8 Bit Wars 2

[1024MAK]

First, please let me be clear. None of the following is intended to taken as having a go at anyone. I am mearly trying to understand the events, the reasons and to give my thoughts on the situation by talking about it in what I consider to be a sensible manner.

Sending a PM is not the only way, and I don't see why it should've been private, to tell you the truth. There was spamming. I removed some of it. I also said it's not going to be welcomed in the future. Is this not reasonable?

Well, it does not have to be private. The point about using PM or email, is to try and bring the issue to the immediate attention of the member, rather than assuming he or she will find your post in the thread. So you could do both.

Without seeing the unaltered posts, I cannot really comment on them. Let alone determine if they were spam, or were unreasonable for some other reason. But it does sound strange if posts about a retro computer podcast that often includes Amstrad CPC machines is considered to be spam.


The definition of spam that I recognise is where unsolicited posts, mail, texts, etc are made which are only for commercial gain or sales, or where the information, pictures or other content has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject matter of the forum.


Mark

[Zoe Robinson]

The point about using PM or email, is to try and bring the issue to the immediate attention of the member, rather than assuming he or she will find your post in the thread. So you could do both.

The thread I saw where the problem was raised (not this thread, the other one) was a thread the problem person created. If they couldn't find comments on how their posts were a problem in their own thread then that is a definite sign of spamming.

[Puresox]

If we're going to have problems with every multi format or you tube channels , CPC is always going to keep getting stick from C64 and Speccy crowd . And with regard to Swainy needing us than us needing them , I would find that hard to believe , The Speccy and Commodore scene is far bigger than the CPC's. CPC could very easily be ignored , especially going on how the majority of attitudes are from C64 and Spectrum world.
I didn't see the Spam which is being talked about , and I suppose if it had been pointed out in that thread and Swainy had been told it was an issue , I can't see him being unreasonable enough to ignore the warnings. I'd rather we get more publicity from these things than chase them all off.

[1024MAK]

The thread I saw where the problem was raised (not this thread, the other one) was a thread the problem person created. If they couldn't find comments on how their posts were a problem in their own thread then that is a definite sign of spamming.

Zoe, not everyone checks every forum that they are a member of every week, let alone every day.


Mark

[Zoe Robinson]

Zoe, not everyone checks every forum that they are a member of every week, let alone every day.

Yes, this is exactly what you should take from what I said. Well done. 

[1024MAK]

I don't think, should be verified, but BASIC and computers natively speak english... wasn't it a Microsoft Basic ?

BASIC 1.0 — Wikipédia


yeah, was in glitches... basically (pun) you had to keep the mnemonics in order to be "compatible" with 99% of computers from the market.

Even before Microsoft "helped out", the core instructions were heading towards becoming a kind of standard. As this was developed in the English speaking world, the keywords are English. In order for programs to run in any country, you of course have to use the correct spelling of the keywords and the correct syntax.


I remember at school writing out BASIC programs that were then sent off. A large computer somewhere then ran each program as a batch process. The line printer print-out was then returned to the school. Of course, syntax errors etc caused many of these small programs to fail 


Mark

[Puresox]

The reason I wondered , was the French are quite defensive of their fine  language and have fought to keep Americanisms out of the Countries language, amongst other things, so I wondered as it was a French  schooling Initiative whether this had been altered . thanks for the info anyhow.

[Puresox]

I also wondered if there was modifications in Paris's schools, where instead of getting'Syntax error' you would get 'Syntax Error you Imbecile'.But alas no

[1024MAK]

And quite right that they are defensive of their language 


However, in the engineering world, English is normally used. So it is not surprising that most keywords are English, or based on English. CPU mnemonics are also based loosely on English a lot of the time.


Can anyone think of any code that uses keywords or mnemonics that are not English / based on English?


Mark

[1024MAK]

Some computers sold in Spain (I think) at one time had to have the messages (like error messages) shown in Spanish.

Mark

[CraigsBar]

Some computers sold in Spain (I think) at one time had to have the messages (like error messages) shown in Spanish.

Mark

When Amstrad made the plus machines the RSX to call burning rubber is multilingual (|game, |jeux and |spiel I believe)

[MacDeath]

Please Please guys, let the Drama away.

quoi, nous ? défensifs sur notre belle langue ? non...


Concerning the use of French or whatever language in a computing language... Well, things like BASIC were already in existence for many years before the 80s and because you have to keep in continuity, you stay with the main specs of the thing.

