Bloc us/ Benediction & Brainstorm

[voXfReaX]

Hello all,

Krusty, Ultrasyd and I prepared a small demo which was submitted for the wild competition at Evoke demoparty held in Cologne/ Germany last week.

Its name? Bloc Us!

You can see a video of our demo captured from the real machine here:

Bloc Us! captured on a real machine. Amstrad CPC demo presented at Evoke 2011

And of course you can download it by clicking on one of the following Pouet links:

1. http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57525 (Evoke version; with Targhan's FDC routines)
2. http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57547 (cracked  by Tahiti Bob; normal amsdos loader)

Unfortunately, the demo ranked 9th (out of 10 participations in total); something that was kinda surprising since we don't feel that such a low position actually reflects to the potential of our demo... Anyway, that's life! Shit happens! 

We are waiting for your comments/ feedback! 

>>voxfreax/BND<<

[tastefulmrship]

We are the invaders. We will rape your ears and destroy your planet.
We are the invaders. We will kill your dog and eat all your bacon!

(sorry...)


Back on-topic...
Great little demo! Amazing music (which is currently on repeat in WinAMP!) from Ultrasyd. Shame it came in 9th.

[TFM]

Unfortunately, the demo ranked 9th (out of 10 participations in total); something that was kinda surprising since we don't feel that such a low position actually reflects to the potential of our demo... Anyway, that's life! Shit happens! 

We are waiting for your comments/ feedback! 

>>voxfreax/BND<<

Well, a 9th place is good for this blocky into ;-) You say that there are only seven demos on the CPC? So if you take your mouth that full, then you really have to produce something better! Without that stupid intro-text, which offends 99% of all CPC demowriters, you may would have made place 7 at least. So next time, be more humble, work harder, and make the 1st. Good luck!

[McKlain]

Well, a 9th place is good for this blocky into ;-) You say that there are only seven demos on the CPC? So if you take your mouth that full, then you really have to produce something better! Without that stupid intro-text, which offends 99% of all CPC demowriters, you may would have made place 7 at least. So next time, be more humble, work harder, and make the 1st. Good luck!

[krusty_benediction]

Well, a 9th place is good for this blocky into ;-) You say that there are only seven demos on the CPC? So if you take your mouth that full, then you really have to produce something better! Without that stupid intro-text, which offends 99% of all CPC demowriters, you may would have made place 7 at least. So next time, be more humble, work harder, and make the 1st. Good luck!

We never argued Bloc Us! would be a good demo.
We have received almost all the complaints about it we expected to have before releasing it (we expected even more!).

But it is time to open your eyes and see that most other demos (the ones not displayed) are totally outdated and not better than this one (worst they do not work totally in a retro).

[TFM]

But it is time to open your eyes and see that most other demos (the ones not displayed) are totally outdated and not better than this one (worst they do not work totally in a retro).

Sorry, I just don't agree in this point. There are a lot of timless demos, which are way better. Digital Orgasm, Face Huggers Megademo and much much more...

Actually, how can a demo be outdated? Do algorithms decay? Are GFX decomposed on disc?

No! But you (as young guys I expect) just follow the vogue. And if you go with the vogue, then you will be outdated just in less than a sinp with the fingers. Maybe you should appreciate what's not in vogue now, it may be in vogue soon 

[krusty_benediction]

Sorry, I just don't agree in this point. There are a lot of timless demos, which are way better. Digital Orgasm, Face Huggers Megademo and much much more...

Yes they are good, but they are outdated in my opinion, even if no recent cpc demo use so many maths.
But they are not in the same category of demos, they load they part.
Digital orgasm does not work well on all crtcs and is probably one of the ugliest demo I have ever seen on CPC...


Ah, and I totally do not care if I offend other demomakers, even if I am wrong.
If we are wrong, they can  make a fool of us in their next production.
If we are right, they can also make a fool of us in their next production and improve themselves.
It is that real demomaking!

[voXfReaX]

Well, a 9th place is good for this blocky into ;-) You say that there are only seven demos on the CPC? So if you take your mouth that full, then you really have to produce something better! Without that stupid intro-text, which offends 99% of all CPC demowriters, you may would have made place 7 at least. So next time, be more humble, work harder, and make the 1st. Good luck!

By speaking the truth and trying to express the reality, we didn't want to offend any of the 99% CPC demowriters... What we wanted to do is the simplest thing: Tease all the remaining people in order to bring the propaganda on and make them feel a bit like "what the fuck I have been doing all these years? I have to do something to suppress the other guys"...
We don't offend; we simply speak the truth...
I am sure that all of the sceners enjoyed the most out of Face Hugger's Ultimate MD and PD's Voyage and personal megademos, but somehow we are in 2011 and they were made on 1991, 1994 and 1996 accordingly... However, each of their demonstrations were single parts only and nothing more (i do not say that they were not impressive)...
We want to challenge everyone because we want to see a higher level of activity... We even challenge you! Are you ready to accept it?

