Author Topic: Batman Forever  (Read 74136 times)

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Offline ssg

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #100 on: 01:57, 28 March 11 »
In an spiritual way you're right for sure ;D

(sorry for off topic but this is interesting) i totally hear you. i get a different sense of accomplishment out of developing utilities too. however i think we're fooling ourselves when we call upon the argument of usefulness. :) i bet the number of useless utilities are more than actually useful or at least usable ones, yet we can't keep ourselves from writing them.

utilities are our comfort zone because they rely on solid needs and requirements of people. that means the beginning of the path we need to walk is narrowed down and sketched out for us already. we start with ready-made guidelines, solid requirements. that makes the whole creation process much more compatible with analytical thinking of programming therefore more comfortable.

i think painters would get a smilar sense of comfort and accomplishment whenever they paint by looking at an existing view, person or thing.

demos on the other hand serve very vague -and as you put it very well- "spiritual" needs. such needs like "to be entertained" or "to be amazed" are harder to contain and to split into parts. our analytical approach fails on artistic creation and that's when we start to feel nervous.  like it's not hard enough, it's also got to be a teamwork! which almost changes all the rules of the game. now how can anyone blame us when we stay in our warm bed of utilities :)

but i think demos are also good just because of the same reasons: exercising imagination and teamwork.

Online Gryzor

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #101 on: 16:45, 28 March 11 »
^^^What he said.

Offline einoeL

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #102 on: 16:56, 28 March 11 »
Some users of the german "Forum64" wants to buy a CPC.
"Batman Forever" is the reason => death-bed repentance.

...more than 3500 video-invocations on YouTube by now!

Online Gryzor

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #103 on: 19:27, 28 March 11 »
Some users of the german "Forum64" wants to buy a CPC.


Really? Interesting! Any links?

Offline trocoloco

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #104 on: 19:50, 28 March 11 »
well spoken ssg! As he says, why people create music or paintings if   it's not practical?  because it's inspiring and that's human nature.

Offline einoeL

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Online Gryzor

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #106 on: 10:42, 29 March 11 »
Nice... :)

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #107 on: 08:51, 06 April 11 »
Hm! All the mirrors at Pouet.net are down! Anyone has all the versions so that we can host it on the wiki?

Offline Devilmarkus

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #108 on: 13:49, 06 April 11 »
Hm! All the mirrors at Pouet.net are down! Anyone has all the versions so that we can host it on the wiki?

You don't have them? tztztztzzz
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Online Gryzor

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #109 on: 16:45, 06 April 11 »
Nope, not all of them - only the double-sided version.

Offline Devilmarkus

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #110 on: 19:03, 06 April 11 »
« Last Edit: 19:07, 06 April 11 by Devilmarkus »
When you put your ear on a hot stove, you can smell how stupid you are ...

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Online Gryzor

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #111 on: 11:46, 07 April 11 »
*cough* forgot about that.

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #112 on: 15:08, 01 May 11 »
Just to tell that there is currently an interesting debate between Longshot and Rhino at CPCrulez... in English !

The Coder Clash !

http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4492&start=150



This is quite "violent" and many casualties are already reported.
Yet the Victor hasn't emerged yet... :laugh:



More seriously this is quite interesting because this may be a source for sweet technical informations for all of you coders.

Online Gryzor

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #113 on: 21:49, 01 May 11 »
I lost them halfway through :D

Offline TFM

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #114 on: 22:45, 01 May 11 »
More seriously this is quite interesting because this may be a source for sweet technical informations for all of you coders.

Pah! I put them both in my pockets!!! They can fight for 2. place. Now! Time for new Coder war here...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
... only joking. .... More seriously, I hope they get along. The real productive CPC scene is quite small!!!!!!!!!
 
 
 
Edit: Hey, that's worth reading. Longshot has analyzed the Batman demo (Thanks!) and he prooves what I did only guess after watching it the first time: Everything is precalculated... like using my good old Filmemacher. However, my judging is different: For me it depends what you can see on the screen. The way you manage it plays only second role.
 
« Last Edit: 22:54, 01 May 11 by TFM/FS »
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

Offline nurgle

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #115 on: 02:08, 02 May 11 »
Just got around watching the Demo (little spare time, plus my own tool dskwrite would'nt produce a working copy). This is the most amazing thing I have seen on a CPC in a long time. Cool! Now I have to adapt dskwrite again...  :P

Offline Rhino

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #116 on: 17:56, 02 May 11 »
Just to tell that there is currently an interesting debate between Longshot and Rhino at CPCrulez... in English !

The Coder Clash !

http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4492&start=150



This is quite "violent" and many casualties are already reported.
Yet the Victor hasn't emerged yet...



More seriously this is quite interesting because this may be a source for sweet technical informations for all of you coders.


hehe, how you like the violence!  8)
More seriously, I have no interest in having problems with anybody, but after a long hard work, I can not allow it to be falsely discredited.


Edit: Hey, that's worth reading. Longshot has analyzed the Batman demo (Thanks!) and he prooves what I did only guess after watching it the first time: Everything is precalculated...

What??!!!  :o I see that Longshot manipulation is working very well  >:( hehe


Offline MaV

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #117 on: 18:25, 02 May 11 »
Edit: Hey, that's worth reading. Longshot has analyzed the Batman demo (Thanks!) and he prooves what I did only guess after watching it the first time: Everything is precalculated...

He did not prove anything so far.
If you read any further, rhino does explain what he's actually done. Rhino even offered an isolated version of the scroller as evidence that it is NOT precalculated.

So far I've seen nothing to prove that everything is precalculated, at least not more is precalculated than in other demos.