Ok let's say you learn how to code in French with your Matra Alice... it doesn't teach you how to code on some huge IBM mainframe or any other supercomputer from Amstrad... that were dominating the market.

a simple Basic programm may often work on many different machines or even BASICs, with jsut minor adjustements for each different system or versions actually, unless you go too deep into the machine or too specific features (graphics, and so on).

having comparable displays, C64 and CPC can work in 160x200 or 320x200... while speccy cannot, and most colours or things have to account for the specific machine, but yeah.

I remember some magazines would give basic programms and small mods to do for different machines, with explanations, was quite nice to learn the different system and what stays the same despite this.

And basically having an Amstrad CPC really helped me to understand english betterly (because I could practice it a bit with some non translated games or those exotic sounding words from BASIC) and being able to post here... (yeah, a shame on mankind, damn you lord sugar !!!)
(warhammer and bloodbowl are also guilty...)

Can anyone think of any code that uses keywords or mnemonics that are not English / based on English?

English has it good in that it doesn't use accentuations while many other ones use them intensively...

Czech coding ? Greek ? Spanish ? Turk ? Polish-ed language ?
would need a lot of ç, à , ñ, õ, č,ý, ş  and øther things...

but yeah, let's code in Japanese... which alphabet ?



The "informatique pour tous" plan Wiki page explain that the plan was somewhat a failure because they tried too hard to get peopels to learn coding (ouch) and not just to use applications and basic computing use : how to load a program/application, use keyboard and user interface, plug the rigth thing in the right hole and so on...

all the thing I spend my whole days fixing with smankind's stupidity when confronted to any modern computer with an half eaten fruit branded on it.

Seriously, coding is a specialist job but to use any inteface is a basic thing...
to know that you musn't fill entirely you system disk, to know how to copy paste some files for one volume into another one...

or just read the freaking menu untill you find the properly obvious option for what is needed (and shut up while doing it!!!)...
or just read the first chapter of the fucking manual that is available on manufacturer's website...
or update things before it is too late, or wait for the new OS to have had a few updates before blindly upgrading into it on the very first hour of release, or read the freaking specs to check if all your very important pro applications are even compatible with this new OS version (yet or ever)

Or why didn't you backed up anything before this OS upgrade, and why even upgrading this OS with no backup while you have this very important work to release on monday, and why telling me that saturday at 18h00 ?


Sorry, my (stev)Jobs is killing my nerves.



on all of that, many amstrad computers were really so reliable and well rounded for their tasks... but the young snotling only think about arcade games.

But many of those that actually learnt to "use a computer" would agree that the CPC had many non game related advantge on the 8bit market.
really this long keyboard with arrows and numbers... not some rubbish rubber horror...

your today's keyboard is more like CPC's than Speccy's48 one... even Mac's simpler keyboard may feel like CPC's simpler one concerning character's layout.

[Puresox]

Chicklet keyboards have made a significant comeback as well I may add

[dodogildo]

Are the basic commands modified too French? Or have they utilised the English Basic?

It was English for God's sake..
But nobody would have been surprised back then, if they were modified into French

[Gryzor]

First, please let me be clear. None of the following is intended to taken as having a go at anyone.

Not an issue. I welcome dialogue and as long as it's done in a civilised manner, like you do, it's perfectly ok

I am mearly trying to understand the events, the reasons and to give my thoughts on the situation by talking about it in what I consider to be a sensible manner.Well, it does not have to be private. The point about using PM or email, is to try and bring the issue to the immediate attention of the member, rather than assuming he or she will find your post in the thread. So you could do both.

@Zoe picked this up (thanks Zoe!) - it was done in his own thread. If he doesn't see it, that's already part of the problem.


[/size]

Without seeing the unaltered posts, I cannot really comment on them. Let alone determine if they were spam, or were unreasonable for some other reason. But it does sound strange if posts about a retro computer podcast that often includes Amstrad CPC machines is considered to be spam.
The definition of spam that I recognise is where unsolicited posts, mail, texts, etc are made which are only for commercial gain or sales, or where the information, pictures or other content has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject matter of the forum.

It's more than that, actually. I understand the technical term for spam, but "spamming a forum" has a slightly different meaning. In this case we have a member who only drops by to announce his product (complete with sponsorships, actually) with ad-like text in hit-and-run attempts. And does that on other fora, as well (as a matter of fact I've been told we're not the only forum to be tired of this).


I don't mind promoting off-site content. I don't even mind non-CPC related content, as the relevant section shows. But doing *only* that, dozens of times, with no further forum involvement, tends to test my patience and the limits of what acceptable behavior is.

