the first month of 2011 already at half way and am wondering what sort of projects will be undertaken this year for the cpc.
I have seen sub hunter on the psytronik site and screens look very nice hope the game play is good too. The screen shots look very familiar - p-47 perhaps ?
http://www.psytronik.net/main/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86:subhuntercpc&catid=41:cpc&Itemid=63 (http://www.psytronik.net/main/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86:subhuntercpc&catid=41:cpc&Itemid=63)
My new year's resolution is to learn programming and rewrite codename mat.
I'm not good at keeping resolutions but maybe you'll get it for christmas.
Looking really great, Sub Hunter... really looking forward to buying it.
From my part, my resolution is to make the wiki more stable and, hopefully, successful...
You mean more sucessful, no? :P
Successfull ? as in getting a lot of money from advertisments ? ::)
or Sucks full ? ;D
Well to me it may be a heavy year if I can get Half what I want done...
=working on the way to get an Arduino Mega1280 usefull as an extension port peripheral...(like additionnal AYpsg or internet or whatever...)
=learning to code (in order to get this arduino working)coding..
=getting an Amstrad6128+ surfing on the Internet...
=getting Bloxorz clone done.
=having sexual intercourses on a regular basis.
=Nespresso...what else ?
Nespresso... I'd never tie myself to a proprietary machine...
wow looks like a good year ahead for a cpc'er -
bubble bobble remake
r - type remake
sub hunter
possible codename mat remake
cant wait :)
resolutions i never make em....... i always break em........ i hope someone bombs (manure) man united :-*
Resolution? Resolution? Release... ah, yes... FutureSoft will release "A Tribute to the Sisters" in 2011 - for sure ;)
Hello,
Don't forget "Uwol", that's a promising game too :-). And I think other programs will be released this year, as many guys are more working on games than on demos.
T&j/GPA
don't forget either that SyX and Dadman are working on King's valley 1 and 2 cpc conversions, hopefully (and almost sure) they will be ready for this year as well
Quote from: TomEtJerry on 09:25, 16 January 11Don't forget "Uwol", that's a promising game too
+1 this one seems very promising too !
Quote from: fano on 12:57, 16 January 11
+1 this one seems very promising too !
+5 in the case of R-Type 128Kb ;) +100 if the physical version includes the MSX cover (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/KRYCEK/DSCN2861.jpg)
But if i can dream about i would like for the CPC in this year... get some free time to think about:
1.- How overlay (or superimpose) the cpc video signal with the signal of mpg4 video decoder (with an usb pendrive to storage the videos) and make a port of Dragon's Lair and other arcade and MSX (http://www.illusionware.it/msx%20LD.html) LaserDisc.
2.- Make a Bee (http://www.retrogames.co.uk/more/on/details/021386) Card (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeeCard) adaptor (http://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_msx-msx2_1072178_s30) for the CPC and say good bye to tapes and disks 8)
Quote from: cpc4eva on 05:00, 15 January 11
the first month of 2011 already at half way and am wondering what sort of projects will be undertaken this year for the cpc.
I am working on a game. I started it before Christmas, and it's around 60% complete. There will be a version for cpc and for +.
Give it a few more months before I can release it ;)
btw, again this will be a free game to download.
EDIT: No source this time ;)
@trocoloco: ????!?
@arnoldemu: wouldn't mind buying it, mind you... :)
Hey syx, one more post and you'll get rid of your lame Speccy for a powerfull CPC464...
Keep up the good work mate... ;D
Quote from: MacDeath on 18:24, 16 January 11
Hey syx, one more post and you'll get rid of your lame Speccy for a powerfull CPC464...
Well, in that case
Bye Bye Sperrium!!! :laugh: (Note: Speccy + spanish word of dog + suffix 'um' to look latin and sound 'ye olde' :P )
Quote from: MacDeath on 18:24, 16 January 11
Keep up the good work mate... ;D
You know, always a lot of ideas about classic games with a bit of hardware, how a breakout clone with a paddle... C'est mon truc pour rendre le tout plus agréable au goût (google help me to said that :D )
Quotesuffix 'um' to look latin and sound 'ye olde'
like... cough... rectum... cough...? :laugh:
I've got a few:
1: To get this beat em up game made.
2: Start planning heavily animated, side view smooth pixel scrolling 128KB football game.
Football is not a sport that a like very much and I dont play the games, but animating diving headers, bicycle kicks, heel flicks and other footy skills would be good fun!
...and I must get a 6128 PLUS to play R-Type...
Quote from: sigh on 20:48, 16 January 11
I've got a few:
1: To get this beat em up game made.
2: Start planning heavily animated, side view smooth pixel scrolling 128KB football game.
Football is not a sport that a like very much and I dont play the games, but animating diving headers, bicycle kicks, heel flicks and other footy skills would be good fun!
...and I must get a 6128 PLUS to play R-Type...
wow sounds fun
maybe have a go at a microprose soccer 6128+ remake with larger screen size coloured sprites, better goalie contol and some extra features ????
Quote from: Gryzor on 18:12, 16 January 11
@trocoloco: ??? ?!?
remember this post ? http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,1393.msg13967.html#msg13967
to be honest I don't know how is doing lately this project, but I guess they are very busy with uwol atm and other things too.
Soxer ? why not speedball instead ?
Football is for quiche eaters... :P
Still, it'd be very refreshing to see a new sports game... :)
Turkey shooting?
Even that. Oh, and also someone create a light gun :)
On the hardware side, priority No. 1 is to get the MegaFlash finished. Then there's a whole list of other hardware projects which won't all happen in 2011 :( Other plans include: A DKtronics Speech Synth clone (without needing an SPO256), an Ethernet Port and then I might look at doing a lightgun ;) But there's a bigger Project happening in the Background, which might slow down all other projects this year ;)
@MacDeath: Aren't owning an Nespresso Machine and having regular sex mutually exclusive events? :D
Bryce.
P.s. I really like Quiche.
