Improve SOS article in CPC Wiki

[Gryzor]

Enough is enough, TFM... expressing your opinion is one thing, being offensive towards fellow members ("Listen to me son") is just crazy. As Ygdrazil said, you're ruining the whole CPC scene atmosphere with your crazy talk!!!

Now:

I created the surface of FutureOS in a time without Macintosh, without Windows or whatever. In this time the CPC scene was really open minded and cool.
In this time, everybody knows that FutureOS has a graphical surface, even if nearly nobody calls it a GUI, the abbreviation was not commen known.

Er... so? Btw, maybe the term GUI was not common back then, but certainly the term WIMP had already existed for ages. And, again, your OS does not meet the criterion.

And you really can't talk about a console. Consoles are slow, therefore no console will be used in FutureOS. Ok, sometimes you have to enter filenames, that's all.

Again: so? Who did talk about a console?

By the way, you can use all menues with the joystick f.e. you don't need the keyboard.

It's getting boring, but: SO???

The graphical user interface of FutureOS (the mouse pointer is enough to make it graphical, because you DON'T use the keyboard)

Ok, here is where you show all your ignorance: since when does a mouse pointer make a UI graphical??? That's a first!!! Because you don't use a keyboard? That's totally irrelevant! So if I had a console-only OS that is controlled by voice, does this make it graphical? Geez...

Therefore it is constructed and it works fast. That's just what it shall do.

Exactly, that's what it will do. No graphical stuff, just fast FS operations.

Yes, also the window in which the files are shown is fixed in size. Even if you don't call it window (for some reasons you will surely find fast...) it makes the system fast and effective. Again it look similar on every CPC, an advantage if you be honest

Er... did I say it's not an advantage, or that it's not fast or anything? Can you please stop pulling crap out of thin air?

And FutureOS (still) just has a graphical user interface, all the WIMP stuff was developped later. So your young guys want to know what is right or wrong, but you don't know nothing about where things have come from.

Hahaha! Man, the fact that WIMP was developed later, as you are saying, does not mean a thing. Maybe FutureOS could pass as a GUI twenty years ago, but it certainly cannot now. But, what the heck are you ranting about? You're saying that those features that we still use in the dominant GUI-bases OSes today did not exist when you started coding FutureOS? Maybe this shows how YOU don't know NOTHING about the history of computer OSes and human interaction... Heck, can I suggest something? Maybe take a look at DES

You and Gryzor behave like students in the first semester. You know it all. But wait some years, wisdome will also come to you, but seemingly very slow.

If wisdom is the thing you think it is, then let it never come. I can never accept as a scientist someone who knowingly accept a flawed methodology instead of trying to find a new one...

And about teaching, Gryzor starts to try to teach me again and again in english. You don't read it? Why?

Ahem. Man, can you please go back a few posts and find your post where you started teaching me english?

You jump in this discussion and troll aginst me. You choose your side clear. Yes, you're probably an second identity.

Obviously, you don't even know the meaning of 'trolling'. And, Ygdrazil a second identity? You're probably completely out of touch with current CPC scene members... But, it's so obvious, as others who know you have told me, that you just can't stand opinions different to yours...

We could finish all this discussions very peacefully. Just let it be a GUI in the FutureOS article (what it actually is) and I will accept yours all other opinions and changes and what ever you want.
So if you want to end it, just revert the FutureOS article to the uncrippled form, that means change UI to GUI. Then I will be more than pleased. That's my idea for an compromise, now it's on you!

Just because you keep repeating (mainly to yourself) that the article is 'crippled' does not make it so. Even if you disagree with the current content, it's obvious that you ignore the meaning of the word...

I will change it now. Go read it in a few minutes...

Oh, and you've been warned: continue insulting members and you get banned from here as well.

Cheers
Gryzor

PS By the way, nice job bringing my Karma down

[Gryzor]

[totally whacko messages deleted]

Also: I just saw (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Talk:FutureSoft) that TFM added other members to his team without them being aware of being members in it... Go figure.

[TFM]

[totally whacko messages deleted]

Also: I just saw (http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Talk:FutureSoft) that TFM added other members to his team without them being aware of being members in it... Go figure.

At the meeting in Erlangen 2008 Nilquader told me that he is in no group, I offered him to join FutureSoft. Kangaroo was also asked to join, because he had composed some songs for the now cancelled Giana-Sisters-Clone. So he was also able to join FutureSoft. Now he seems to have changed his mind. May he doesn't remember, maybe he prefers to be in the group Spring alone with Nilquader. I don't know that for sure.

