2011 - what can a cpc'er look forward to?

[arnoldemu]

No, y'see it's not about wake up calls or anything like that... nah, i'll keep my head down and come back when it's all blown over.

Well I know that your main expertise, but correct me if I am wrong, is the c64.
But you have a very keen interest in other computers and their scenes, and you like to see new releases on all machines.

I try to also look at other scenes, and see what is going on there.

I appreciate what is done and see what can be done for the cpc.

I think input from someone outside of the cpc can be very helpful.

I'm not going to go into a flame war, to me your a respected person from another scene, who is taking an interest in our scene.. and that is a good thing.

[cpc4eva]

No, y'see it's not about wake up calls or anything like that... nah, i'll keep my head down and come back when it's all blown over.

mention of the colour palette has raised alot of other things - just some fun, people having their say as i see it - don't take things too seriously tmr. have your say dude  

[sigh]

No, y'see it's not about wake up calls or anything like that... nah, i'll keep my head down and come back when it's all blown over.

I too would be interested. It would be nice to learn more and expand.

Edit: But were really going off topic here!

So; anything else not mentioned or things that people are working on that we can look forward to for 2011? Any PLUS games?

[MacDeath]

CPC vs C64 = PC vs Amiga.

No!!!
CPC vs C64 = AtariST vs Amiga.

[TotO]

No, because ST do not have CPU power to compensate.

[TFM]

No!!!
CPC vs C64 = AtariST vs Amiga.

Noooo!!! (CPC has a way more powerful CPU, whereas ST and amiga share the same cpu without I/O instructions). ... 
But I did like your X-Mas story very very much and... Jade Raymond seems to be really cute ;-)

[fano]

No!!!
CPC vs C64 = AtariST vs Amiga.

I don't think , difference between CPC and C64 doesn't seem so large (technicaly speaking , ST seems to be far from Amiga).That seems to be more difficult to take full advantage of the CPC hardware too , i think there are a still a lot of things to do in terms of games on CPC.
To be honest , C64 smoothness is admirable but has a price , look at C64 game sprites and ingame graphics.Take a look after on CPC how graphics can be detailled (I think we can find a lot of games with theses types of graphics on CPC)

[cpc4eva]

I don't think , difference between CPC and C64 doesn't seem so large (technicaly speaking , ST seems to be far from Amiga).That seems to be more difficult to take full advantage of the CPC hardware too , i think there are a still a lot of things to do in terms of games on CPC.
To be honest , C64 smoothness is admirable but has a price , look at C64 game sprites and ingame graphics.Take a look after on CPC how graphics can be detailled (I think we can find a lot of games with theses types of graphics on CPC)

lets put some pictures up and compare screens - can someone tell me how, macdeath maybe? your always posting pics on here


on topic - cpc r- type remake had over 2000 views last time i looked on you tube id say this will be the cpc  standout for the year....


anyone interested in remaking old atari 2600 games to a cpc plus


or make a cpc + version of that facebook game bejewelled i really hate how you only have a minute

[TFM]

or make a cpc + version of that facebook game bejewelled i really hate how you only have a minute

Isn't there a CPC version already?

Not sure... take just Betiled! Great fun!

[fano]

lets put some pictures up and compare screens - can someone tell me how, macdeath maybe? your always posting pics on here

I am not a fan of picture or video posting as that makes long and difficult to read posts (especially when you run on a PIV1.6Ghz like me)  , but theses are few CPC games (and there are a lot like this) with what i mean in terms of graphics :
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=144
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=146
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=2
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=130
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1880
I didn't check but i think you can find C64 versions around the web if you really want to compare.
Note my point is not to say CPC is better than C64 but to show things are not so "clear" as C64 fans would say.

[cpc4eva]

thanks for those great links Fano


http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/threads/20018-Contra


i did a search for screens and came across this forum topic of contra - down the bottom people mention the c64, speccy and cpc versions of gryzor good read with screenshots


and this one was on retro gamer


http://www.retrogamer.net/show_image.php?imageID=1464&page=5




i cant believe i still havnt played captain blood god that looks graphically stunning and savage well that was high class all the way

[MacDeath]

But I did like your X-Mas story very very much and... Jade Raymond seems to be really cute ;-)

kool, at least someone noticed this fanfic wankery...

can someone tell me how, macdeath maybe? your always posting pics on here

wellwellwell...
find a pic on the net...
rightclick and "display picture"...
then use insert image and copy past the address of said picture in it...

Exemple :
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=144
click on one of the picture you want with display picture (don't know in english what windows says...)

you get this address/page :
http://www.cpc-power.com/images/ecran_titre/144.png

so "insert image in the Forum post reply options (edition)... copy past... the picture address...



(noob)


C64 shit...


CPC awesomness :




But another :

C64 : erf...


CPC : kool !

[sigh]

There is nothing wrong with the C64 colours. It just depends on how you use them. It also heavily depends on the skill of the artist to be able to use the colours effectively. Weve all seen amstrad graphics that still look crap no matter what colours were used.

[Metr]

OMG, what did the c64 do to Gryzor, hurt the eyes ! 

[awergh]

Isn't there a CPC version already?

Not sure... take just Betiled! Great fun!

What about Swap

[Xyphoe]

Seriously... some of what is being said here is just so factually inaccurate i'm really having to bite my tongue!

Nah go for it, I mean you'll find us a really friendly bunch - passionate yes - but if you present negative thoughts about the CPC or positive about the C64  as long as it's fair and accurate then I really dont think anyone will object. It'll be interesting to see and read personally. On certain other forums for the other machines I wouldn't recommend it tho! 