Quote from: Bryce on 09:56, 18 January 11
@MacDeath: Aren't owning an Nespresso Machine and having regular sex mutually exclusive events? :D
Bryce.
P.s. I really like Quiche.
Nice.
I almost spat out my morning tea onto my plate of cakes for laughing then.
Thankfully I had my finest china stabilised by sticking out my little finger. :laugh:
Quote from: arnoldemu on 17:59, 16 January 11
...
EDIT: No source this time ;)
So... you're creating real serious source from scratch... that's promising... I'm looking forward to this project.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 17:55, 18 January 11
So... you're creating real serious source from scratch... that's promising... I'm looking forward to this project.
hmmm...
maybe I should say "no source code released" this time.
One day, in the not too distant future... someone will convert or programme from scratch Outrun on the CPC as it should have been (SCREW YOU USGOLD). Then I'll be forever happy. In the mean time, c'mon R-Type remake!!!
QuoteAren't owning an Nespresso Machine and having regular sex mutually exclusive events?
Don't know... Ask Gearges Cloowney and Jhon Malkovitch...
BTW I don't own Nespresso system lol...
My good old hand-Bodum is enough.
Also the complain about sports game is not that bad.
That's true the sceners don't do sports games.
What do we have ?
-Platformers : Rick128 ... Mojon...
-Puzzlers : Color Lines...etc... good because no need of fancy scroolers or sprites.
-Shooters : Dead on Sabre...
So yeah a Curling game would be just too fine...
But yeah some Football or Car game would be great.
Football :
=often need scrollings.
=shittons of sprites...
=multiplayer or good artificial intelligence...
=ouch.
Car races :
= the false 3D trick is quite hard to do properly.
=good amount of sprites.
Perhaps analizing Burning rubber... and get it into a proper CarRace PLUS game like outrun in 128K RAM ?
Or just trying a 128K Ram car game...
But to be fair normal Sports games are boring...
I prefer when you can kill opponents...
So a SpeedBall/Disc/Fire and Forget game is better to me.
Perhaps an adaptation of Dos version's BloodBowl ?
Quote from: MacDeath on 07:43, 19 January 11
Football :
=often need scrollings.
=shittons of sprites...
=multiplayer or good artificial intelligence...
=ouch.
Car races :
= the false 3D trick is quite hard to do properly.
=good amount of sprites.
Perhaps analizing Burning rubber... and get it into a proper CarRace PLUS game like outrun in 128K RAM ?
Or just trying a 128K Ram car game...
But to be fair normal Sports games are boring...
I prefer when you can kill opponents...
So a SpeedBall/Disc/Fire and Forget game is better to me.
Perhaps an adaptation of Dos version's BloodBowl ?
Sprite wise for car games, not that much is needed. The feeling of speed is probably the only thing to worry about - and that's a programming thing. You'll just need car turning animations, car zooming, car tilting for hills and jumps, plus 1 or 2 crashes. (If the cars look all the same then it's even less work.) Tell you what though - you've just given me another thing to put on my list! Outrun CPC128K seems like a sensible start.....
Regarding football games - yeah, scrolling, AI and sprites. Like I said, I don't much like football (don't play much racing games either) but I think the challenges would be far more interesting. Speedball is the only futuristic game which I like - but then again, isn't it just a super powered version of handball?
Handball, are there any Handball game ? if only germanguys could more into gamedesign instead of Hardware and prowares.... at the time...
Quote from: ukmarkh on 02:46, 19 January 11
One day, in the not too distant future... someone will convert or programme from scratch Outrun on the CPC as it should have been (SCREW YOU USGOLD). Then I'll be forever happy. In the mean time, c'mon R-Type remake!!!
Amen man. Though I loved even the much-bashed port, I'd really love to see it even with just a tune added.
Quote from: MacDeath on 15:37, 19 January 11
Handball, are there any Handball game ? if only germanguys could more into gamedesign instead of Hardware and prowares.... at the time...
Well, the only one (in Germany)[nb]Disregarding currently inaktive hardware developpers[/nb] who is capable of creating hardware is Bryce, but ok, he creates that much - it would be enough for a bunch of guys ;-)
But seriously, he is the only one, all others do software.
Quote from: MacDeath on 22:46, 16 January 11
Soxer ? why not speedball instead ?
Football is for quiche eaters... :P
im not big on quiche too much egg ?
i asked for speedball cpc remake last year no takers - 2011 could be the year you never know
Quote from: ukmarkh on 02:46, 19 January 11
One day, in the not too distant future... someone will convert or programme from scratch Outrun on the CPC as it should have been (SCREW YOU USGOLD). Then I'll be forever happy. In the mean time, c'mon R-Type remake!!!
here here :)
in meantime come on r-type cpc remake looks brill at this stage :)
with r-type being remade i always wanted to see I.O. on cpc
Quote from: sigh on 20:48, 16 January 11
2: Start planning heavily animated, side view smooth pixel scrolling 128KB football game.
WOW! YES yes yes please!!!!
It's been a dream to have a truly decent footie game for the Amstrad of mine for so long. Sorry Emlyn Hughes/Italy 1990/etc fans ... as good as some of them are they're still pretty pants games. I had high hopes for Microprose Soccer as the C64 original was brilliant, the Amstrad version fell way short.
Some of you may remember mid last year I took a look at all the Amstrad football games, whilst it was fun to do it was depressing how crap most of them were, surely the Amstrad can do much better! Anyway for anyone that wants to go through them all -
But pleeeeaassseeee..........
If sigh or someone does do a soccer game please base it on Tecmo's classic World Cup 90 game -
Or take some inspiration from Football Champ with it's crazy fouls and moves! -
I remember a futuristic and violent Football (=soccer, not handhegg...) with Cyborgs as players...
It was a side soccer and an awesome one too.
This would be kool too.
Sucker Brawl
I think....
oh course there is always room for naked cheerleaders from futur... (Gynoid perhaps ?)
