Author Topic: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo  (Read 31095 times)

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Offline Tolkin

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A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« on: 14:55, 01 June 09 »
Hy Forum,
last Weekend we held the CPC-Klassentreffen in Germany.
At this Meeting i present the Work in Progress Demo of the Remake of Giana Sisters called: A tribute to the Sisters...
Back in the Days i was angry about the bad Beta of the Giana Sisters on CPC. So as TFM an i talked about a game i wanted to remake a Giana Sisters which should be a remake of the C64 and Amiga Version. The main thing was to get the playablility of the C64 and the GFX near the Amiga.
TFM an i talked about the specs: FullScreen with Overscan and Scrolling; big sprites; Colorfull; good Tunes and a perfect playability.
So we have not much time, because of the rest of our lives, o it takes a bit. But step for step we getting forward.
Now its time to show the progress of the first period.
The Code was made by TFM, the sound comes from Kangaroo Musique an i (Tolkin) painted the GFX.
 
Hope you will like it.
 
There a a few recommandations for running this WIP-Demo:
min. 128KB of RAM (up to 4MB can be used, more loading at the beginning, less loading in the game)
Future OS installed in the ROM-Box (RRB; SF2; Romcard or whatever)
CPC-Old gen compatible.
a Drive with 80 tracks and Parados XDDOS or Vortex Format supported (720KB)
 
or Emulator compatible (Winape) but some things a smoother on real CPC.
 
Start Future OS with |OS, then klick on "B" (or the Drive which is 80Trk and 720KB), after that klick on "Dir", then mark the "-RunMe"-File in the List and at last klick on "Run"
In the Titel "A tribute to the Sister" Press the "1" Button to start at first level
 
Much fun
Tolkin
« Last Edit: 03:46, 03 June 09 by Tolkin »

Offline ukmarkh

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #1 on: 19:04, 01 June 09 »
'Devilmarkus' Can you maybe get this to run from JavaCPC???

Offline MiguelSky

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #2 on: 12:33, 02 June 09 »
'Devilmarkus' Can you maybe get this to run from JavaCPC???

ukmarkh, it's working in JavaCPC !!! :)

Offline Ygdrazil

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #3 on: 19:55, 02 June 09 »
Great, Is there a link to A tribute to the sisters WIP-Demo on the JavaCPC site?

/Ygdrazil


ukmarkh, it's working in JavaCPC !!! :)
« Last Edit: 19:59, 02 June 09 by Ygdrazil »

Offline Devilmarkus

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #4 on: 02:21, 07 June 09 »
Great, Is there a link to A tribute to the sisters WIP-Demo on the JavaCPC site?

/Ygdrazil

This will follow... Just having some trouble acessing my FTP. Sorry, guys.
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Offline Devilmarkus

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #5 on: 03:20, 07 June 09 »
You can try it here:
Link

I'm sorry that I can't combine snapshot with disk... FutureOS cannot continue reading from disk, when snapshot loaded (sad thing)

you will have to start the game manually:
- select A (upper left corner)
- click on DIR
- select file RUN-ME
- click on RUN
- Plug and Pray  ;D
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Offline Ygdrazil

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #6 on: 11:57, 07 June 09 »
I have tried it now.. It's really nice. Especially the scrolling is impressive - very smooth and in overscan. This must be a first on the CPC!?!?

Looking forward to the full version

/Ygdrazil

PS. Could this be a reason to run FutureOS?

You can try it here:
Link

I'm sorry that I can't combine snapshot with disk... FutureOS cannot continue reading from disk, when snapshot loaded (sad thing)

you will have to start the game manually:
- select A (upper left corner)
- click on DIR
- select file RUN-ME
- click on RUN
- Plug and Pray  ;D

Offline mr_lou

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #7 on: 13:44, 07 June 09 »
You say "CPC-Old gen compatible".

Does that mean there'll be a version with 4-5 DSK files that'll run on a CPC6128? (or even CPC464?).

Offline Tolkin

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #8 on: 23:15, 07 June 09 »
Hy, Old-Gen Compatiblity means, that no CPC+Features are used. (No Hardware Sprites, and no + Hardware Scrolling). A few guys thougt that a CPC plus is a requirement for the game. So i only want to point out that it runs on a normal 6128. The "only" Hardware you need is a ROM-Box (or sth.) with the FutureOS Roms in it.
I have not tried it on a CPC 464 with + 64KB of RAM.
This WIP Version only runs from 720KB Disk, but it will work from a 180KB Disk in the Final-Verion too. Then you will have to "turn" the Disk every 6 Levels or so... No need for getting everything on only on Disk...
If you have more Ram the Game will use it for loading more levels in one go. Under Future OS it takes only a few Seconds.
Hope you enjoy the Preview.
Tolkin

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #9 on: 19:57, 08 June 09 »
Working on keyboard recording function in JavaCPC...

