM by CRTC as VRAM
TYPICAL :) TV Funai 22FL532/10 with VGA-RGB-in.

Prodatron

Quote from: McArti0 on 16:25, 10 July 24
Quote from: Prodatron on 16:07, 10 July 24, so it would try to read the directory starting from the sector at LBA 0. But at this place there is the boot sector of a FAT disc. But probably I didn't get your idea.
Amsdos on disk IBM It skips the entire track 0. The directory is on track 1. Amsdos knows something about IBM 8spt.
Oh yes, now I remembers! Cool! That makes it possible to have a hybrid disc with both Filesystem!

GRAPHICAL Z80 MULTITASKING OPERATING SYSTEM

McArti0

SymbOS 4.beta 240617 on IBM DS80 DSK botable from AMSDOS RUN"SYM  and LARGE 518kB FAT12 system.

Files SYM. and SYMBOS.BIN are on AMSDOS format. The remaining files are on FAT12 format from sector E8. track29 sec01.

ps. now I will look for how to make DSK 160 tracks and whether the D765 will not choke.
CPC 6128, Whole 6128 and Only 6128, with .....
NewPAL v3 for use all 128kB RAM by CRTC as VRAM
TYPICAL :) TV Funai 22FL532/10 with VGA-RGB-in.

Prodatron

Wow, this is really cool! I never had in mind that this is possible! I guess this is the first time, that someone managed to mix both CP/M and FAT filesystems on the same floppy disc? Thanks so much, McArti0!

GRAPHICAL Z80 MULTITASKING OPERATING SYSTEM

Prodatron

It just works!  :o Checking the same disc in Amsdos and SymbOS.
Now I really wonder, if they introduced the "IBM" cp/m format for exactly this?

You cannot view this attachment.You cannot view this attachment.

(and to continue this thought, why did they ignored the IBM format for the PCW later, which has sector offset #00 as well)

GRAPHICAL Z80 MULTITASKING OPERATING SYSTEM

McArti0

DSKA99_SymbOS_4b-ams+FAT_8s2h99t.dsk   = bootable 670kB FAT12 working with real GOTEK.

DSKA99_SymbOS_4b-ams+FAT_8s2h102t.dsk = bootable 694kB FAT12 only for some emulators.

Both DSK working on CaPriCe Forever 64.

WinAPE has limit 2*80 tracks and NOT working with both DSK.


ps. @Prodatron Have you support IBM 9sec format?
CPC 6128, Whole 6128 and Only 6128, with .....
NewPAL v3 for use all 128kB RAM by CRTC as VRAM
TYPICAL :) TV Funai 22FL532/10 with VGA-RGB-in.

retro space

I was curious, but could not find any info: how does symbos compare to c64os?
Teaching computer science on a high school with the CPC, P2000T, Spectrum and C64.

McArti0

DSKA100_FAT12 880kB_9s2h99t.dsk -  empty DSK 880kB FAT12
CPC 6128, Whole 6128 and Only 6128, with .....
NewPAL v3 for use all 128kB RAM by CRTC as VRAM
TYPICAL :) TV Funai 22FL532/10 with VGA-RGB-in.

Prodatron

#148
Quote from: retro space on 21:31, 27 July 24I was curious, but could not find any info: how does symbos compare to c64os?
Not very good :D

- "C64OS" (the name is very creative btw) doesn't work on an original naked machine from the 80ies but requires additional modern hardware (SD card stuff or something like this)
- its GUI is textbased only
- doesn't support (preemptive) multitasking
- is C64 only, no other platforms
- it's in a very early stage

And there are around 100 more points.

What I don't like is the ugliness of the GUI. It looks terrible blocky and clumsy. Yes, it's textmode, but if you want you can do very nice textmode GUIs for the C64, just see TEOS:

(see other videos in this channel as well)
This is so much more beautiful compared to "C64OS", and it even can do multitasking. Too bad, that 64jcl stopped working on TEOS.
Another question is, why do you need to use textmode to make a fast GUI on the C64?
On the Atari8bit you have A8GOS:

Multitasking, very beautiful Mac-like pixel-based GUI, VERY FAST, using the same CPU and same graphic capabilities (320x200x2).
And if you want to make the greatest looking GUI for the VIC2, see Clips64:
http://www.symbos.de/mirrors/www.clips64.de/pathfind.htm
Yes, the concept was for a SuperCPU, but the screen itself is just 8K, half of what the CPC has to do, so what's the problem for a C64?

GRAPHICAL Z80 MULTITASKING OPERATING SYSTEM

Prodatron

Quote from: McArti0 on 22:47, 27 July 24DSKA100_FAT12 880kB_9s2h99t.dsk -  empty DSK 880kB FAT12
Thanks a lot McArti0! I am now back home and will try it soon!

GRAPHICAL Z80 MULTITASKING OPERATING SYSTEM

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