Quote from: Xyphoe on 23:48, 22 January 11
But pleeeeaassseeee..........
If sigh or someone does do a soccer game please base it on Tecmo's classic World Cup 90 game -
I think that would be too much of an ask, but I think it would be possible to do a decent version of Kick Off (1 or 2) for the CPC (especially the Plus).
Well I got in mind a game that used the AY-3-8910A chip for sound and I'm sure that many of us since we were kids would have loved to play a RIGHT and PROPER version on our beloved CPC of the best football arcade game ever, and that's gotta be........
Tehkan World Cup of course! 8)
Well, has to become a bit harder cause i recall playing it for hours with only a coin.
Quote from: redbox on 09:02, 23 January 11
I think that would be too much of an ask, but I think it would be possible to do a decent version of Kick Off (1 or 2) for the CPC (especially the Plus).
From an animation/art and control scheme point of view, it would be incredibly simple (far simpler than a beat em up) as it's just one type of character with lots of moves using the fire button, double taps etc to execute those moves. But it would definitely be a programming nightmare trying to get a number of sprites on screen at the same time, A.I, the goal keeper, scrolling etc.
I must admit to never being a fan of top down football games. They just never felt right as I could never really keep track of what was going on and just felt like I was pinballing my way through the playing field.
@macdeath: Dont like that game at all! ;D
If anyone is looking for a programming challenge, they might try to recreate the original football game which, if memory serves had the goal areas either half a mile or three miles apart, I'm not sure which, and there were hundreds of players in the game.
Quote from: steve on 16:04, 23 January 11
If anyone is looking for a programming challenge, they might try to recreate the original football game which, if memory serves had the goal areas either half a mile or three miles apart, I'm not sure which, and there were hundreds of players in the game.
you are talking about tehkan world cup on which you could score from almost your house and in the 5,6 and 7th rounds about 200 players are running behind you trying to get the ball
Only one footy game should ever be considered for the CPC... Sensible Soccer. Screw Kick-Off and that other tripe mentioned earlier. ;)
Oooooh now! KO beat the pants off SC!
(let the flame begin)
I always preferred KO (well KO2 anyway). Depends on what you played at the time I guess... 8)
(http://whiteafrican.com/wp-content/FLAMEWAR.gif)
Flamewar? You like one? Ok! Let's got for it! Fuck the c64! Offensive comments welcome!
Quote from: TFM/FS on 21:33, 25 January 11
Flamewar? You like one? Ok! Let's got for it! Fuck the c64! Offensive comments welcome!
There's always one that lowers the tone. Tut tut
Quote from: ukmarkh on 23:20, 25 January 11
There's always one that lowers the tone. Tut tut
Meep, Meep... Roadrunner on the run...
Is it me or is the C64 palette unfit for good looking games ?
Also C64 graphicians should learn for once that they try too hard coloured gradiants in 9 levels but mix every thing with greys... this is not a proper colour gradient...
(http://www.protovision-online.de/games/newcomer/intro-2.png)
brown+"red"+grey ? urk...
:P
Normal , palette of downgraded NES is made of shades of grey :laugh:
About ingame GFX , i must admit i do not like a lot 3 colors sprites :-X
(More seriously , you know well it is possible to do nice GFX with this awfull palette , we must congratulate people that did theses GFX :angel: )
Nice to see a "flame war" always descends into C64 bashing ;)
The one thing they do have is amazing demos being written, can't knock the machine for that.
Quote from: redbox on 10:19, 26 January 11
Nice to see a "flame war" always descends into C64 bashing ;)
The one thing they do have is amazing demos being written, can't knock the machine for that.
what is wrong with amstrad cpc's amazing(scratch amazing, insert brilliant) demos ????
Quote from: cpc4eva on 10:26, 26 January 11
what is wrong with amstrad cpc's amazing(scratch amazing, insert brilliant) demos ??? ?
Nothing. I've just seen better on the C64 of late.
The C64 craps all over the Amstrad and speccy... doesn't mean I don't love my CPC ;)
Quote from: ukmarkh on 14:16, 26 January 11
The C64 craps all over the Amstrad and speccy... doesn't mean I don't love my CPC ;)
no f****ng way man, great sound but totally crappy washed out colours
Quote from: trocoloco on 17:12, 26 January 11
no f****ng way man, great sound but totally crappy washed out colours
im with you trocoloco :)
washed out colours and according to wikipedia the c64's gfx were:
a VIC-II gfx chip (320 × 200, 16 colors, sprites,raster interrupt)come on ukmark the cpc had loads more colours and the quality of colour shading is so much better on a cpc.
and that dreaded c64 - 1541 disk drive was clunky noisy and slow as a cpc's tape drive....
:P
Quote from: ukmarkh on 14:16, 26 January 11The C64 craps all over the Amstrad and speccy...
In terms of scrolling and sprites smoothness for sure , SID sound is good too.But graphically speaking , no way , 3 colors sprites are awfull like dual playfield on CPC.For domains where VIC-II is useless (like true 3D) , C64 is not better than the Spectrum :laugh:
Well I've certainly stirred up a hornets nest here. The scrolling on the C64 is amazing for the time, and the SID chip is much better than good. For its time it was unbelieveable. It's silly to go on about it graphics, especially when everything looked and moved as smooth as a babies arse. And let's not forget when it was released. What I will say is that I love the CPC... and always will. Yes the graphics look better on the CPC, more vibrant and colourful. But to suggest it is a better machine just because of this one strength... is bending the truth a little. The problem with me is that I fell in love with the CPC tech, and it left me blinkererd. Let's forget about what machine is the best, and celebrate all the good memories and things the CPC has brought us. Who cares anyway, I mean really ;)
Hey, hey, hey... about this flamewar thing... ehm... I've been only joking :angel:
I mean, we all know that the c64 is crap compared to the CPC, therefore I mentioned this example.
So let me introduce the TFM rule: "If there ever is a flamewar, it will end up with CPC against c64."