[MaV]

But it is time to open your eyes and see that most other demos (the ones not displayed) are totally outdated and not better than this one (worst they do not work totally in a retro).

Sorry, I just don't agree in this point. There are a lot of timless demos, which are way better. Digital Orgasm, Face Huggers Megademo and much much more...

I'll go fetch my popcorn.

No, better yet. I'll incite the flame. *g*

Yes, some outstanding demos have a timeless quality to them. Nevertheless there are a lot of parts in demos that got dated real soon. Techniques that have been repeated ad nauseam and weren't very pleasing aesthetically in the first place.

I know it's a matter of taste. But let me give two examples of techniques that should not be put prominently in a demo ever again, IMO:

Vectorballs - Someone had the idea a long time ago. I didn't even like them 20 years ago, yet they were repeated over and over again. Please, do not use them ever again!

Scrolling messages - Please keep them to a minimum. I'm not watching a demo expecting to read endless monologues by some infant soul. It was a way to get your voice heard in your teenage years back in the 80s. We're older now - and hopefully more mature.

If you use them sparingly or have found a way to show them off technically, that these will blast our brains, then go on, show them. Otherwise please let them rest in peace.

Ok, I want to hear others voicing their complaints.

[TFM]

... We even challenge you! Are you ready to accept it?

You will absolutely disagree, but let me tell you obout my POV in coding: This is my list of coding levels (I is the best) ...

I. Make an OS
II. Make a Game
III. Make a Demo / Application
IV. Crack a Game
V. Code some BASIC ;-)

As you see, in my world nobody can challenge me. Even not Prodatron, his OS is looking windows like - so nice - but from the technical side (limitations) it's far behind. I know a lot of people who think different, but they lack knowledge to be more than a coder in BASIC.

(So how do you like my words.... ? You feel disappointed... ? Well, yes I can understand... Guess you got the message now. Krusty will not take it, he made that clear).

Seriously:
I see good intention in your words... maybe people should be teased to get active again. On the other hand the CPC scene is so small (and if you think about competent coders etc. it's even smaller) that comments like Krustys are pure poison.

[McKlain]

We need demos with design+coding+music+style, in no particular importance order. How many CPC demos can you count that have all of those? Cause you can see lots of them in the other retro platforms.

[krusty_benediction]

TFM you did not understand any of the messages

Without that stupid intro-text, which offends 99% of all CPC demowriters, you may would have made place 7 at least

Seriously:
I see good intention in your words... maybe people should be teased to get active again. On the other hand the CPC scene is so small (and if you think about competent coders etc. it's even smaller) that comments like Krustys are pure poison.

We have never said that the productions not cited are crap.
We only gave observations, and it is a reality, there are less than 10 real demos (whatever their quality).
If you do not agree, you are really narrow minded...
Digital Orgasm and Face Hugger megademo are not real demos (this do not say they are crap!).
There are a list of onescreen effects.
The real demos are the one we presented (without middline process) and 2 or 3 others added in pushnpop thread.
Nothing else.


We did not want to compare the size of our dicks but give this information to non CPC sceners in order to give them the envy to participate to the CPC scene.

You will absolutely disagree, but let me tell you obout my POV in coding: This is my list of coding levels (I is the best) ...

I. Make an OS
II. Make a Game
III. Make a Demo / Application
IV. Crack a Game
V. Code some BASIC ;-)

I do not disagree, but it is out of context...

(So how do you like my words.... ? You feel disappointed... ? Well, yes I can understand... Guess you got the message now. Krusty will not take it, he made that clear).

I do not feel disappointed of your answer as I agree...

As you see, in my world nobody can challenge me.

And are you agree of this situation ?! I think yes, in order to improve your superiority feelings which we can smell a lot in your latest post.
It is easy to have no other challengers where you are almost alone!
Maybe if there will be only one other os coder, all your work would be considered as a totally crap.
With your way of thinking you want this situation never happen!
With our way of thinking we want this situation happen (in our demo world) whereas we are not the best demogroup!
This is like that everybody can go further!

[tastefulmrship]

Ok... now that you're not constrained by the demo-compo timescales, do you plan to release a 'final' version of this demo? Incorporating the 'polishing touches' that the community have requested?
I'd like to see it, personally.