But I'm sure that you Gryzor will now start the next hate-campaign aginst me.

TFM still member of FS

[TFM]

[totally whacko messages deleted]

It just shows your true face, if you delete a message from me, that could explain my POV. A message without the, by other users so often used, defamations. There was no reason to delete my message.

Since you deleted it I provide here one point again: You managed finally to bring me that far, that I will quit the CPC scene and I stop all activities for it. ThanXXX Gryzor! All these guys out there will now applaud that this ashole (me!) now disappears. Good work!

If you delete this message again, then I will post it in the FutureOS list, this reaches 150 people.

[Gryzor]

At the meeting in Erlangen 2008 Nilquader told me that he is in no group, I offered him to join FutureSoft. Kangaroo was also asked to join, because he had composed some songs for the now cancelled Giana-Sisters-Clone. So he was also able to join FutureSoft. Now he seems to have changed his mind. May he doesn't remember, maybe he prefers to be in the group Spring alone with Nilquader. I don't know that for sure.

So, I get it, everybody else is crazy and you're the only sane man around. Everybody's lying, and you're the only one telling the truth.

But I'm sure that you Gryzor will now start the next hate-campaign aginst me.

...and, everyone's out to get you. You do realize there's a term in psychology for this, don't you?

If you delete this message again, then I will post it in the FutureOS list, this reaches 150 people.

Pffft see if I care.

It just shows your true face, if you delete a message from me, that could explain my POV. A message without the, by other users so often used, defamations. There was no reason to delete my message.

No reason to delete your messages? Ah, apart from the fact that they were merely and plainly insulting:

Hey Gryzzor are you now totally crazy This Ygrazil defamed me and you tell me I would insult him?? Have you lost all contact to this world now?

p.s.: Have a look at my Karma.

Man, cool down, I will be there for a serious discussion, but it not makes any sense this way.

p.p.s: 'Listen to my son' is here in New Orleans a commen friendly sentence. Stop telling me that you know it better. Live here in USA, afterwards you can try to tell that YOU ALL know better than me. I don't care. I take myself not so important.

and

Now Gryzor, you have really gone crazy. To introduce a sos advertisment in the FutureOS article is really primitive.

Ok, to make the final cut here. You, pdt, and some other guys can't stand me, because I'm not such a soft washed guy. Have your childish 'big brother like' party alone. I quit now. Such a scene I don't want. Nearly finished programs like 'Giana' will never be released. Do what you want, and if you delete all FutureOS stuff - I don't care any longer. Congratulations, you beat one out of the scene. Good bye, TFM

[/font]

So, you still think you can talk like that. Well, just goes to show what kind of person you are, I suppose.

[Ygdrazil]

Hi TFM

I don't know if you are doing it on purpose or not! But you are simply overreacting. From what I can read there is no "hate squad" hunting you. I was not defaming you. I was merely expressing my concern about the tone in this thread. And finally I was expressing my doubt that FutureOS would qualify as having a GUI at the present moment in time: 2008.

You are right in stating that things might be different if the debate was taking place 20 years ago. But since then the term GUI has been much more clearly defined and a lot of research has been carried out in this field. As for the article about FutureOS in the CPCWIKI, I think its reasonable to assume that the articles on projects must reflect the current(or most currunt) state. In my oppinion lacking a GUI as we know from Windows etc. is not necessarily a bad thing. There can be numerous reasons where a console would be more efficient than Icons etc. I personally still prefere some console based apps, as I can express a lot more actions with a relative simple syntax than using simple icon clicks. Whether a GUI is better than a console really depends on the targetgroup! My girlfriend gets that empty look in her eyes when she encounters a console, but she loves icons and windows with funny faces  ;-)

I personally think that the FutureOS project is a very impressive project and that it captures very much the essence of retrocomputing. Even after almost 20 years the CPC tries to deny the fact thats it has only a 8 bit CPU etc. Its no less impressive that you TFM keep supporting FutureOS after all that time. Therefore its not supprising that you fell a great deal of ownership of FutureOS. But you cannot have ownership of the article in the cpcwiki about futureOS like its your own personal project. In a wiki you collaborate with other likeminded to a common understanding of the subject. Please consider the benefits: A wiki article can breath new life into a project by adding new points of wievs. Consider it as a source of inspiration! - A good thing I think!