You can automatically run Giana Sisters preview here:
Link
« Last Edit: 01:31, 09 June 09 by CPC-Live »
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Offline TFM

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #10 on: 20:47, 09 June 09 »
PS. Could this be a reason to run FutureOS?

Right, this is one reason :-) Other reasons for using FutureOS are memory-management, usability of intrrupt mode 2 and the zero page with RSTs.
Tolkin always asks me to create an Amsdos version, but this would need a lot of the FutureOS routines, so a 128 KB machine wouldn't have enough RAM. In the end we decided to use FutureOS, but 128 KB RAM are enough. However, an RAM expansion is pure gold in Gianas case.
 
 
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #11 on: 21:02, 13 June 09 »
I loaded it a few days back, it looks really sweet!!! The only thing I'd ask to change are the gfx - I think it should have more 'advanced' sprites, since these look fine for '85 perhaps, but a bit simplistic by later standards. Maybe some shading/antialiasing or something...?

Offline TFM

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #12 on: 00:56, 15 June 09 »
I loaded it a few days back, it looks really sweet!!! The only thing I'd ask to change are the gfx - I think it should have more 'advanced' sprites, since these look fine for '85 perhaps, but a bit simplistic by later standards. Maybe some shading/antialiasing or something...?

These things can be done with a CPC Plus version, that is planned. But the plus version will be created after the version for the good old normal CPC.
 
You can do a lot of tricks with software on the old CPC, but the hardware defines some limitations. Shading is hard to do with 16 Pens and 27 colors. Antialiasing can best be done by using a real CPC monitor, that contains a kind of antialiasing due to its construction.
 
However it may help us a lot if you can kindly provide some links or examples of 'advanced' sprites and 'later standards'. With your help we may can make it better.
 
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Offline Tolkin

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #13 on: 19:25, 15 June 09 »
Hy, personally i like big clear sprites. I dont like a bunch of colors which shows a sprite like in the mist.
I said that a orginall hardware is better, cause the Monitor makes the Antialiasing "out of the box" ;) CPC-Games in Emus looks awful most of the Time.
The GFX is only little enhanced to preserve the orginal giana feeling.
Gianas walk have 8 Phases which is enough i think. You see it on the "Rockabilly-Hairs" when waving around.
Can you give me an example of an advanced sprite (Robocop2 is the only one i can remember, but it is a Plus Sprite) i cant remeber many good sprites back in the days. (Maybe the X-Contra Sprite from FaceHugger, which is perfect). i want to understand what you mean, so can you show me some?
Thanks for your help.
Bye
Tolkin

Offline Gryzor

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #14 on: 19:45, 15 June 09 »

These things can be done with a CPC Plus version, that is planned. But the plus version will be created after the version for the good old normal CPC.
 
You can do a lot of tricks with software on the old CPC, but the hardware defines some limitations. Shading is hard to do with 16 Pens and 27 colors. Antialiasing can best be done by using a real CPC monitor, that contains a kind of antialiasing due to its construction.
 
However it may help us a lot if you can kindly provide some links or examples of 'advanced' sprites and 'later standards'. With your help we may can make it better.
 

I think there was "shading" even with the normal CPC palette, even though it may not have been actual shading/antialiasing but only clever use of palette and tiles. The sprite you have here, in any case, looks a bit squashed. Compare it to, say, Rainbow Islands...

Offline Tolkin

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #15 on: 20:22, 15 June 09 »
Hy, i hold the both sprites of Giana and Bub on the CPC on 2 Screens beside, i dont get it what you mean.
Bub is still blocky too, Giana have a few "Antialiasing" Pixels in her hairs, bub have only hard blocked sides of his hairs... Do you mean the flapper hands when Bub goes down?
 

Offline Gryzor

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #16 on: 20:24, 15 June 09 »
No - you're right, technically, and what I said wasn't exactly true always, maybe I should have said about the general styling... because Bub is certainly lovable and oh-so-cute, whereas Giana is a bit like a pixel explosion :D

Offline Tolkin

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #17 on: 21:04, 15 June 09 »
Hy, oh yes with this aspect you are right.
Bub is still more Japanese-"Hello-Kitty" Style. (Or Malibu Barbie) And Giana is more Europe Style. But thats what Giana is ;)
We want to make a Giana Clone, so we orientated on the Orginal C64 GFX. I hope the new CPC-GFX is much better.
 
I am orientated on the new "Gianas-Return" too, which is still very nice. (The new DS Giana Sisters 2 is much to Java-Games style with all the aquarell-colours, which doesnt fit to the Orginal CPC-Colour Palette)
 
The main intention was to make a good CPC-Version, cause the Orginal CPC-Version, which was only a beta, was awful ugly and totally s##%#Grrr##.
 
