Author Topic: The KEEP Project: JavaCPC front-end, financed by the European Union!  (Read 5975 times)

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Offline PhilZeVibe

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Here is something I discovered while typing JavaCPC on Google...

"Keeping Emulation Environments Portable" (KEEP) is a project financed by the European Union. It started in February 2009 and will end in March 2012.
It's aim is basically to develop a software called "Emulation Framework".
But don't be abused by the "framework" term. It seems that all those guys are doing is just developing yet another emulator front-end.

So, this front-end supports 7 emulators: Dioscuri, Qemu, VICE, UAE, BeebEm, JavaCPC, Thomson.

Well, you know, it's quite complex to make a front-end in Java. It's an EU "research" project after all.
So the budget is 3M€ (yep... 3.000.000€ !!!)

And of course, as this project is financed by the European Union and other public organisms, we are in fact all paying for it.

Now you're wondering if I'm joking... So here are some good links to read:
The KEEP Project website: KEEP Website
The "Emulation Framework": Emulation Framework [EF]

Some screenshots of what cost us 3.000.000€!  >:(


« Last Edit: 21:27, 14 January 13 by phi2x »
Atwood's law (2007): "Any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript."

Offline beaker

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lol, I don't know if that tops Donkeypedia from a few years back but comes damn close.  ;D

Offline MaV

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Wow, just wow!

Apparently boot-licking and kissing certain people's rings ( (c) tastefulmrship ;) ) can take you a long way.

Imagine the resources you would have at hand for three years! (and look at what they did with it.)
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Offline TFM

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Well, you know, it's quite complex to make a front-end in Java. It's an EU "research" project after all.
So the budget is 3M€ (yep, that's 3.000.000€ !!!)

Well, that's quite tight! We got six times more for 4th generation sequencers due to Obamas stimulus package last year.
 
 
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Offline ralferoo

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Seriously, this kind of project makes me insanely angry at the expenditure of vast amounts of money for no good reason.

It doesn't (seem to) contribute anything to the people who made the emulators and doesn't actually (seem to) provide any benefits over what was there before.

From a rough calculation, with 7 emulators on the list (most of which aren't Java based anyway), that's enough to pay each development for 5 developers each for 3 years. Given that that doesn't actually seem to be happening, where exactly does the money go?
« Last Edit: 13:17, 16 February 12 by ralferoo »

Offline MaV

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Given that that doesn't actually seem to be happening, where exactly does the money go?
I have a vision of one or two villas in the mediterranean with an excellent view to the sea.
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Offline Devilmarkus

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All I see here is a stupid GUI which is able to analyze some file formats and tell you which emulator you should use.
It also has the emulators embedded.
(On my PC the deprecated JavaCPC version does not even startup, because they used an old executable!!! They would better use the .JAR emulator instead!!!)

And fact: Dunno, who earns the tons of money, but I (and the others surely, too) did not earn any penny!
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Offline Bryce

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Oh go on Markus, admit it... You're posting from a luxury yacht somewhere off the coast of France at the moment aren't you? :D

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Offline Devilmarkus

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Sure, I owned the Costa Concordia...
While I read your posting, I had an "oops" with a reef and thats it!!! :(

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

Oh go on Markus, admit it... You're posting from a luxury yacht somewhere off the coast of France at the moment aren't you? :D

Bryce.
« Last Edit: 14:48, 16 February 12 by Devilmarkus »
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Offline deepfb

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According to KEEP's webpage, the beneficiaries of their funds are institutions such the Koninklijke Bibliotheek, the University of Portsmouth or the Deutsche Nationalbibliothek. I am sure that there is people working there on something the EU can see, not only that frontend -I have worked for the EU, and they are as strict with the payment rules as we all want them to be on this issue :-)


Another beneficiary of KEEP funds is Vincent Joguin, and it seems he is involved within KEEP's board too. I think I have met his name before when looking for emulator tools, and a quick search tells that he is the author of FaST emulator and Disk2FDI utility. So it's not european officials having an expensive Brunello with the bellinas at that italian villa, but at least somebody who knows what an Atari ST is ;-D


Anyway, we will try to have Andreas Lange (director of the Computerspiele Museum of Berlin) as a guest speaker at RetroMadrid, next May. We want him to explain KEEP projects (I think he was a kind of 'curator' of the organization some time ago), and, of course, how did  he managed to establish the Computerspiele Museum :-). I met him three years ago when he was acting as speaker in a lecture on videogames as cultural goods. He explained what KEEP is and the then current projects of the organization: they had produced a lot of papers on how the emulation and preservation activities should be led so the industry wouldn't complain, i.e. a manual of good practices to emulate and create software archives so the people behind them wouldn't be sued for copyright infringements. In order to produce those papers they had contacted a bunch of emulator authors and the European Games Developer Federation, and they had published the results at their webpage.


