Info about Bitmap Vandals (UK scene)

[Interrupt]

I was in contact with Obi just before he left the CPC scene and wasn't aware of the criticism surrounding him and Demoware until relatively recently. I'd like to do a video covering Demoware I & II but want to deal with the controversies, criticism from as broad a perspective as I can. 

I'd be interested in hearing from any involved in The Bitmap Vandals, or those who knew anyone involved. I'd also be interested in hearing from those who interacted with them. 

The wiki entry for Demoware I seems to have been written by someone with inside information on the controversy for example...  https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php?title=Demoware&redirect=no&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop

If anyone has any pointers to magazine, fanzine or demo mentions that would also be appreciated.

[redbox]

The wiki articles for Demoware 1 and 2 were written by CRTC (Richard Fairhurst).

I may know who the Sorcerer is who coded some of Demoware 2 

[Gryzor]

Oh the drama! I wanna know more now!

[Interrupt]

The wiki articles for Demoware 1 and 2 were written by CRTC (Richard Fairhurst).

I may know who the Sorcerer is who coded some of Demoware 2 

I'll be in touch for some more information then! 

I've seen @ChaRleyTroniC on here occasionally so perhaps he can remember some of the story. I'm happy to take private messages from any one. 

[ChaRleyTroniC]

I can't remember any more about Demoware 1 other than what's in the wiki article! Safe to say Obi was never really a coder. But Demoware 2 was looking pretty promising.

Ultimately we were all kids and the back and forth around stuff like this was just standard playground fare. Our "gang" finding out that another gang had produced something quite so bad was what passed for amusement at the time.

(30 years on and I found myself singing "Clown of Bong is going to fuck you out of the szene" while cycling up the Lot valley yesterday. Plus ca change...)

[Interrupt]

Fair enough, it was a while ago! I might have a couple of questions at some point about your "gang" though so I can tell the broader stories right if that's ok (I need to do some research/reading first).

I'm imagining that I might be able to tell this specific story as a way to touch on a number of facets of demo scene culture including how young we were (I think I'm a few years younger again which is why I never really got connected in to the scene), the "gang"/playground mindset, originality vs copying vs cracking and what it takes to earn respect etc. 

[MacDeath]

not sure a wiki article should feature that much amount of negative judgemental opinions at every lines and sentences...
at this point this feels personal and biased.


also a demo may be judged lackluster, with quite a lot of beginner's errors or whatever flowering euphemism you can find, but don't jsut say it's bad... this feels unpolite and a bad demo always has the merit to exist.


(where are my popcorns?)

[Gryzor]

not sure a wiki article should feature that much amount of negative judgemental opinions at every lines and sentences...
at this point this feels personal and biased.


also a demo may be judged lackluster, with quite a lot of beginner's errors or whatever flowering euphemism you can find, but don't jsut say it's bad... this feels unpolite and a bad demo always has the merit to exist.


(where are my popcorns?)

Totally agree. Some people see the wiki as an opportunity to blog...

[krusty_benediction]

not sure a wiki article should feature that much amount of negative judgemental opinions at every lines and sentences...
at this point this feels personal and biased.


also a demo may be judged lackluster, with quite a lot of beginner's errors or whatever flowering euphemism you can find, but don't jsut say it's bad... this feels unpolite and a bad demo always has the merit to exist.


(where are my popcorns?)

Totally agree. Some people see the wiki as an opportunity to blog...

This page has been created almost 20 years ago. This is not a blog drama or history rewriting drama.

The problem is more related to (self) plagarism. The right question to ask is more general: what do we expect has a content of the wiki?

In my opinion we should have facts without personal judgements (facts can still be negative) in the main page of any subject.

Then personal judgements that are eventually linked to external sources. Ideally contradictory judgements. This is also the place for the discussion page of an article. 

When a page is a copypaste of a fanzine, it have to not be the main page of the subject and also have to be explicitly tagged as such (in the categories that appear at the bottom of the page, as well as with a visual bloc as we can find many on wikipedia)