Proove me wrong and have a great evening ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: ukmarkh on 22:29, 26 January 11
Well I've certainly stirred up a hornets nest here. The scrolling on the C64 is amazing for the time, and the SID chip is much better than good. For its time it was unbelieveable. It's silly to go on about it graphics, especially when everything looked and moved as smooth as a babies arse. And let's not forget when it was released. What I will say is that I love the CPC... and always will. Yes the graphics look better on the CPC, more vibrant and colourful. But to suggest it is a better machine just because of this one strength... is bending the truth a little. The problem with me is that I fell in love with the CPC tech, and it left me blinkererd. Let's forget about what machine is the best, and celebrate all the good memories and things the CPC has brought us. Who cares anyway, I mean really ;)
I do understand what you are saying.
Yes the scrolling is smoother, yes the sound is better.
But same here, I love the cpc too and will continue to release games and with each game released I try to do something more.
I think the important thing, for me anyway, is to continue to enjoy it and to release games.
Keep the cpc alive, and in 2011, we will do just that again!
[Peers out from behind the sofa]
Is it safe to come out again...?
I really like both machines. My friend had the C64 and myself the CPC464. He was always wowed by the graphics on CPC, and me in awe of sound and scrolling of the C64. However - Amstrad will always be my first point of call for 8 bit development.
BTW this is nota real debate.
22million unit sold can't be that wrong.
Of course C64 is superior in many way but palette compaired to CPC.
Anyway it is always fun to argue despite this just because my first computer was a CPC and not a C64.
Also because of C64fanboyz telling that bacause it has a simple PSG AY and no Hardware support the CPC is a humble piece of shit...
Even speccyFans are bitching us with their Graphicall shitfest (they should buy new eyes that enable to see colours...)
Just because the speccy can run a badly optimized codes with a little more speed than a CPC...
Well of course if having 2 colours or colour clashes is not a deal with you, I'm ok...
Can a game be considered playable whit that much colour clashes ?
To me it is not.
ex : Rick Dangerous may be smooth on speccy... the sprite merging with the background "colour" is not what I call playability.
CPC can at least pretend to be a speccy as so many games runing on it are actually speccy games.
Also there used to be Speccy emulators on CPC...
I dare Speccy to run a CPC emulator.
So yeah it is always fun to pretend... and CPC is such a well rounded machine that it can't be the piece of shit all those pretend it is.a CPC61287 or a 6128Plus can really show great stuff, it is all that count.
Anyway, Samcoupé and enterprise128 are clearly the superiorest of the cream of the 8 bit...(OMG a built-in joystick ? this is so awesome... :laugh: )
And MSX3++MaxiTurboXXL R perhaps... but is it really an 8 bit computer ?
So to me :
Speccy could have been great if it could display 2 kind of planes... I mean Backgrounds and foregrounds, with masked stuff...
Even in 1bit colours... this would be so kool.
But it didn't.
C64 would have been so perfect with a 32 colour full custom palette.
CPC would have been perfect if it was really designed to be 128K from the start (to me the real deal with CPC)...
or even got +5 custom colours in its palette (+2 greys... and perhaps 2 brown.. and 1 very Dark green ? or an additional dark orange ?... something like that)
or perhaps just get a few Hardware scrollings or Raster interrupt facilities (would have ease those many speccy ports with useless rasters...)
The PLUS did... but it was 2-3 years too late.
The 6128PLUS is the best CPC ever.
Is anyone planning on creating some sort of racing game for 2011? Chase HQ smoothness - but even smoother? I remember a game called SuperCycle on the CPC and I'm quite sure that it was one of the most smoothest I had seen.
Still off-topic, but at least not flame-inducing: the other night my girl played Chase HQ for the first time. I told her, "*now* you'll recognise something!". That 'something' was the quote "Let's go Mr Driver!" that I always use when I start the engine!!!
Quote from: sigh on 15:56, 27 January 11
Is anyone planning on creating some sort of racing game for 2011? Chase HQ smoothness - but even smoother? I remember a game called SuperCycle on the CPC and I'm quite sure that it was one of the most smoothest I had seen.
Super Cycle is still a great racing game. It´s one of the games I play on CPC from time to time. And it also was (at least a little bit) responsible that I made a license for motobikes some years later.
Quote from: MacDeath on 13:22, 27 January 11
22million unit sold can't be that wrong.
They can ... and they are. Most of the people are just stupid, follow the advertisments and buy what others tell them. Only few people on this planet (and on others) are really smart, they bought a CPC!
Quote from: MacDeath on 13:22, 27 January 11
Of course C64 is superior in many way but palette compaired to CPC.
Where please is the c64 superior???
The CPC has a 4 MHz CPU, the c64 hat 0.9 MHz (not even 1!!!).
The AY of the CPC has three channels, so you have stereo. The SID is mono only!!!
The CPC has native 640 * 200 high resolution, the c64 just 320*200.
The BASIC of the CPC is way superior to the poor c64 BASIC which lacks commands like: MODE, CLS, INK, PEN, SOUND and dozends more!!!
The scrolling of the CPC is at least as good as the c64 scrolling, for example look at: Trantor, Mission Genocide, Tornado Low Level, (even my own games...). Hovever I must admit that only few people used the mega-fast scrolling features of the CPC.
Further the CPC can have real overscan. Now look at Starglider or Driller on CPC then on c64. Not one more word needed to say.
Ok, the c64 has hardware sprites... pffff. Ok, one point for that German crap!!!
But if I look at the worn out colors of the c64, I have to throw out :'(
Quote from: MacDeath on 13:22, 27 January 11
Just because the speccy can run a badly optimized codes with a little more speed than a CPC...
Ehhh.... if I optimeze code for the CPC then it runs more quick (not only a bit) than on poor spectrum.
Quote from: TMR on 10:48, 27 January 11
[Peers out from behind the sofa]
Is it safe to come out again...?
LOL!