As matter of fact, I asked him to come back to explain everything further, and he said he couldn't afford that since he will be paying everything himself and he was not rich enough to come to Madrid every year. So the amount of KEEP's budget seems abusive and insulting, although they think it's not legitimate to pay 200 euro (the amount of money that RetroMadrid organizers will be paying for Lange's trip and accommodation) to have one of their members showing their work here ;-)
« Last Edit: 15:31, 16 February 12 by deepfb »

Offline Gryzor

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You. Must. Be. Fucking. Kidding me. We're sure it's not 3.000,000 (depending on your notation)?

Offline PhilZeVibe

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If only...

I slightly underestimated how much this program cost actually.
As deepfb said, that project is not entirely financed by the European Union. Other institutions (national libraries, associations, university...) have also participated in it.

Here is the precise total budget of this program:
Total cost: EUR 3 973 445
EU contribution: EUR 3 149 741

Source: http://cordis.europa.eu/projects/index.cfm?fuseaction=app.details&TXT=keep&LNG=en&REF=89496
« Last Edit: 18:54, 17 February 12 by phi2x »
Atwood's law (2007): "Any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript."

Offline Gryzor

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4 million euros. 4. MILLION. Wtf, how long would it take ONE average programmer to come up with it? And, comparatively, what would, say, WinAPE be worth?

Offline PhilZeVibe

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My guess is that a sub-average intern student can produce this front-end in a few months.
And that would be a lazy internship.

WinAPE is a 50x more complex project, or more... So I let you do the maths  ;D
Atwood's law (2007): "Any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript."

Offline remax

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Offline PhilZeVibe

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As a side note, if any EU official comes by and reads here, I hereby offer my service for the next EU framework programme.

I can quickly deliver quality emulation in Javascript of any ancient platforms you might like.
You can look at the work I've already done here: http://cpcbox.com

I think it would be a perfect match in regards to the KEEP program objectives.
And I'm much cheaper than 4M€ too.

So just drop a mail to admin@cpcbox.com so we discuss it and engage in a fruitful collaboration :)
Atwood's law (2007): "Any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript."

Offline TFM

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A princess waits until the knight finds her...  :-*
 
But life is not a ferry tale...  :P
 
Wake up and get in contact with them by yourself!!!  :laugh:
 
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Offline Executioner

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As a side note, if any EU official comes by and reads here, I hereby offer my service for the next EU framework programme.

Me too.. If they want an emulation platform for any platform in Java, C, C++, Pascal or any other language, I'm happy to learn it if the money is that good!

Offline Gryzor

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Me too.. If they want an emulation platform for any platform in Java, C, C++, Pascal or any other language, I'm happy to learn it if the money is that good!



So you wouldn't do it for a measly €1m? :D

Offline Executioner

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So you wouldn't do it for a measly €1m? :D

That'd just about cover me full time for a year :)

Offline Bryce

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For €4.000.000 I'll build them the computers they want so they won't need an emulator. :)

Bryce.

Offline MacDeath

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*Seriously what is it supposed to be or do ?

I think it's just a cover for some secret European agency with a secret agenda and so on.



But as a "European retro-computer citizen" I don't like to see our money on "great projects" but with such shitty execution.

The guy who shat this should be in jail like all those governments who turned the banks' debt into a public debt...

Oh, and said banker too.



And Allan Sugar, because we know he stole us money by no putting 128K on all the CPC...


And Sir Clive because his Speccy was the plague that infected our beloved Amstrads and because no mortal man should have such a hot slutty wife and get away with it (be it with the clivemobile, this poor excuse of an electric vehicle...).



I can't believe the elected poeples and Technocrat stil ldon't know squat shit about computers.


In france we had this "plan informatique pour tous" that brough the awesomness of Thomson 8bit computer unto the World...

Those public-money sinks could'nt even just be as good as a simple CPC...
Were they clever they should have got a license by Amstrad to build CPC compatible models instead...

We would have had some Amstrad PLUS with mouse and 256K RAM and in built 3"1/2 720k floppies.
as soon as 1986... (Imagine, a proper "Amstrad TO8PLUS"... )
 ;D



Just look at elected peoples what do we have ?

"Political Science" (=science ?), Medecine Doctors (ok, why not, so they are good at inserting suppositories...) , Lawyers (= professionnal liar and law abusers), Economists (=lobbyists), and "professionnal politician" (some sort of Travelling salesman mod actually)...


But are there any Engineer ?
Any professionnal programmer ?
Computing science eminancies ?

Nope...
But to design a law system is actually closer to programming than anything else.


But hey, to design good law system is not what needed to be a politician, you just need to be "overly social" and somewhat corrupted...
 
« Last Edit: 20:42, 23 February 12 by MacDeath »

Offline Gryzor

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Erm... I hold a B.Sc. Econ, and am no lobbyist :D


Back on topic...

Offline robcfg

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By the way, did we mention that we're having Andreas Lange as guest in RetroMadrid? Maybe we can kidnap him and ask for a million or two  ;D

Offline Gryzor

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Hey, what do you think the Wiki should be worth in EU context? :D