Anyway, at the end of the day it comes down to what your *favourite* machine is, not the best.

[fano]

There is nothing wrong with the C64 colours. It just depends on how you use them. It also heavily depends on the skill of the artist to be able to use the colours effectively. Weve all seen amstrad graphics that still look crap no matter what colours were used.

You are right , C64 colors seems "washed" for someone used to see CPC palette but it is possible to make great graphics with C64 palette too.
btw , I'd be curious to see games like Mayhem in Monsterland with CPC palette and without C64 graphics limitations.I am pretty sure it would fit greatly on the game style.

[TotO]

There is nothing wrong with the C64 colours. It just depends on how you use them.

Sure, if the artist use it for "wood + aluminum" or "soil + rock" styled pictures, there is nothing wrong...
You are only speaking about pictures, but C64 got a big in-game display limitation:
Hardware sprites can't use more than 3 colors... So you can't have "styled graphics", just flat colors.

Weve all seen amstrad graphics that still look crap no matter what colours were used.

Like you said: "It also depends on the artist skill"... And most CPC games use untouched spectrum and c64 graphics.

CPC uniform RGB color space (3*3*3) constraint gray scale to 3 values : black, gray, white. (compensated with blue)
So, it will never display the same styled C64 pictures. And vice versa.
In counterpart, CPC can display more colorful and polished in-game graphics... Gryzor is a great example.

[Bryce]

If I may throw a spanner in the works, and I can only speak from a hardware point of view... I've developed hardware for CPC, Commodore, Spectrum, Atari, Apple, MSX, Enterprise and several others. And I always thought that the Atari 800XL was one of the best machines to work with. It had an ACID-free cartridge port, analogue inputs on the joystick port, the SIO port/protocol was really easy to interface to and (to get back to the core of this discussion) I thought the colours were great. Favourite game was Attack of the mutant camels.

That said, my favourite machine was still the CPC for the convenience of the integrated tape/disc and the monitor (all the others required getting access to the family TV) and the power of its BASIC.

Bryce.

P.s. I still own a C64, Speccy 48K and several Ataris, but the CPCs still get used the most.

[sigh]

Sure, if the artist use it for "wood + aluminum" or "soil + rock" styled pictures, there is nothing wrong...
You are only speaking about pictures, but C64 got a big in-game display limitation:
Hardware sprites can't use more than 3 colors... So you can't have "styled graphics", just flat colors.
Like you said: "It also depends on the artist skill"... And most CPC games use untouched spectrum and c64 graphics.

CPC uniform RGB color space (3*3*3) constraint gray scale to 3 values : black, gray, white. (compensated with blue)
So, it will never display the same styled C64 pictures. And vice versa.
In counterpart, CPC can display more colorful and polished in-game graphics... Gryzor is a great example.

I'm sure that the C64 didn't have to use the hardware sprites and could operate the same way that the CPC uses sprites using clever programming, ram, cpu management etc?

But please correct me if I'm wrong.

3 colours is definitely a pain, but games like Double Dragon 2 has 4 coloured sprites so I'm not too sure if they were hardware or not. I did read somewhere that it's also possible to mix 2 colours together giving an illusion of more colours.

[TotO]

Yes, you can mix two lowres sprites to get up to 6 colors.
But you lose sprites for other usage.
May be, if you compute software sprites, you lose the hardware scrolling support.

[fano]

I'm sure that the C64 didn't have to use the hardware sprites and could operate the same way that the CPC uses sprites using clever programming, ram, cpu management etc?

If C64 doesn't use the Hardware sprites , the problem is background rendering is cell (char) based with limited colors per cell.I don't think C64 is able to use Software rendering like CPC where you have no special restrictions.More , like on CPC+ , it is not trivial to render software sprites with hardware pixel scrolling.After , maybe there are tricks able to go through theses limitations and used in games (as we are speaking about games not demos)

3 colours is definitely a pain, but games like Double Dragon 2 has 4 coloured sprites so I'm not too sure if they were hardware or not. I did read somewhere that it's also possible to mix 2 colours together giving an illusion of more colours.

What we see as one sprite can be several hardware sprites so if they own different palettes , it would be possible to use more to get more colors (as long it stays at 8 max per scanline)

[sigh]

If C64 doesn't use the Hardware sprites , the problem is background rendering is cell (char) based with limited colors per cell.I don't think C64 is able to use Software rendering like CPC where you have no special restrictions.

But if you were to use the sprites like how you use backdrop images (which are still sprites), then that wouldn't limit the colour?

[fano]

But if you were to use the sprites like how you use backdrop images (which are still sprites), then that wouldn't limit the colour?

That's different as background is a fixed array , you can not move a tile separatly.Sprites are limited to 8 , it is possible to use multiplexing to get more but you are normaly limited to 8 per scanline.More , if you use all the sprites to add to background , you will not have more for the game objects.

[MacDeath]

Yeah, the problem with software Sprites on C64 is ... C64 is a character attribute machine... just like good old speccy.

the Hardware sprites were a convenient way to deal with colour clashes...
as on MSX1 perhaps.

And the so powerfull speccy had nothing to deal with it, but getting monochromatic graphics only....

So Software sprite would simply show what C64 really is : a 65xx based speccy.

BTW C64 was happy that its sprites enabled  good multiplexing facilities... That's what saved it.

Atari 8 bit were quite good but the graphics were simply too odd.
Most games are like mode3 of the CPC... a 160x200x4...sort of.