Carnivac's CPC pixels

[Carnivius]

Have increased the game screen area by 16 pixels because I wanted a bit of extra 'head room' for the characters when jumping about and such.  The total height of the game including game screen, border and status panel is now 200 pixels which I don't think should be much of a problem since it's flick screen anyways. 

Found another use for the wood tiles.  They make nice wooden roofs for a bit more building variety.  When testing I even made a nice little castle with turrets and a stable of sorts with this tileset.  Man, this is becoming an extremely flexible and efficient tileset.  Hehe...  I think the idea with the 'overworld' is that it was lived in by people who made medieval style housing as it's the best they could do with the materials provided but had limited technology (which be why they have 8-bit computers like the CPC).  The higher tech stuff is found later in the fortress and some of the caves which they were unaware of and is where the security droids emerged from.

[redbox]

Have increased the game screen area by 16 pixels because I wanted a bit of extra 'head room' for the characters when jumping about and such.  The total height of the game including game screen, border and status panel is now 200 pixels which I don't think should be much of a problem since it's flick screen anyways. 

The best resolution is probably 256x256 on the CPC for this type of game.

It's then 32x32 CRTC characters and it enables the programmer to use fast sprites etc which will speed up the engine considerably.

[Carnivius]

I don't know what that means.  I'd rather not go any higher than 200 though for various reasons, both technical and aesthetic...

[redbox]

I don't know what that means.  I'd rather not go any higher than 200 though for various reasons, both technical and aesthetic...

Well, "technically" 256x256 allows you to use much faster sprite routines on the CPC.  Faster sprite routines means more sprites, animation, explosions etc etc.

Smaller screens on the CPC are used because of scrolling...  so would be a shame to have a smaller playing field for no reason (if you're not scrolling).

[Carnivius]

Well, "technically" 256x256 allows you to use much faster sprite routines on the CPC.  Faster sprite routines means more sprites, animation, explosions etc etc.

Smaller screens on the CPC are used because of scrolling...  so would be a shame to have a smaller playing field for no reason (if you're not scrolling).

I don't know.  I've just done a quick mock up of it using 256 height and I don't know if it looks any good.  We're so used to 'wide screen' images particularly in this age, it looks so weird having the display so very square.  What other action games used that size so I can compare?


Also I don't understand why it would be faster when it would need to be display a lot more of the 4x8 tiles on each screen. 

[redbox]

I don't know.  I've just done a quick mock up of it using 256 height and I don't know if it looks any good.  We're so used to 'wide screen' images particularly in this age, it looks so weird having the display so very square.  What other action games used that size so I can compare?

Well, if you want the 'wide screen' look then use 320x200 (standard CPC size, which of course is 160x200 in MODE 0).  The 256x256 resolution just means faster sprite routines on the CPC because the sprite routines don't have to cross the page boundry.  See the wiki for a programming explanation.

So in short, if you use 256x256, more can happen on the screen in one frame (sprite wise).  If you use 320x200, you'll have a nice big screen but the payoff will probably mean less sprites etc.  But if you're not scrolling the screen, on the CPC you may as well use one of these two options - there's no other point in limiting the screen size.

Also I don't understand why it would be faster when it would need to be display a lot more of the 4x8 tiles on each screen.

Again, the tiles can be drawn quicker on a 256x256 screen - tiles are essentially sprites on the CPC, which are all software drawn.

[Carnivius]

I dunno.  320 looks too wide and 256 looks too tall.  There's a sprite size to screen size ratio I quite like how it as the moment.  I find the it's easier for the eyes to focus on the player sprite when the play area isn't too big. 

Also just wondering why do so many flick screen games not use a big play area then?  Even ones made in the last couple years (for example, Teodoro's play area is only 128 pixels high)

[redbox]

Also just wondering why do so many flick screen games not use a big play area then?  Even ones made in the last couple years (for example, Teodoro's play area is only 128 pixels high)

Probably because it's a Spectrum port.  Also, it depends on the programmer.  Some might use small screen sizes because their routines aren't very fast.

But on the CPC, if you're not scrolling then you can use lots of nice methods such as fast sprites, dirty tilemaps etc so you can get lots moving on the screen.  Take a look at something like SyX previewed in this thread.

[TotO]

Hello Carnivac,

If your game don't use scrolling (it's a design choice not a problem) and you like to use wide screen view, your game will match really fine on a 288x224 16K screen, like that:

I have just added a char column to your great GFx and expanded the score bar... Please, don't blame me for that, because it's a shame to make mockup from your work... But, it's a speaking example.