Are you sure that the GUI in FutureOS was before the other GUIs of that era... Isn't FutureOS from 1989? A time where MACs, Atari STs, Amigas and even the Commodore 64(GEOS) had GUIs. (All the mentioned GUIs was WIMPs) I think it would be fair to write that FutureOS was the first OS that attempted to implement a build in GUI.
 
I will ignore your "listen son", as this comment is out of line. I have been living in an English speaking country to, and I know that you don't start a sentence like that to a person you hardly know, without wanting to be considered rude. I don't know how things are in the United States. But its wrong to assume the people you communicate with in a forum, knows and acknowledges local customs.

Merry X-MAX to all CPC freaks around the world!

Hope that the upcoming year will hold even more happy CPC experiences for everyone!

Regards,
Ygdrazil

PS. A special X-max greetings goes to FutureOS!

[Gryzor]

Dear Ygrazil,
 
Thank you for your calm post and response, I really appreciate it and it's what is needed and missing... Of course, me thanking you will probably make TFM argue that we're in league together, or that you're a second account of mine and so on, but oh well, you can't please everybody.
 
My main grief is indeed the problem that all this is causing to the scene. I've never seen a scene fight in the CPC scene before, and certainly I have never had such issues in CPCWiki. And if TFM discontinues the project it's really bad. But, as I've said elsewhere (CPCZone), the fact that someone is contributing to the scene with some project does not mean that all reviews must be positive. But then again - the crazy thing is, I never said that FutureOS is not good!
 
On the WIMP vs Console UIs: I, too, would really love to see a super-charged console front-end with a fantastic interpreter - have you seen Microsoft's latest command prompt interpretation? Something like that. That will be able to allow complex scripting, have type-ahead, enable virtual consoles and such cool stuff. So a console UI is not all too bad... So I don't know why TFM insists on calling it a GUI, especially after deriding SymbOS for its fancy interface. It's really weird.
 
And, of course, there were many graphical OSes before FutureOS; this is so absurd to consider that I don't think that TFM meant it that way - but he didn't elaborate either.
 
About the "listen, son": I've lived and studied in the UK, and I have American friends. I have British and American colleagues and I have been writing much more in English than I do in Greek, for the past 8 years or so. I've never seen this expression being used casually. It's always used in a paternalistic, wise-ass manner. Maybe down in the bayou some old man may say it to you and of course it'll be ok, but otherwise it's really derogatory. Just because you heard an expression being spoken does not mean you also grasped its meaning or that you can use it as you please. This is a very common mistake that newcomers to a language do, and it does not -of course- give the right to TFM to try and 'teach me' once more.
 
Ah well... I hope we've seen the end of it (the fight I mean). I hope that FutureOS continues to be developed, but not at the expense of the CPCWiki.
 
Cheers
Gryzor
 
PS Everybody have fun tonight, try not to eat or drink TOO much!

[TFM]

...GUI...

Hi Ygdrazil,

You wrote a very long Email. And I will not comment it in all details, because I think that you're right in most of the points you mentioned. Lets say 99.7%.
And it takes really some inner bigness to be able to do so. Take it as a compliment.

However, here in New Orleans, the people open a conversation very often with "Listen to me son', it sounds familiar here. And nobody thinks bad about it. Gryzor for sure will now teach me wrong, but this answer goes especially to you Ygdrazil. So please forget about my wrong choosen words and I ignore the narrowmindet scientist 

Another thing. As I lived in germany a part of me also was trying to press everything in a form. Now, here in New Orleans I really see the world in a different light. If you don't do so, you just can't survive here....   .... that leads to  .... the gui again .....

There is not one perfect definition of GUI. Why can't these guys not accept that there are other people with other POVs. This discussion is going in only one direction, Gryzor wants to be right.

In my opinion there are different ways to tell what a GUI is. It's really narroweyed to look only at one definition. Whats about the variety?

However, I quit, have a good X-Mas and fun with the CPC for ages.

TFM / FS.

[Prodatron]

Listen to me son,

Just to be sure, I asked my american contacts (my business partners, my brother), and yes, in this context of course it is an insulting phrase. So please, TFM, stop talking lies about this phrase "how it is used in New Orleans" (LOL!), which is absolutely untrue, so what's about offering an excuse to Ygdrazil?
Would be also nice to offer an excuse to him for your brazen statement, that Ygdrazil would be another fake account (is this always your way to defame someone?). With so many thousands of contributions, Ygdrazil is one of the biggest participator and supporter of the CPC-Wiki at all, so it's unbelieveable to read this from you. So... is it really true, that you have no idea about the CPC scene at all?

