CDT : Direct/CSW Recording

Started by freemac, 14:52, 01 October 18

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freemac

Hi,

Are some CPC tape CDT games using raw music (ID 15 and ID 18 of CDT file format)

Where can I found some of theses tapes, for testbench purpose ?

deepfb

If you mean games using raw music as part of the protection scheme, I know The Red Arrows behaves like this. I have recorded a .wav of the tape that works on CPCE, and I plan to upload it to GUA's FTP sometime this week. I will let you know if it interests you.


The .cdt of The Red Arrows on CPC-Power is a cracked one. I don't know why cngsoft preferred to patch the original game rather than to support it in CSW2CDT (I guess he did it before realeasing CSW2CDT).

freemac

I'm currently starting my first implementation of CDT player on my project, I'm not yet so far, but, it can be usefull on a next further version :D


I just remember a Spanish CPC platform game that does play a music intro a while, not being a data block, but just an analogic record. But I don't remember its name.


I try to determinate what sort of signals I have to output from CDT, because in my electronic part, just generating sinus with PWM seems hard, and mixing PWM seems also a large part of work, so I just wanna to delimit all that.


So here I need firstly some samples of CDT using several CDT purposes : ID 15, ID 18, and other border line ones.

deepfb

Quote from: freemac on 22:09, 01 October 18
I just remember a Spanish CPC platform game that does play a music intro a while, not being a data block, but just an analogic record. But I don't remember its name.
I don't know which is that one! I will ask in the spanish forums :D
Regarding Red Arrows, I have uploaded the .wav to

amstrad.serveftp.com
user: amstrad
pwd: amstrad
folder: /CPC/Cintas/CDTs/deepfb - CDTs originales


So I guess this link should work if you enter the usr and pwd provided :D

arnoldemu


Quote from: freemac on 14:52, 01 October 18
Hi,

Are some CPC tape CDT games using raw music (ID 15 and ID 18 of CDT file format)

Where can I found some of theses tapes, for testbench purpose ?
I think I may have some cdts with these blocks. I will look.

My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

dlfrsilver

Quote from: deepfb on 17:52, 01 October 18
If you mean games using raw music as part of the protection scheme, I know The Red Arrows behaves like this. I have recorded a .wav of the tape that works on CPCE, and I plan to upload it to GUA's FTP sometime this week. I will let you know if it interests you.


The .cdt of The Red Arrows on CPC-Power is a cracked one. I don't know why cngsoft preferred to patch the original game rather than to support it in CSW2CDT (I guess he did it before realeasing CSW2CDT).


Hi :)


It's certainly not a cracked version. Cesar has implemented at my requested the keytone used on Red arrows inside the CDT. I don't know where you imagined that it was cracked.


Hermol sent me your spanish version, it uses the same keytone.


And indeed, we plan to indicate in the manual of CSW2CDT how to insert the keytone inside a freshly made CDT. way easier :)

deepfb

#6
Quote from: dlfrsilver on 10:35, 23 October 18
It's certainly not a cracked version. Cesar has implemented at my requested the keytone used on Red arrows inside the CDT. I don't know where you imagined that it was cracked.

I think it was Kukulcan who sent me an email with a list of games that should be replaced on CPC Power. There, The Red Arrows .cdt is tagged as "To Discard" with this caution:

Quote
Tout les blocs du jeu sont standard, seulement voilà, il y a des blocs spéciaux qui génèrent une musiquette qu'on entend à la page de présentation. Ces blocs là ne se convertissent pas avec les outils actuels.
Merci à toi César pour avoir déterminé ce qui empêchait la conversion de ce jeu en CDT.

That's the only reason why I recorded a .wav of it. Look, I may have misunderstood which was the problem with Red Arrows & thought it was cracked or patched (sorry about that), but I have still lots of programs to convert to .cdt or .dsk, and I am acting at request of cpcmaniaco or Bruno. If something is already dumped, I have no interest at all in doing again a job that has been done!

Quote from: dlfrsilver on 10:35, 23 October 18
Hermol sent me your spanish version, it uses the same keytone.

Sure, System 4 España did not modify the original tapes that they released here.

Quote from: dlfrsilver on 10:35, 23 October 18And indeed, we plan to indicate in the manual of CSW2CDT how to insert the keytone inside a freshly made CDT. way easier :)

That's great! But it would be way easier (for me) if César would have replied the emails I sent him regarding the use of CSW2CDT, the problems I have found and the conversion of tapes with very weird loaders (I believe I wrote him about Red Arrows, among others), instead of using you as an agent of him  ;)

dlfrsilver

Quote from: deepfb on 11:38, 23 October 18
I think it was Kukulcan who sent me an email with a list of games that should be replaced on CPC Power. There, The Red Arrows .cdt is tagged as "To Discard" with this caution:

That's the only reason why I recorded a .wav of it. Look, I may have misunderstood which was the problem with Red Arrows & thought it was cracked or patched (sorry about that), but I have still lots of programs to convert to .cdt or .dsk, and I am acting at request of cpcmaniaco or Bruno. If something is already dumped, I have no interest at all in doing again a job that has been done!


basically, my old dump of Red Arrows has dirty blocks. That's why he put 'to discard'.

QuoteThat's great! But it would be way easier (for me) if César would have replied the emails I sent him regarding the use of CSW2CDT, the problems I have found and the conversion of tapes with very weird loaders (I believe I wrote him about Red Arrows, among others), instead of using you as an agent of him  ;)


csw2cdt is our creation. I have participated to its creation. I'm not his agent, we are co-authors of csw2cdt.


Maybe you can tell me about the problems you found, and also the conversions of tapes with wierd loaders ? Don't reinvent the wheel ! ;)

deepfb

#8
Sure, I am going to contact you straight instead of writing César from now on!

Gryzor

How does raw music/sound afford copy protection though? If you're trying to do it on a computer then sure, a copying program may not pick up non-data, but a dual Amstrad tape deck would surely do the job?

dlfrsilver

Quote from: Gryzor on 10:11, 02 November 18
How does raw music/sound afford copy protection though? If you're trying to do it on a computer then sure, a copying program may not pick up non-data, but a dual Amstrad tape deck would surely do the job?


Those protections can only be made and reproduced with industrial hardware.


We currently have lots of problems to make killer ring from ariolasoft working when reversed from CDT on a real 464.


the computer doesn't recognize the sound :/

Gryzor

Yeah, but what does it mean, "doesn't recognize the sound"? If it's not data it's not recognised anyhow.

dlfrsilver

Quote from: Gryzor on 09:35, 08 November 18
Yeah, but what does it mean, "doesn't recognize the sound"? If it's not data it's not recognised anyhow.

It means that the CPC 464 doesn't recognize the sound of the key tone. And hence, doesn't decrypt the game to conclude the loading.

It is not data, but it can be measured in pulses.

Gryzor

We were talking about "raw music" before, that's why I asked.



Ok, but why aren't these pulses copied?

dlfrsilver

basically, i don't know exactly what the protection routine do, but it requires a very strict precision.


A precision that the emulators are not taking care of right now. some dumps done are only working on emulators, but not on real hardware.




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