[attachimg=1]


Cheers,

  TotO.

[Carnivius]

Thanks totO.  I'm really not sure what I'm doing.

Here's a slightly out of date screenshot edited so the game area, frame and status panel are 256pixels tall total. 


It's really a bit too square for my tastes and the player sprite somehow seems 'further away' than he did with a smaller play area.  I don't know what to do about all this really.  I cannot continue developing this project until I've made a decision.

Probably not the best screenshot to have used since that area doesn't make use of the extra space required (a much more platform-game-like screen would have worked better but the game is currently too broken for me to do that until the new smaller tiles are in there, the new game screen size settled on and I can get back to designing screens with the tiles)

@redbox that engine in that video sure did look pretty smooth.  Are the routines and code stuff that's commonly known to most CPC coders of today?

[redbox]

@redbox that engine in that video sure did look pretty smooth.  Are the routines and code stuff that's commonly known to most CPC coders of today?

SyX is a very good programmer 

But yeah, something along those lines is of course feasible.

[Carnivius]

SyX is a very good programmer 

But yeah, something along those lines is of course feasible.

I have no idea who, if anyone, will produce a true CPC version.  If I wasn't such a brainless fool who fails at logic I might try learning but it would still likely be never as good as someone who is experienced with the CPC could do.  Just trying to keep this PC version of it fairly simple.

Do you know if that engine showed in that video would run fine like that on a 464?

[redbox]

I have no idea who, if anyone, will produce a true CPC version. Just trying to keep this PC version of it fairly simple.

There has to be a real CPC version of this, the graphics are fantastic!  Understand what you're doing with the PC version, but surely it's a good idea so that even this version is a true reflection of at least what's possible on the real hardware... for example, you've already decided not to scroll because it's tricky on the actual CPC.

Do you know if that engine showed in that video would run fine like that on a 464?

Yes, that runs on a real CPC.  Good, isn't it? 

[SyX]

Do you know if that engine showed in that video would run fine like that on a 464?

That project was for 128 KBs, although since then i have reworked a lot of that for being able to use it in my projects for CPCs with 64 kbs of ram.

But i feel for making justice at your amazing graphic work, you will going to need or the extra ram or being a floppy game

[Carnivius]

There has to be a real CPC version of this, the graphics are fantastic!  Understand what you're doing with the PC version, but surely it's a good idea so that even this version is a true reflection of at least what's possible on the real hardware... for example, you've already decided not to scroll because it's tricky on the actual CPC.

Yeah, I'm trying to make it CPC-like as possible to make it easier to port to a real CPC sometime but I'm mostly going by what I've seen in games running on my 464 as my technical benchmark of sorts and trying to match those.  I'm not a CPC coder so I'm unaware of what tricks and coding techniques have been developed since these old games I own were produced.  In some ways, not using a full large screen seems more authentic to the era though.   I'm struggling with this decision.

But i feel for making justice at your amazing graphic work, you will going to need or the extra ram or being a floppy game

but the whole point of this project is that I always wanted to make a game running on my real actual CPC 464 the computer of my childhood I still own today.  No upgrades or anything.  Hence why I'm trying to use a lot of graphic tricks to recycle sprites and tiles as much as I can.  Also there are things I'm marking as non-essential 128k extras but the core game must be able to run that very 464 I that resides on my little 'retro' desk in my bedroom.   

[Carnivius]

Out of curiosity does anyone have the issue of Retro Gamer where a really old (and very much out of date and somewhat ugly) screenshot of this game was printed in?  Must be towards end of 2008 and beginning of 2009 I would assume.  Or maybe I imagined the whole thing.  I thought I had a scan of the page but I can't seem to find it where I would expect it. 

[ervin]

Out of curiosity does anyone have the issue of Retro Gamer where a really old (and very much out of date and somewhat ugly) screenshot of this game was printed in?  Must be towards end of 2008 and beginning of 2009 I would assume.  Or maybe I imagined the whole thing.  I thought I had a scan of the page but I can't seem to find it where I would expect it.

I have it - I'll see if I can retrieve it later today, after work.

[EDIT] Alrighty, here we go.

This first one is the whole article, from issue 56 of RG.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qfosckr0de6ilt8/scan.png?m

This next one is just the screenshot, enlarged.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/79q68yc82jn2j79/screenshot.png?m

Wow... I can't believe that competition was almost 5 years ago!
To this day I still regret not finishing my entry (Sabre Wulf).