Nah, I think you might want to stay there a little while longer whilst we get it out our system :laugh:
Typical scene of the 80's :
Christmas 1984...
=My son, we decided to buy you the computer you asked us... this is for your future so we had a loan to get you the best we could.
=Oh Dad and mom that's so cool...
(opening the box)
Yeah, a C64 !!!
=(you'll be an enginer my son and I'm proud of you...my son)
=But... Dad... Mom... I can't do shit with this, I have no Datastorage nor Monitor...
=What ? you little piece of shit, we took a 10 year loan with your mother to get you this scrappy stuff and you even want more ?
Next Week :
=Mom can I use the TV ?
=Again ? you won't do anything young boy, I have to watch Dallas...
=But mooooom....
(slap!!! slap slap !!!)
Next year :
=What ? you lazy boy, we bleed ourselves to death to give your a ticket for the future and you spend all your time playing this stupid thing with this awnfull bleeping sounds and this music is getting on my nerves and ebleed my ears...
=But Daaaaad... I don'yt understand nothing with this shitty Basic....
=slap...slapp...
(The boy became a butthurt Mac-user hipster. He is a jobless DJ who pretend to be a musical genius but can't do shit with any instrument... and no girl likes him.)
somewhere else in France :
(translated for easier experience)
=Kool, a complete CPC6128... thx mom and Dad...
=Your welcomed my son, and we can stilll eat foie-gras and watch TV...
=Hey this Basic is top notch, let's try to code something...
happy family...
(the CPC boy became a Graphist and currently work at UbiSoft in Lyon... and he get a lot of hot girls in addition to his regular wife. He even had a good shot with Jade Raymond, while drunk in Montréal...)
No speccy was hurt in the process.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 14:16, 26 January 11
The C64 craps all over the Amstrad and speccy... doesn't mean I don't love my CPC ;)
Anyway... first thought that springs to mind is "Oh no not this again!!" :laugh:
Too many variables and things to look at and consider to say 'which is better'.
It's tougher to argue the Amstrad is a better 'games machine' than the C64 .... but I think it's a better 'all round' computer generally eg for business purposes etc if I was pressed for an opinion.
<edited this as I dont want to contribute to some silly argument that could escalate>
CPC vs C64 = PC vs Amiga.
It's typically the same scheme :
C64 and Amiga got less powerfull CPU and restricted color display.
But, both own specific hardware to handle scrolling and displaying "sprites" for doing smooth 2D games.
CPC and PC are versatile ; more flexible, not limited by using specific hardcoded effects.
Using more memory, CPU power and some tricks, they can compensate lacks.
C64 and Amiga are the best computers for doing ... Demo. :|
Showing upstanding stuff you can do with the hardware ... But can't fully be used in-game. "super".
CPC and PC can produce ritch and innovating games if you get out your fingers.
You are not limited by hardware stuff, but by your imagination !
Lets free to make your game specifics sprites and render engine.
It's why PC won, because 3D games can't be done using Amiga specific hardware.
CPC "lose", because it was mostly used as a degraded Speccy ... That all.
In all cases, many people get fun with those computers ! :)
Quote from: Xyphoe on 02:40, 28 January 11
LOL!
Nah, I think you might want to stay there a little while longer whilst we get it out our system :laugh:
Seriously... some of what is being said here is just so factually inaccurate i'm
really having to bite my tongue!
Quote from: TMR on 11:32, 28 January 11
Seriously... some of what is being said here is just so factually inaccurate i'm really having to bite my tongue!
don't. perhaps we need a wake up call?
Quote from: arnoldemu on 11:54, 28 January 11
don't. perhaps we need a wake up call?
No, y'see it's not about wake up calls or anything like that... nah, i'll keep my head down and come back when it's all blown over.
Quote from: TMR on 12:06, 28 January 11
No, y'see it's not about wake up calls or anything like that... nah, i'll keep my head down and come back when it's all blown over.
Well I know that your main expertise, but correct me if I am wrong, is the c64.
But you have a very keen interest in other computers and their scenes, and you like to see new releases on all machines.
I try to also look at other scenes, and see what is going on there.
I appreciate what is done and see what can be done for the cpc.
I think input from someone outside of the cpc can be very helpful.
I'm not going to go into a flame war, to me your a respected person from another scene, who is taking an interest in our scene.. and that is a good thing.
Quote from: TMR on 12:06, 28 January 11
No, y'see it's not about wake up calls or anything like that... nah, i'll keep my head down and come back when it's all blown over.
mention of the colour palette has raised alot of other things - just some fun, people having their say as i see it - don't take things too seriously tmr. have your say dude :) ;)
Quote from: TMR on 12:06, 28 January 11
No, y'see it's not about wake up calls or anything like that... nah, i'll keep my head down and come back when it's all blown over.
I too would be interested. It would be nice to learn more and expand.
Edit: But were really going off topic here!
So; anything else not mentioned or things that people are working on that we can look forward to for 2011? Any PLUS games?
QuoteCPC vs C64 = PC vs Amiga.
No!!!
CPC vs C64 = AtariST vs Amiga.
No, because ST do not have CPU power to compensate.
Quote from: MacDeath on 17:19, 28 January 11
No!!!
CPC vs C64 = AtariST vs Amiga.
Noooo!!! (CPC has a way more powerful CPU, whereas ST and amiga share the same cpu without I/O instructions). ...
But I did like your X-Mas story very very much and... Jade Raymond seems to be really cute ;-)
Quote from: MacDeath on 17:19, 28 January 11
No!!!
CPC vs C64 = AtariST vs Amiga.
I don't think , difference between CPC and C64 doesn't seem so large (technicaly speaking , ST seems to be far from Amiga).That seems to be more difficult to take full advantage of the CPC hardware too , i think there are a still a lot of things to do in terms of games on CPC.