But i think of a nude Version (like on TombRaider back in the Days ;) for the Otaku-CPC-Guys

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #18 on: 01:23, 18 June 09 »
I think there was "shading" even with the normal CPC palette, even though it may not have been actual shading/antialiasing but only clever use of palette and tiles. The sprite you have here, in any case, looks a bit squashed. Compare it to, say, Rainbow Islands...


Hmmm, in Rainbow Islands I see no shading, may you can help with anohter example???
 
However, "A Tribute to the Sisters" is supposed to be a 2D game, may I don't get you right?
 

Offline Gryzor

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #19 on: 11:06, 18 June 09 »
I wasn't talking about RI, but is the term shading used only in 3D games? If so then my mistake, disregard it.

Offline Carnivius

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #20 on: 13:34, 18 June 09 »
I wasn't talking about RI, but is the term shading used only in 3D games?

Nope.

And I agree, the main sprite (based on the images in the first post) is definitely twice the width it should be.  It looks like it was originally designed for regular pixel width like in Mode 1 but appears stretched in Mode 0's wider pixels.  Just needs to be redrawn and take the wider resolution into account when working out the sprite proportions.

Not sure if what I said makes any sense.  I'm too tired.
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #21 on: 13:50, 18 June 09 »
Nope.

And I agree, the main sprite (based on the images in the first post) is definitely twice the width it should be.  It looks like it was originally designed for regular pixel width like in Mode 1 but appears stretched in Mode 0's wider pixels.  Just needs to be redrawn and take the wider resolution into account when working out the sprite proportions.


Yes - exactly what I'd say if I grasped it! But of course you're the pixel artist :)

Btw, the relevant page has been reinstituted on the wiki now that we have a release...

Offline TFM

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #22 on: 20:15, 18 June 09 »
Nope.

And I agree, the main sprite (based on the images in the first post) is definitely twice the width it should be.  It looks like it was originally designed for regular pixel width like in Mode 1 but appears stretched in Mode 0's wider pixels.  Just needs to be redrawn and take the wider resolution into account when working out the sprite proportions.

Not sure if what I said makes any sense.  I'm too tired.

Well, I didn't paint the Graphics of "A Tribute to the Sisters...", because I'm not able to create that beautiful graphics. And I also don't know anybody who is able to do better graphics on CPC today than Tolkin. This may be my personal oppinion, but if somebody thinks he can make it better, just do it :-)
 
However I know very good that Tokin did all the Graphics from scratch. If he wants to use a graphic in Mode 0 - then he paints it in Mode 0.
 
Further, the Giana Sprite is 24 Pixel high, but only 16 pixel wide. Take a look at a real CPC, then you will see...
 
Have a good day,
TFM / FutureSoft
 
 
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Offline Carnivius

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #23 on: 20:47, 18 June 09 »
Take a look at this.  Maybe it'll help explain.



First sprite was grabbed from the Tribute.  Second is the Amiga version's sprite and third is the Tribute one halved in width to show you it's the same proportions as the Amiga version but only after reducing the width 50%.  Basically the Tribute sprite is trying to be the same proportions as the Amiga one there but because Mode 0 on the CPC has double width pixel size it's making the sprite appear stretched (the first sprite).  In Mode 0 you have to compromise some details from a regular sized pixel resolution sprite to get it the same overal proportions.  You can't just copy the same size from a normal size pixel resolution and expect the sprite to appear the same width as the original.

edit: Added the C64 sprite to show how despite the wide pixels same as CPC's Mode 0 they've got the sprite to be the correct proportions.  They've 'cheated' a little bit on the eye by using of them mixed resolution sprites the C64 seemed able to do.  Hardware sprites is it?  I dunno.  But overall it shows what I mean I think.

edit again:  Added two color versions of the C64 sprite edited by me with CPC colors and slightly changed details to be a bit more readable and 'cute' just to see if the base C64 sprite could work ok on the CPC.  Also added some shading in places for a bit more depth (though I can already see one area I messed it up on a bit and I didn't take into account the blue of the sky).  The first color scheme is using the midrange value of 127 which is what I use, and Caprice uses.  WinApe uses 125 which is close enough to not be noticable.  Arnold and the Java CPC use 96 which is much darker and is what the second version of my edit uses just so you can see the difference. 

Hope this at least helps explain how the Giana sprite could be improved and correctly proportioned and just look somewhat better on the CPC.
« Last Edit: 21:33, 18 June 09 by Carnivac »
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Offline TFM

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Re: A Tribute to the Sister WIP-Demo
« Reply #24 on: 21:48, 18 June 09 »
Thanks a lot. You did a bunch of work to explain what you mean. The comparison is quite intersting! Now I think some things are clear(er than before), also the idea with giving Giana a 3D like shape in a 2D game is of particular interest.
 
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