[Carnivius]

Thanks Ervin!  Much appreciated.      Yeah.. almost 5 years has passed.  Seems crazy. 

Ok.  Here's a test shot of how it may look with the bigger game area as suggested.  Have also added some details to the sides of the frame and revamped the status panel a bit too.  The gameplay screen there is obviously copy/pasted from a previous shot as I haven't done new level layouts for the new screen size and tileset size.

Before I proceed to begin making the new screen layouts does anyone have objections to the bigger size or why it may not work?

[ervin]

My pleasure.


The new screen looks fantastic.
I think the dimensions work quite well actually.
Reminds me, funnily enough, of Ghosts n Goblins (arcade), as that has fairly square screen proportions as well.

[TotO]

Before I proceed to begin making the new screen layouts does anyone have objections to the bigger size or why it may not work?

I though that is useless to waste the playfield size with borders and displaying the game title on it.
Playing on a largest CPC area (if technically possible) will be better than on a Spectrum like...

But sure, it look already great like that.

[Carnivius]

I though that is useless to waste the playfield size with borders and displaying the game title on it.
Playing on a largest CPC area (if technically possible) will be better than on a Spectrum like...

You mean the frame?   That serves a purpose because of the black borders of a CPC screen and to seperate the game area from the black borders (particularly on areas with a lot of black including the title screen and intro and anything with a space backdrop.  The lack of such in some 8-bit games that had mostly black backdrops like R-Type for example used to bug me like crazy), also for when the story dialogue is put on screen and also for consistency with other framed elements (such as menus).   And to be honest I quite like frames and it's one of many, many things I miss about many 8-bit home computer games.  Same goes for having the game name there too.  I resisted using the full logo as that is 32 pixels high whereas the name in just the regular font is 8.

Anyways I'm gonna make this the final screen change and get on with getting the new level started. Cos it's long overdue and I'm tired of running around the same few screens (which are now completely messed up because of the screen size changes). 

[TotO]

Yes, I'm speaking about the "pipes" frame.
Sure that look nice, but it's not interresting for the game itself.

If in 80s they added a frame (on Cybernoid for example) and the game title on screen, it's only to fill the area and hide the fact that the playfield can't be bigger w/o too much frame rate drop from the speccy ports.

Your game use colored backgrounds, so the playfield don't need to be delimited.
Because you don't use scrolling it will be better to take part of the CPC capabilities on this original game, instead of doing like on "ZX".

A wide 16K 144x224 mode 0 screen is more close to the CTM aspect ratio.
That will allow you to build more interesting action maps too.
(Like you does on your previous picture finally)

[Carnivius]

Yes, I'm speaking about the "pipes" frame.
Sure that look nice, but it's not interresting for the game itself.

If in 80s they added a frame (on Cybernoid for example) and the game title on screen, it's only to fill the area and hide the fact that the playfield can't be bigger w/o too much frame rate drop from the speccy ports.

Your game use colored backgrounds, so the playfield don't need to be delimited.
Because you don't use scrolling it will be better to take part of the CPC capabilities on this original game, instead of doing like on "ZX".

A wide 16K 144x224 mode 0 screen is more close to the CTM aspect ratio.
That will allow you to build more interesting action maps too.
(Like you does on your previous picture finally)

There's no pleasing some people. 

The frame which takes up 8 pixels at the top.  4 pixels each side (which equal to same size as the 8 ) and NONE at the bottom since it's integrated into the status panel.   Hardly cutting much into the gameplay area (which I have already increased considerably).  To suggest otherwise is incredibly picky and fussy and annoys the hell out of me to be honest.

This is becoming like the whole scanline crap that gave me a major headache and made me consider just deleting the whole lot and finding some other hobby.   I just want to get on with it and make the levels... I neeeeed to feel like this project is going somewhere.  Not just the same thing over and over and over...  Meant to be fun.  Not work.  Cos I sure as heck ain't being paid for it.


edit: damn emoticons happening when you actually just wanted the text that triggers them...

[Gryzor]

Hey, don't get offended People will tell their opinion no matter what, and in any case feedback here has been overwhelmingly positive No need for you to get demoralized just because someone thinks something could be a bit better!

[Puresox]

As big a playing area as possible , without effecting the flow of the game, Thats my 2 cents. Looks great anyhow.