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Offline trocoloco

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #118 on: 22:09, 02 May 11 »
Edit: Hey, that's worth reading. Longshot has analyzed the Batman demo (Thanks!) and he prooves what I did only guess after watching it the first time: Everything is precalculated...

TFM/FS it looks like you didn't read the thread thoroughly. Before saying thinks like that please be more careful and back your opinions by investigating first, and not simply judging by guessing after watching it the first time. Rhino proved wrong (with precise details) Longshot's deductions for not knowing and understanding the code enough

it's not nice underrating someone's work when that person put a lot of effort into it

Offline HAL 6128

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #119 on: 22:21, 02 May 11 »
...or - after all - the result is - from a viewing side - just a pretty good demo :)
...isn't it?
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Offline trocoloco

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #120 on: 22:32, 02 May 11 »
...or - after all - the result is - from a viewing side - just a pretty good demo :)
...isn't it?

absolutely  :)

Offline Executioner

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #121 on: 07:19, 03 May 11 »
If it ANY demo has a pre-calculated SIN table for example, it must be shit. You're supposed to use the Z80 to calculate it using logarithms, which also can't be pre-calculated. If you use a PC to do any of the work then it's definitely no good, never mind coding on an emulator. Don't you know your supposed to type in the op-codes by hand on a real CPC 464 and only save the code to tape since even assemblers and disc drives are tools that make it too easy to write proper demos.

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #122 on: 07:47, 03 May 11 »
Sorry Executionner but you are completely wrong...

A proper CPC code has to be at first done for speccy48.
THEN it has to be ported on said Amstrad CPC 464.
 ;D

Look at all the cool games such technique gave us.



Anyway, the precalculated-realtime debate seem to be as old as Demoscene.

To me (a novice on the matter) I would say that wanting no precalculation is also a way to limit yourself.

Also an 8 bit computer is simply limited.
Getting some precalculations or "cheating" a bit is also a way to get Artistical stuffs that would otherwise be simply impossible.

It's as if in Comics, some inker would tell another one his work is shyte because he uses a screen-tone project kit* while it is more hardcore to do your ditherings by hands with a pencil.

Manga or american comics or even european Bande Desssinée can actually use both.


*this is some Decalcomania ditherings (dots or lines or whatever) that you can apply to your drawings to get shadowings or textures effects.. those are of course regular and can be differently shaped.
Very used in Mangas.
Of course modern computer graphics softwares include this.

Funnily, such a debate is quite actual in Comic Books industry...

-Tracers : peoples who "trace" from photo... Greg Land per exemple, his superheroines are actually pornstars and he often re-use same bits of drawing.
-Real natural colours of Computer colouring : you directly paint the original drawn strips or you scan them and use computer to get the colours...
-even to use rules and compass for the actual drawings...

But the plain fact is : as long as it looks good and the story is interesting, who care?


and so on.


So vast debate.

Technical Demo or Artistic Demo ?

To me, getting some 512K piece of code to run continuously for about 10 minutes... well ok if you have a 16bit computer such as Amiga or ST, with DMA on DiskDrives, and RAMs bigger than what a disk can handle (1 disk is 720K on ST, while RAM is often 1024K...) there is no real problem...

But on a CPC... loading while runing tunes/stuff was never used for games per exemple... it is a delicate process that is actually part of the technical approach and even add additionnal constraints.
And RAM is drastically limited, even in 128K mode.

best way is to cleverly mix both aspect of the Demo : Artistical and Technical prowness, as fit best.


Just like :
"oh look at this multiscoll overcan fullscreen scrolltext... "
Guy, it sucks, you only display letters characters, to get the text telling how good you are displayed many time in many colours and  many scrolls just to display "look how I am good as scrolltext"...
But :
-unreadable : scrolltext are often not easy to read...
-Texts ? there is no art in this...


I prefer the shadow of the beast demo to any multiscroll text (be it with even more paralax and rasters and so on).


Just a matter of opinion.


Perhaps nationnalistic concern occured.

Spain = games.
France = Demo.
Germany = hardware and OS...lol.

oops, now Spain = both games and demos.

Well, until the new R-type is released...(Spain tends to produce a lot of speccy ports theses days...)
« Last Edit: 07:57, 03 May 11 by MacDeath »

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #123 on: 09:57, 03 May 11 »
Heheh +1 Executioner, Hal...

I really don't care if it's precalculated or not. If precalculation and cross-dev is the way to go forward several stages (or one QL ;) ) then so be it, I really love the demo...

Offline McKlain

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Re: Batman Forever
« Reply #124 on: 09:59, 03 May 11 »
If it ANY demo has a pre-calculated SIN table for example, it must be shit. You're supposed to use the Z80 to calculate it using logarithms, which also can't be pre-calculated. If you use a PC to do any of the work then it's definitely no good, never mind coding on an emulator. Don't you know your supposed to type in the op-codes by hand on a real CPC 464 and only save the code to tape since even assemblers and disc drives are tools that make it too easy to write proper demos.

LOL  :laugh:

Well, until the new R-type is released...(Spain tends to produce a lot of speccy ports theses days...)
   

Double LOL  :laugh:

I hope that my spanish comrades release UWOL 1 and King's Valley asap 8)

Mac, I agree with you about the texscrollers. Most boring stuff ever invented.

I guess that the focus of a demo depends of your target audience. Maybe you are doing it to amuse your coder friends and put a load of effects and textscrollers explaning what you just did, using some ripped background music from some game or from an old demo, or a converted tune from atari st. Or maybe you have a theme for the demo and just want to make everybody amused and have them entertained for a few minutes. I prefer the "trackmo" style, of course.