And FutureOS (still) just has a graphical user interface, all the WIMP stuff was developped later.

Another lie. The first real GUI/WIMP was developed and presented already in the 70ies (which was already 1000times more featured than yours 15-20years later Fos UI). Maybe not with the Apple Lisa (1983), but later with the first Macintosh, the Atari ST (GEM), the Amiga (Workbench) and even the C64 (GEOS), GUIs were well known to the wide public already in the middle of the 80ies. Maybe you were sleeping at this time?

You and Gryzor behave like students in the first semester. You know it all. But wait some years, wisdome will also come to you, but seemingly very slow.

Crazy to hear this other insult from your side. Regarding "first semester" I never knew anyone else, who needed more than 15years for finishing... ok, I better stop here Regarding "becoming wise": You still behave like a kindergarden child, if it's about your FOS. You are always telling, that you started it end of the 80ies. Beside the fact, that it's such a crazy long time for finishing a program like Fos, it's also crazy that you still think, it's the most perfect thing in the world, so that NO-ONE IS ALLOWED to comment it in any way. Only you, the "god" of your fos-program, should talk about it. Why did you NEVER develop YOURSELF during all these many years?

May its better you let me change it...

No, thanks, the result is always the same

And you really can't talk about a console. Consoles are slow

You have not even an idea about USING operating systems, have you? In many cases consoles are even faster than GUIs, if you KNOW how to use them. You already compared your Fos with Linux (which is somehow a big joke, because there is NOT EVEN ONE commonness between Linux and your program), but you have no idea about Linux, consoles etc. in any way.

By the way, you can use all menues with the joystick f.e. you don't need the keyboard.

What a pity... The lack of keyboard-shortcuts and the slow joystick-mousepointer makes your Fos-interface to one of the slowest on CPC. In combination with your typical Fos-advertisement "the fastest revolutionary ULTRA-os", this is quite funny

And it shall look similar at every FutureOS CPC. So you don't have to search for your icons like when working with an different PC.
Yes, also the window in which the files are shown is fixed in size. Even if you don't call it window (for some reasons you will surely find fast...) it makes the system fast and effective. Again it look similar on every CPC, an advantage if you be honest.

Here we have again this funny but also boring TFM argumentation: Beeing proud of missing features! (we had this with the missing IRQ handling before already ). This time it's for the "icons": If it's not possible to customize the frontend, a program like Fos looks the same on every computer. Wow, that's fantastic! I don't hope, Microsoft does the same for its next Windows release. Ah, but then I can use every PC because the icons on the desktop are always exactly the same. What a nightmare...

Bye the way... @pdt: The sense of the second register set is to provide a possibility to use a kind of a parallel processor inside the Z80 and NOT to be forced to use the PUSH / POP commands. You still treat the Z80 like the 8080

Oh, really? Great information! "parallel processor": What are you thinking what I am doing inside the multitasking kernel of SymbOS? Erm, you know, what multitasking is? Amongst other things there are parallel tasks running at the same time (virtually).
But let's stop to run riot. Beside of beeing used in some very optimized routines (can still be used in ANY [!!] environment; example: SymAmp), the second register set was introduced for supporting a better interrupt handling. Multitasking is somehow a very improved version of interrupt handling, so it has similiar requirements to it, including the second register set.
Ah, and NO, I don't use the Zilog Z80 like the Intel 8080. It would be more or less impossible to implement SymbOS on the 8080! I am surprised, that you are not familiar with the limitations of this older CPU...?!

At the meeting in Erlangen 2008 Nilquader told me that he is in no group, I offered him to join FutureSoft. Kangaroo was also asked to join, because he had composed some songs for the now cancelled Giana-Sisters-Clone. So he was also able to join FutureSoft. Now he seems to have changed his mind.

You did similar with Dr.Zed in the past. These people never agreed to join your group. Sorry, but when I see this behaviour combined with your pushing behaviour regarding Fos, it's already worrying...

You managed finally to bring me that far, that I will quit the CPC scene and I stop all activities for it. ThanXXX Gryzor! All these guys out there will now applaud that this ashole (me!) now disappears. Good work!