To be honest , C64 smoothness is admirable but has a price , look at C64 game sprites and ingame graphics.Take a look after on CPC how graphics can be detailled (I think we can find a lot of games with theses types of graphics on CPC)
Quote from: fano on 19:14, 28 January 11
I don't think , difference between CPC and C64 doesn't seem so large (technicaly speaking , ST seems to be far from Amiga).That seems to be more difficult to take full advantage of the CPC hardware too , i think there are a still a lot of things to do in terms of games on CPC.
To be honest , C64 smoothness is admirable but has a price , look at C64 game sprites and ingame graphics.Take a look after on CPC how graphics can be detailled (I think we can find a lot of games with theses types of graphics on CPC)
lets put some pictures up and compare screens - can someone tell me how, macdeath maybe? your always posting pics on here :)
on topic - cpc r- type remake had over 2000 views last time i looked on you tube id say this will be the cpc standout for the year....
anyone interested in remaking old atari 2600 games to a cpc plus ???
or make a cpc + version of that facebook game bejewelled i really hate how you only have a minute :(
Quote from: cpc4eva on 20:54, 28 January 11
or make a cpc + version of that facebook game bejewelled i really hate how you only have a minute :(
Isn't there a CPC version already?
Not sure... take just Betiled! Great fun!
Quote from: cpc4eva on 20:54, 28 January 11lets put some pictures up and compare screens - can someone tell me how, macdeath maybe? your always posting pics on here
I am not a fan of picture or video posting as that makes long and difficult to read posts (especially when you run on a PIV1.6Ghz like me) , but theses are few CPC games (and there are a lot like this) with what i mean in terms of graphics :
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=144 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=144)
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=146 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=146)
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=2 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=2)
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=130 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=130)
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1880 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1880)
I didn't check but i think you can find C64 versions around the web if you really want to compare.
Note my point is not to say CPC is better than C64 but to show things are not so "clear" as C64 fans would say.
thanks for those great links Fano
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/threads/20018-Contra (http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/threads/20018-Contra)
i did a search for screens and came across this forum topic of contra - down the bottom people mention the c64, speccy and cpc versions of gryzor good read with screenshots :)
and this one was on retro gamer
http://www.retrogamer.net/show_image.php?imageID=1464&page=5 (http://www.retrogamer.net/show_image.php?imageID=1464&page=5)
i cant believe i still havnt played captain blood god that looks graphically stunning and savage well that was high class all the way
QuoteBut I did like your X-Mas story very very much and... Jade Raymond seems to be really cute ;-)
kool, at least someone noticed this fanfic wankery... ::)
Quotecan someone tell me how, macdeath maybe? your always posting pics on here
wellwellwell...
find a pic on the net...
rightclick and "display picture"...
then use insert image and copy past the address of said picture in it...
Exemple :
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=144 (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=144)
click on one of the picture you want with display picture (don't know in english what windows says...)
you get this address/page :
http://www.cpc-power.com/images/ecran_titre/144.png (http://www.cpc-power.com/images/ecran_titre/144.png)
so "insert image in the Forum post reply options (edition)... copy past... the picture address...
(http://www.cpc-power.com/images/ecran_titre/144.png)
(noob)
C64 shit...
(http://www.c64gg.com/Images/G/Gryzor.ss.gif)
CPC awesomness :
(http://www.cpc-power.com/images/ecran_jeu1/144.png)
;)
But another :
C64 : erf...
(http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/images/pepto.png)
CPC : kool !
(http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/images/cpc-pal.png)
There is nothing wrong with the C64 colours. It just depends on how you use them. It also heavily depends on the skill of the artist to be able to use the colours effectively. Weve all seen amstrad graphics that still look crap no matter what colours were used.
OMG, what did the c64 do to Gryzor, hurt the eyes ! ???
Quote from: TFM/FS on 20:58, 28 January 11
Isn't there a CPC version already?
Not sure... take just Betiled! Great fun!
What about Swap
Quote from: TMR on 11:32, 28 January 11
Seriously... some of what is being said here is just so factually inaccurate i'm really having to bite my tongue!
Nah go for it, I mean you'll find us a really friendly bunch - passionate yes - but if you present negative thoughts about the CPC or positive about the C64 as long as it's fair and accurate then I really dont think anyone will object. It'll be interesting to see and read personally. On certain other forums for the other machines I wouldn't recommend it tho! :laugh:
Anyway, at the end of the day it comes down to what your *favourite* machine is, not the best.
Quote from: sigh on 01:03, 29 January 11There is nothing wrong with the C64 colours. It just depends on how you use them. It also heavily depends on the skill of the artist to be able to use the colours effectively. Weve all seen amstrad graphics that still look crap no matter what colours were used.
You are right , C64 colors seems "washed" for someone used to see CPC palette but it is possible to make great graphics with C64 palette too.
btw , I'd be curious to see games like Mayhem in Monsterland with CPC palette and without C64 graphics limitations.I am pretty sure it would fit greatly on the game style.
Quote from: sigh on 01:03, 29 January 11
There is nothing wrong with the C64 colours. It just depends on how you use them.
Sure, if the artist use it for "wood + aluminum" or "soil + rock" styled pictures, there is nothing wrong...
You are only speaking about pictures, but C64 got a big in-game display limitation:
Hardware sprites can't use more than 3 colors... So you can't have "styled graphics", just flat colors.
Quote from: sigh on 01:03, 29 January 11Weve all seen amstrad graphics that still look crap no matter what colours were used.
Like you said: "It also depends on the artist skill"... And most CPC games use untouched spectrum and c64 graphics.
CPC uniform RGB color space (3*3*3) constraint gray scale to 3 values : black, gray, white.
(compensated with blue)So, it will never display the same styled C64 pictures. And vice versa.
In counterpart, CPC can display more colorful and polished in-game graphics... Gryzor is a great example.