[Gryzor]

I didn't see the Spam which is being talked about , and I suppose if it had been pointed out in that thread and Swainy had been told it was an issue , I can't see him being unreasonable enough to ignore the warnings. I'd rather we get more publicity from these things than chase them all off.

I don't see any publicity, but I'm not one to ignore the need for it anyhow.


As far as Swainy goes, I agree - I don't think he's unreasonable and that's why I didn't just delete all the posts and ban the account. I chose the middle way.

[Gryzor]

It was English for God's sake..
But nobody would have been surprised back then, if they were modified into French

I have a c64 tape somewhere that converts its BASIC to use Greek commands. It's hilarious

[Puresox]

I don't see any publicity, but I'm not one to ignore the need for it anyhow.


As far as Swainy goes, I agree - I don't think he's unreasonable and that's why I didn't just delete all the posts and ban the account. I chose the middle way.

The show goes out to a fair amount of listeners I should imagine , plenty of speccy guys, plenty of c64 fans , At least the guys on this show give the Amstrad a fair crack , how often will you see You tubers not even acknowledge the CPC, or even just speak about it like its a piece of crap. Most of the Speccy and C64 Fan boys , just switch off when it comes to the Amstrad. So when productions like this come along and  cut the machine a bit of slack and actually take the time to look into the gameplay , this can only do the CPC scene favours. That is what I mean by publicity , these things  help to change the impression. Plus the fact these guy's could easily think fuck you , and fill the games up with landslide victories for the C64  or Speccy and really show the machine up , which wouldn't be hard to do as we know , there are some awful ports out there . The overall production was pretty fair and there was only the odd bit of biased views, which were done by the CPC guy as much as the Speccy guy . Which is part of making the show entertaining I suppose.
  The amount of shows which have balanced views  is very small and will only get smaller if we snap at even the reasonable ones.

[TMR]

The overall production was pretty fair and there was only the odd bit of biased views, which were done by the CPC guy as much as the Speccy guy . Which is part of making the show entertaining I suppose.

Absolutely, there needs to be conflict otherwise it'd just be a bunch of people being nice at each other and where's the entertainment value in that? It happens with list shows like "the top ten games for [Platform]" as well, except it's usually in the comments with those as people duke it out to say which games they feel should be in the list.

The amount of shows which have balanced views  is very small and will only get smaller if we snap at even the reasonable ones.

Is now a good time to mention that sub heading of "No colour clashing! Play games in shades other than brown! Woo-hoo!" on this part of the forum again and how discouraging it is to someone not primarily an Amstrad fan...? =-)

[Gryzor]

Is now a good time to mention that sub heading of "No colour clashing! Play games in shades other than brown! Woo-hoo!" on this part of the forum again and how discouraging it is to someone not primarily an Amstrad fan...? =-)

...or those who thoroughly lack humour. Well, nobody needs those.

[1024MAK]

Is now the time to say that there is no chance of any colour clash in


Mark

[TMR]

...or those who thoroughly lack humour. Well, nobody needs those.

Some of the jokes made about the CPC elsewhere were done to be funny too, but i'm not sure the people here would agree... and the thing is, that "no colour clashing" line is basically hung "over the door" here and that can only be seen as encouraging jokes in return.

[reidrac]

Some of the jokes made about the CPC elsewhere were done to be funny too, but i'm not sure the people here would agree... and the thing is, that "no colour clashing" line is basically hung "over the door" here and that can only be seen as encouraging jokes in return.

I think you're probably right. I joined the forum recently and it didn't discourage me, but it was significant. Is this forum defining the CPC by picking on the rival systems of the time? I don't recall anything similar in WOS (for example, I don't know much about the C64).

I'm new to the CPC and I got one and I made a couple of games because the first 8-bit wars podcast of RA, and after that the CPC special, sparkled my curiosity (not that I like all RA podcasts, because they discus lots of retro systems and I'm not interested in all of them).

I'm starting to understand the strengths and the weaknesses of the system, and it is way more than "No colour clashing! Play games in shades other than brown! Woo-hoo!".

My two cents

[ivarf]

I just listened to the full podcast and for the next war I think they need another CPC user defending the system. Every time that there is a game that is bad on the Amstrad, Chris that should be pro Amstrad goes over the top talking about how bad the Amstrad version is. The other two never do that for their own system or the Amstrad.

He goes on about that the Amstrad can't scroll and that the games are slow and jerky.
Maybe someone from here could step in for the Amstrad on the next show?

[dcdrac]

I think it was Paul Shirley who showed how to scroll quickly on the CPC with Mission Genocide?