I wonder, what will be better. To have peace - or to have someone here, who is always producing conflicts, lies and hoax messages, instead of beeing really productive. Last thing is quite unattractive IMHO.

If you delete this message again, then I will post it in the FutureOS list, this reaches 150 people.

Yeah, blackmail us! Or do this stupid posts, which you already did for me, again!! I am already shaking in my shoes... During the last days I am more and more disappointed and shocked about your person.

Bye,
Prodatron

[kangaroo]

If someone want to know my opinion about that.. just listen to: http://blog.kangaroo.cmo.de/?p=4511

[Gryzor]

Hohoho! A podcast?

[EDIT] HAAAAAHAHAHAHA! That's fantastic!!! I mean, pure genious! "I show you the mirror" and "listen to me son" could well be the next net-memes! Gonna download and keep it!!! Someone really should make a vid...[/EDIT]

@TFM: you *have* to agree this is funny as hell

[Ygdrazil]

heh...

I am speechless ...

Great stuff a must go on my IPod!

/Ygdrazil

PS. I newer quite understood the "I show you the mirror" argument anyway :-o

PSS. Must be the first CPC OS thread that have sparkled a podcast.

Hohoho! A podcast?

[EDIT] HAAAAAHAHAHAHA! That's fantastic!!! I mean, pure genious! "I show you the mirror" and "listen to me son" could well be the next net-memes! Gonna download and keep it!!! Someone really should make a vid...[/EDIT]

@TFM: you *have* to agree this is funny as hell

[Gryzor]

By the way, what software did you use for the text-to-speech converstion?

[kangaroo]

Its just the "say" Command from Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) from the terminal console :-)

[Gryzor]

Wow, the results are great... Had no idea. Reminds me of Pink Floyd's use of Stephen Hawking's voice...

[kangaroo]

PS. I newer quite understood the "I show you the mirror" argument anyway :-o

"I show you the mirror" is the One2One-translated german phrase for "Take a look at yourself!" To "show someone the mirror" shall help the other to see his own false reacting in the mirror, so he can learn from his own acting by viewing himself. But TFM must be surrounded by mirrors :-)

[TFM]

"I show you the mirror" is the One2One-translated german phrase for "Take a look at yourself!" To "show someone the mirror" shall help the other to see his own false reacting in the mirror, so he can learn from his own acting by viewing himself. But TFM must be surrounded by mirrors :-)

Yes, right! And therefore I had learnt my lessons well, long time ago. If you like I can send you some mirrors, think you really could use them well ,-)))

[kangaroo]

Oh, i dont think that you shall give one of your mirrors away.. i am narcism myself enough!

[TFM]

@pdt: Please provide clear informations, that SOS is object-oriented. I can't see any oo features in SOS. Else the article has to be changed.


@All: What is OO? Have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming

Greets,
TFM / FS

[Prodatron]

Sure, good point.
The graphical user interface (Desktop Manager Module) of SymbOS is object "oriented" in two ways.

1.) The first step is the way how the windows are handled in general in the SymbOS desktop manager. In the past most of the non-text-based GUIs developed for the CPC where bitmap based. That means, that windows ("forms" as it is also called in MS windows) had to store the overlapped part of the screen or even their own content as a bitmap somewhere in memory byte-by-byte. This is quite resources-consuming as you can imagine, but that was the common way how GUIs where working.
The SymbOS desktop manager is not bitmap but object based. Everything on the screen is defined with objects (sometimes also called "controls" or "widgets"). Objects are the background graphic and icons of the "desktop" (which is nothing else than another frame-less window with its own objects) as well as the lists, checkboxes, buttons, textlines etc. of the visible (typical) windows. If a window, which did overlap a part of the screen, disappeares or moves to another place, there is no need to reload some saved bitmap-screendata form the memory; the SymbOS desktop manager is just repainting the hidden parts of the now again appearing objects. This would make it possible to run the Desktop Manager even on a small 64K system with dozens of opened windows
Because windows can hide each other in a very complex nested way, or can be placed half out of the visible screen area, fast pixel-based and clipping-enabled graphic output and a stack-based recursive screen-part redraw-methode is necessary here.
At the moment I don't know any other CPC gui, which is handling it in this consistent way.