If I may throw a spanner in the works, and I can only speak from a hardware point of view... I've developed hardware for CPC, Commodore, Spectrum, Atari, Apple, MSX, Enterprise and several others. And I always thought that the Atari 800XL was one of the best machines to work with. It had an ACID-free cartridge port, analogue inputs on the joystick port, the SIO port/protocol was really easy to interface to and (to get back to the core of this discussion) I thought the colours were great. Favourite game was Attack of the mutant camels.
That said, my favourite machine was still the CPC for the convenience of the integrated tape/disc and the monitor (all the others required getting access to the family TV) and the power of its BASIC.
Bryce.
P.s. I still own a C64, Speccy 48K and several Ataris, but the CPCs still get used the most.
Quote from: TotO on 09:07, 29 January 11
Sure, if the artist use it for "wood + aluminum" or "soil + rock" styled pictures, there is nothing wrong...
You are only speaking about pictures, but C64 got a big in-game display limitation:
Hardware sprites can't use more than 3 colors... So you can't have "styled graphics", just flat colors.
Like you said: "It also depends on the artist skill"... And most CPC games use untouched spectrum and c64 graphics.
CPC uniform RGB color space (3*3*3) constraint gray scale to 3 values : black, gray, white. (compensated with blue)
So, it will never display the same styled C64 pictures. And vice versa.
In counterpart, CPC can display more colorful and polished in-game graphics... Gryzor is a great example.
I'm sure that the C64 didn't have to use the hardware sprites and could operate the same way that the CPC uses sprites using clever programming, ram, cpu management etc?
But please correct me if I'm wrong.
3 colours is definitely a pain, but games like Double Dragon 2 has 4 coloured sprites so I'm not too sure if they were hardware or not. I did read somewhere that it's also possible to mix 2 colours together giving an illusion of more colours.
Yes, you can mix two lowres sprites to get up to 6 colors.
But you lose sprites for other usage.
May be, if you compute software sprites, you lose the hardware scrolling support.
Quote from: sigh on 13:25, 29 January 11I'm sure that the C64 didn't have to use the hardware sprites and could operate the same way that the CPC uses sprites using clever programming, ram, cpu management etc?
If C64 doesn't use the Hardware sprites , the problem is background rendering is cell (char) based with limited colors per cell.I don't think C64 is able to use Software rendering like CPC where you have no special restrictions.More , like on CPC+ , it is not trivial to render software sprites with hardware pixel scrolling.After , maybe there are tricks able to go through theses limitations and used in games (as we are speaking about games not demos)
Quote from: sigh on 13:25, 29 January 113 colours is definitely a pain, but games like Double Dragon 2 has 4 coloured sprites so I'm not too sure if they were hardware or not. I did read somewhere that it's also possible to mix 2 colours together giving an illusion of more colours.
What we see as one sprite can be several hardware sprites so if they own different palettes , it would be possible to use more to get more colors (as long it stays at 8 max per scanline)
Quote from: fano on 13:47, 29 January 11
If C64 doesn't use the Hardware sprites , the problem is background rendering is cell (char) based with limited colors per cell.I don't think C64 is able to use Software rendering like CPC where you have no special restrictions.
But if you were to use the sprites like how you use backdrop images (which are still sprites), then that wouldn't limit the colour?
Quote from: sigh on 15:26, 29 January 11
But if you were to use the sprites like how you use backdrop images (which are still sprites), then that wouldn't limit the colour?
That's different as background is a fixed array , you can not move a tile separatly.Sprites are limited to 8 , it is possible to use multiplexing to get more but you are normaly limited to 8 per scanline.More , if you use all the sprites to add to background , you will not have more for the game objects.
Yeah, the problem with software Sprites on C64 is ... C64 is a character attribute machine... just like good old speccy.
the Hardware sprites were a convenient way to deal with colour clashes...
as on MSX1 perhaps.
And the so powerfull speccy had nothing to deal with it, but getting monochromatic graphics only....
So Software sprite would simply show what C64 really is : a 65xx based speccy. :laugh:
BTW C64 was happy that its sprites enabled good multiplexing facilities... That's what saved it.
Atari 8 bit were quite good but the graphics were simply too odd.
Most games are like mode3 of the CPC... a 160x200x4...sort of.
Quote from: fano on 15:48, 29 January 11
That's different as background is a fixed array , you can not move a tile separatly.Sprites are limited to 8 , it is possible to use multiplexing to get more but you are normaly limited to 8 per scanline.More , if you use all the sprites to add to background , you will not have more for the game objects.
That's very interesting.
Oh... go on then although i can't help feeling i'm going to regret this... =-)
Quote from: TotO on 13:46, 29 January 11
Yes, you can mix two lowres sprites to get up to 6 colors.
Four colours total, each multicolour sprite has it's own unique colour register and shares two more with all the other sprites so those colours are a constant. The four colour objects noted previously are usually a monocolour sprite overlaid onto a multicolour one to give four colours and what appears to be a 1:1 aspect ratio.
Quote from: TotO on 13:46, 29 January 11
May be, if you compute software sprites, you lose the hardware scrolling support.
You may lose some of it's fineness (regardless of mode, the scrolling runs at 320x200 resolution so can move in half a multicolour pixel steps horizontally) but hardware scrolling on the C64 isn't coarse anyway so the scroll registers just offset the display by up to eight high res pixels before the CPU has to kick in and shuffle the actual data before the next cycle.
Running software sprites over a character-based display isn't really a problem, C16 games do it quite a bit and there's not a
massive difference in speed between the two so porting most of those games isn't difficult with a bit of modification (as i did with the C16 version of
Kikstart a few years back). But most C64 coders prefer using the hardware sprites and perhaps character-based bullets that just step between cells and are very quick to update.
Finally , we are talking of C64 , i can not remember where thread deviated :laugh:
Quote from: TMR on 19:15, 29 January 11Running software sprites over a character-based display isn't really a problem
Rendering itself , but you still have the problem of color clash until you share the same palette for the whole screen , or your sprites are non masked (like it is visible in R-Type and Katakis for example), or there is a solution (and i'd be curious to see how the problem has been solved)
4 colors by sprite w/o transparenty. 3 colors with.