[krusty_benediction]

Ok... now that you're not constrained by the demo-compo timescales, do you plan to release a 'final' version of this demo? Incorporating the 'polishing touches' that the community have requested?
I'd like to see it, personally.

We already though about that before finishing it (doing an extended version) as we knew what would be its weakness.
I do not know yet. It is true it would be great, but it is also true it would not be well accepted by the demo consumers which will say it is a kind of code reuse or self plagiarism ...
So maybe an other version will be done, but not now, because we have to finish  another demo started months ago (and the polishing takes 99% of the time).

[redbox]

Nice demo, thanks for creating it! 

[steve]

We only gave observations, and it is a reality, there are less than 10 real demos (whatever their quality).
If you do not agree, you are really narrow minded...
Digital Orgasm and Face Hugger megademo are not real demos (this do not say they are crap!).
There are a list of onescreen effects.
The real demos are the one we presented (without middline process) and 2 or 3 others added in pushnpop thread.
Nothing else.

......but give this information to non CPC sceners in order to give them the envy to participate to the CPC scene.

I did not understand most of this thread.
Would you consider writing a wiki entry about what a "real" demo is? and another one about writing good demos?
Thanks.

[tastefulmrship]

I do not know yet. It is true it would be great, but it is also true it would not be well accepted by the demo consumers which will say it is a kind of code reuse or self plagiarism ...

Many PC demos have a 'final' version; updated with those 'polishing touches' that are simply impossible to do within a compo's strict guidelines. I can't see any reason why CPC demos cannot be the same.

I also feel the demo creators within our community will embrace a 'final' version of this demo as it has such great potential. If they don't, then maybe the CPC demo scene is finally dying out. And that would be such a shame, especially as we're now beginning to see what an Amstrad can do!



The CPC demo community should stick together and not argue amongst one another. There's only a few of you still coding demos and we need you to code more! WE NEED CPC DEMOS! (Well, I do! It's an addiction!) We need you guys to inspire others, younger people, to start coding on the CPC. Too much emphasis has been on C64 and the recent influx of demos has opened people's eyes to a different system. Our system! Let's see an EDGE OF DISGRACE killer on the CPC!


(Phew! I'm going back to lurking now... keeping quiet... nothing to see here... no, sir, nothing!)
- JTMS...

[MaV]

Very well argued, tastefulmrship!

[Bryce]

@tastefulmrShip: For some strange reason, I keep expecting to read the word "FECK" and "KNICKERS" in the middle of your posts I've compensated up to now by adding them myself while I read.

Bryce.

[tastefulmrship]

@tastefulmrShip: For some strange reason, I keep expecting to read the word "FECK" and "KNICKERS" in the middle of your posts I've compensated up to now by adding them myself while I read.

Just for you, I've changed my profile so the words 'Feck! Arse! Girls! Drink!' appear under the Father Jack avatar.
^_^



<------- Here!

[MaV]

'Feck! Arse! Girls! Drink!'

[Bryce]

Much better Now where's that bottle of Harpic I bought yesterday?

Bryce.

[norecess]

"Edge of disgrace"-killer already exists, it's called "Batman Forever" and is much better !!

[tastefulmrship]

"Edge of disgrace"-killer already exists, it's called "Batman Forever" and is much better !!

Sure! Then maybe BATMAN FOREVER needs to be the benchmark that all new demos strive to exceed. (Easier said than done, I understand!)

However, there are some routines in EoD that I would like to see the CPC doing; textured vectors, plasma-textured vectors, multiple MODE plasma, gouraud/light-source shaded vectors, multiple MODE roto-zoomers, and multiple roto-zoomers on one screen!
I don't even know if any of these are even possible on a CPC. Does anyone know?

All these things take time, I realise that, but it might be nice if people released individual routines, either here or on push'n'pop, so the rest of the community can see where the CPC is going and optimise them if required! Maybe this is already happening, I don't know. I sure hope it is.


(Please remember, I'm only an observer. I have no programming talent! Please do not take offense from anything I say... my ignorance is not an excuse, it's a result of personal laziness!)

[Devilmarkus]

IMO the quality of a demo does not base on the latest Ultra-Cool-Super-CRTC-Tricks or Mega-Flushing-Plasma-Effect-We-Already-Have-Seen-Ages-Before.

It mostly depends on the innovation and creativity.
A demo should tell a story and should run continuously.
And not a Scroller, a Plasma, and a Credits-with-fucking-greetings-message. THIS is the crap we find daily for our CPC.
Sure it's megacool that we have such superb pixel artists and when you combine that with a nice CRTC effect it looks more good.
But the sense has been gone here.
Be more innoative! Make demos, no technical nonsense...

(No, I don't speak about this nice little demo but in general!)