2.) The second step is the way, how objects are handled and how they are behaving. This is "object oriented" similiar to the description in the article you found on Wikipedia today. First there is a "prototype" for all GUI object classes, which includes the following "properties"...:
- intXpos
- intYpos
- intXlen
- intYlen
...and "methodes":
- doPlot()
- doUpdate()
- doOnClick()
- doOnKey()
- doOnFocus()
- doOnBlur()
Each "class" (like buttons, frames, graphics, icons, drop down lists, text input lines and whatever) has its own specialized methodes deduced from these prototype methodes. Some have some more properties, some not. When defining a window you create several "objects" of these different classes as own "instances". The desktop manager is then checking the behaviour of the user and forwards the interactions to the objects. Depending on their methodes and properties they do acting in their special way. This is typical OOP stuff, quite nice to use for a GUI and even realizable in Z80 assembler.

Btw, thanx for your interest! It's cool, that I got the chance to explain it here

CU,
Prodatron

[TFM]

Sure, good point.
The graphical user interface (Desktop Manager Module) of SymbOS is object "oriented" in two ways.
<snip>
At the moment I don't know any other CPC gui, which is handling it in this consistent way.

What's about GENO, it did it in a very similar way like I remember. Nice GUI for CP/M by the way.

Btw, thanx for your interest! It's cool, that I got the chance to explain it here
CU,
Prodatron

No problem, I think much people have a common interest in these things. Good explainations, thank you. Well, maybe one should also mention that it's an advantage to use OOP when you like to port an os to different platforms, what has been done in this case.

cu. TFM / FS

[Ygdrazil]

Hi TFM

Please discuss changes before applying them to the SymbOS article.

Eg. Prodatron did not write that a stack is a prerequisite for multitasking. Instead he wrote:

While the MOS Technology 6502 can not move the stack, the Z80 can freely replace it to any position in the memory, which is more or less a condition for preemptive multitasking.

Notice the notion 'more or less' which makes good sense since the article mentionions GEOS as an inspiration for programming SymbOS. Allthough a movable stack is not necessary to implement a multitasking OS, or even a stack at a hardware level, historically most OSs introduce some sort of LIFO datastructure. Either at a hardware level or implemented in software (as you yourself points out, in an referral to the IBM OS) - and surely its lucky for us Z80 freaks that the Z80 CPU, has a stackpointer and a moveable one to :-) So I see no reason for this change in the SymbOS article at all!!!

Now to the change about MP/M, MMUs. It is correct that MP/M proved that an 8bit computer could do multitasking, but even though MP/M ran on systems based on 8080/Z80 the hardware requirements was more demanding and higher than later Z80 based homecomputer systems. The systems that ran MP/M like the MDS 800 (mentioned in the MP/M manual) had advanced bankswitching and external timing circuttry to handle multitasking. Thats the reason why no port of MP/M exists for any of the popular homecomputers of the 80s like (ZX Spectrum, MSX or Amstrad CPC). I have not been successfully in retrieving a single reference to MP/M running on a homecomputer even at gaby.de. If I am wrong please supply a link, as it would be rather interesting to se MP/M running on a plain homecomputer. Also i remember when I was a student at the university i was lectured that the presence of a MMU was as one of several minimum requirements for having a multitasking OS. Allthough the last statement can be debated I don't think its fair to change the SymbOS article in this respect...

Regards,
Ygdrazil

PS. Please explain what Crossfire technology is.. After all a WIKI should be enlightening not confuse with introducing new undefined terms!

[Gryzor]

Lovely photos. Other than that, I can't say I know the technical issues so I cannot contribute, but I think this is how discussions should be done... thanks for the post!

[Gryzor]

For those who happened to see a message that was subsequently deleted: TFM opened another account under a different name to post in his defense. No reason to have it that way...

The user (Algon) uses the same IP as TFM, has a futureos.de address and just *happened* to sign up and post just right after TFM started editing and posted again after a while.

What a coincidence!

[ukmarkh]

I can't stay silent any longer... FOS IMHO feels like a crippled early attempt at an 80's OS. If this is, as claimed a GUI based OS then it is quite frankly the worst of its type. TFM, I realise FOS has been in development for many years, but I think the first massive mistake came from not approaching the CPC community and asking them what they really needed from a CPC OS. Instead you've produced an OS that sits nicely in your head, but hasn't produced the kinda experience that end users i.e. the community as a whole want to use.

TFM, I'm not suggesting your OS isn't powerful... just that FOS might have stood a better chance, felt more convincing as an OS if you'd have stuck with a command line interface, rather than a badly designed GUI.

This is not an attack, but in my opinion valid and constructive criticism that other people seem to skip over.