If you want to mix sprites you have to see the second behind.
So you get 6 colors. (7 if the second don't have transparenty)
Quote from: Bryce on 12:20, 29 January 11
... Favourite game was Attack of the mutant camels.
Didn't know that game, but its really good done on Atari800! Some Links...
Atari:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXznbBA4nXU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXznbBA4nXU)
c64:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybzUgiE_vQM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybzUgiE_vQM)
Quote from: fano on 19:30, 29 January 11
Rendering itself , but you still have the problem of color clash until you share the same palette for the whole screen
Well, we're talking about character-based screen modes for scrolling so that's happening anyway; three shared colours and one selectable in each 4x8 pixel cell. It'll still clash if differently coloured objects try passing over each other yes, but it can be kept to a minimum with some forward planning and perhaps hardware sprites stepping in when two objects are going to cross.
Quote from: fano on 19:30, 29 January 11or your sprites are non masked (like it is visible in R-Type and Katakis for example)
To be honest, they're probably not masked for speed since C64 games of this nature
rarely drop below 50FPS on purpose, although most of the bullets in those two games are high resolution characters (the C64 can select 320x200 or 160x200 on a character by character basis) so they couldn't be merged into a multicolour background in the first place.
Despite it's age,
Uridium is one of the best examples of a good number of small software sprites passing over a character-based scrolling screen.
Quote from: TotO on 19:51, 29 January 11
4 colors by sprite w/o transparenty. 3 colors with.
If you want to mix sprites you have to see the second behind.
So you get 6 colors. (7 if the second don't have transparenty)
There's no option to disable transparency and no register to feed it with colour data even if there was; there are ten sprite colour registers in total, eight provide each sprite with it's own colour and the other two are the shared colours used by all sprites, so overlaying two sprites gets you two unique and two shared colours.
Ok, I have missunderstood.
Thank you for the explanation.
Thanks for the explanation , that's always good to know more about theses machines.So , finally , every extra color for "multi" sprite costs an extra sprite.
Quote from: TMR on 21:56, 29 January 11Despite it's age, Uridium is one of the best examples of a good number of small software sprites passing over a character-based scrolling screen.
It is a great game on C64.As that seems, they used the same colors for background and for shots to solve the problem.
That's a shame to see CPC version has been made from Spectrum as it should fairly better on a CPC if they worked from C64 :'(
If you give Uridium the time on the CPC... you'll discover one hell of a challenge, even despite the graphics. The C64 version blew me away though!
Its blatantly obvious the C64 was a better games machine than the 464, all-rounder is a different matter. I get the feeling that not every stone was left unturned on the CPC, and where's the C64 and Speccy had the better programmers and longer development time by and large (although not always the case). Programmers today are only now discovering how best to push the electrons through the CPC's microchips. I suppose you could say the same is still true for all 8-bits, but I just feel it is more so for the CPC.
Star Sabre and Orion Prime being fine examples, as well as the new R-Type remake. These projects just wouldn't have been given the time of day in the 80's. Possible yes; but probably wasn't worth it for the small return.
What I'm really interested in, is how the C128 compared with the CPC 6128? As the latter was the machine I grew up with.
Wait... are we wildly off-topic? Shall I split the thread? And what is the subject of the new one? :D
Quote from: Gryzor on 14:10, 31 January 11
Wait... are we wildly off-topic? Shall I split the thread? And what is the subject of the new one? :D
That's the great thing about a conversation such as this, it can be a birth place for another hundred threads.
Yes - also, that's the great thing about topics and subfora and organization - it keeps the entropy from spreading :D
I think you're probably going to have to create a permanent thread with the title "Place to argue whether C64 was better than CPC" and people can come back every few weeks and re-discuss the issue :D
Bryce.
QuoteProgrammers today are only now discovering how best to push the electrons through the CPC's microchips. I suppose you could say the same is still true for all 8-bits, but I just feel it is more so for the CPC.
No special tricks or magic stuffs for doing good games todays on CPC ... Only exclusive development (like Gryzor, Renegade, ...) and not more Speccy and C64 ports, like twenty years ago.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 14:08, 31 January 11
Its blatantly obvious the C64 was a better games machine than the 464, all-rounder is a different matter.
S'pose it depends on what you want to do with it; 40 columns aren't as good as 80 columns obviously, but the C64 can hold it's own for many jobs and saw all manner of serious applications up to and including a GUI released during the 1980's which some folk are still using even now.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 14:08, 31 January 11
What I'm really interested in, is how the C128 compared with the CPC 6128? As the latter was the machine I grew up with.
Ah, now i can help with that! =-)
Although only one can be used at a time, the C128 has two processors; an 8502 (a modified 6510) and a Z80A clocked at 0.98MHz and 2MHz respectively - there's also a "fast mode" which disables the 40 column display but doubles the clock speed of both CPUs and, since this feature is available from C64 mode, some games take advantage of it by switching up during the borders and back down for the display.
Two video displays are generated simultaneously, a standard VIC-II output which is identical to the C64 for almost any practical purpose and a 640x200 (or 640x400 with interlace) 80 column display which can be either bitmapped or character-based and offers the option of an attribute map to kick out a sixteen colour image; this second display is powered by the VDC chip and, although there's no sprites in this mode, hardware smooth scrolling is available, the origin point of the screen can be pointed anywhere in the dedicated display RAM and although i'm referring to it as 640x200/400 it can overscan to a degree as well.
There's a dedicated disk drive for the machine, the 1571 (or indeed the 1581, which is a 3.5" DS/DD drive) which is double sided and has a "burst mode" which moves very fast indeed and that and the Z80A gang up to give CP/M compatibility, in fact most programs for the at-the-time very popular Kaypro flavour of CP/M should be happy bunnies without modification.
Think that's everything...? =-)
@Bryce: now *that*'s an idea! I'm really tempted... :D
@Tot0: very valid argument...