Author Topic: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)  (Read 79179 times)

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Offline Xyphoe

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #25 on: 05:44, 13 April 11 »
Yes me ! But you were not interested by talking with me so......never mind  :D

Aha - I now know what you are on about  :-[ PM sent!!!!

Offline SyX

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #26 on: 11:10, 13 April 11 »
mahlemiut, the game is not finished, and the objective of Cesar is to make a great conversion, although he is the only person with the answer at your questions, but i can confirm you that the Power Up appears, because i took the candies and the shoes when i was playing  :D
« Last Edit: 11:12, 13 April 11 by SyX »

Offline mahlemiut

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #27 on: 00:41, 14 April 11 »
Well, I'm just being a bit picky, loved the original arcade game back in the day, played it heaps :)

I'm referring to the Power Up, Original Game, and Super codes that you can enter (one at a time) at the title screen.  Only the X68000 (and maybe the MSX2 version also) version has them (albeit easily selectable on the options screen instead).

Here's some more technical stuff from the arcade version, including how the bonus system works, complete with Z80 code - http://replay.marpirc.net/txt/bublbobl.txt
- Barry Rodewald
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Offline Xyphoe

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #28 on: 09:23, 15 April 11 »
New preview video up! With more information, and comparison to Arcade and original conversion -

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT5-jpa4-DI[/youtube]

As I say in the video, and must stress, this is still just a preview unfinished and beta version.

I spoke to Cesar a lot yesterday and he filled me in with everything. Things like pushing bubbles, riding the water, and other bonus's and powerups will be implementing along with proper scoring. I'm sure there will be a nice loading screen too!

One interesting thing is that it loads all in one go, and in only 64k of memory too!!

Where this project is at - I believe all the available memory has gone, and now Cesar is looking to fiddle with code then recompress using better methods. He's already free'd up 1k of memory since this preview version.  :)
 
My only issue so far, bar the flickery sprites at times (which I think sadly, is now unavoidable but not a big problem) is jumping is not as maneuverable in the air like the arcade original. I'll put this to Cesar when I next speak to him, but he probably already knows as he's a huuuuuuge fan of Bubble Bobble :D

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #29 on: 11:14, 15 April 11 »
oh Yeah, Cesar is a lot into the 464... :)


Perhaps some extra gameplay features may come in 128K version then ?

I mean i don't think the Arcade version weighted 64K only...
« Last Edit: 11:22, 15 April 11 by MacDeath »

Offline redbox

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #30 on: 11:26, 15 April 11 »
Looks great, shame about sprite flicker - wonder if it's because there's no room for double buffering in the 64kb?


And a nice video too - thanks Xyphoe!

Offline SyX

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #31 on: 11:38, 15 April 11 »
Looks great, shame about sprite flicker - wonder if it's because there's no room for double buffering in the 64kb?
Exactimundi!!! :P ... but i commented him in the Retro Encounter that i would be nice if he could make an 128KBs version if only was to add the double buffer and finish with the sprite flickering and he doesn't show too much objection...

Offline redbox

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #32 on: 11:41, 15 April 11 »
Exactimundi!!! :P ... but i commented him in the Retro Encounter that i would be nice if he could make an 128KBs version if only was to add the double buffer and finish with the sprite flickering and he doesn't show too much objection...


Cool!  Hopefully you persuaded him enough...!

Offline SyX

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #33 on: 13:58, 15 April 11 »
I tried to appeal at his perfectionist soul  ;)

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #34 on: 20:38, 15 April 11 »
What the...
C├ęsar, I will come personally to kick your butt if you don't !!! >:(


Was I credible ??? ::)


(kidding ....of course....)

Offline TFM

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #35 on: 00:37, 16 April 11 »
Looks great, shame about sprite flicker - wonder if it's because there's no room for double buffering in the 64kb?

Or it can be a synchronisation problem.
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Offline mahlemiut

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #36 on: 01:34, 16 April 11 »
Noticed in that preview, that the second bonus item sticks around once all the enemies have been popped.  Should disappear as soon as the last enemy is popped, if it hasn't already past the time it should appear for (which varies from stage to stage, can be as short as 1 frame).  First bonus doesn't disappear at this point, though.

Let me know if I'm being too picky... ;)

If Cesar needs a playtester, I'm here :)
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Offline scooby1970

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #37 on: 18:48, 17 April 11 »
I've always loved Bubble Bobble, and I play the Saturn version to death! This new CPC remake is looking promising, let's just hope it gets released soon. Even a little go of the demo would be nice ;)

:) Mark
Retro gamer by day, retro gamer by night.

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #38 on: 19:23, 17 April 11 »
The bonus system was a bit wild indeed. Given that, IIRC the computer devs didn't have access to the code as was the usual practice, but were given an arcade cab (if that), they would have to figure out this system themselves before putting it in...

That said, I had enjoyed the original version as well. The new one looks, erm, brand new - no relation! :D It looks just amazing. I just find the flickering a bit disappointing - I really don't understand why the 64k limit, unless it's an exercise.

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #39 on: 20:41, 17 April 11 »
Cesar is a lot into CPC464 and tapes actually.

Don't remember if he has 6128 in stock... or even RAM addon.

Offline sigh

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #40 on: 20:54, 17 April 11 »
I really don't understand why the 64k limit, unless it's an exercise.

The C64 version managed to fit everything into that amount of memory and the creator saw no reason why it wasn't/couldn't been done on an a cpc with the same amount.


Offline redbox

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #41 on: 21:26, 17 April 11 »
The C64 version managed to fit everything into that amount of memory and the creator saw no reason why it wasn't/couldn't been done on an a cpc with the same amount.

C64 has hardware sprites = no flicker.

CPC has no hardware sprites = flicker, needs double buffering.

Offline TFM

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #42 on: 19:59, 18 April 11 »
C64 has hardware sprites = no flicker.

CPC has no hardware sprites = flicker, needs double buffering.

You don't need double buffering, if you choose the moment right in which you move the sprite. There are loads of examples out there.
 
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Offline MacDeath

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #43 on: 08:57, 19 April 11 »
Quote
The C64 version managed to fit everything into that amount of memory and   the creator saw no reason why it wasn't/couldn't been done on an a cpc   with the same amount.
Aren't C64 datas lighter concerning graphics (Attribute based) and Sounds (Sid based) ?
Also having Hardwired sprites may get this easier to implement... no need for complicated software routines to get this done.


Yet I quite understand the will to get a 464 game (Dead on time per exemple...)
But an upgraded 128K version is a good thing too...

Offline Xyphoe

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #44 on: 10:21, 19 April 11 »
Aren't C64 datas lighter concerning graphics (Attribute based) and Sounds (Sid based) ?
Also having Hardwired sprites may get this easier to implement... no need for complicated software routines to get this done.

The simple answer I believe is 'yes' but then there are other issues to address (I may not be entirely correct but sprites made up of x by x pixel chunks may have a problem with other sprites on the same horizontal plane of each other). If TMR is reading this topic he'll be able to explain exactly, but it does appear ironically enough that the C64 and NES both suffered a lot from flickery sprites (I think usually because of too many being on the screen) in a lot of games considering this very topic we're discussing! The sprites also tend have that strange 'squished' look (perhaps not in all cases) .... hello TMR? Explain this to me! :D
« Last Edit: 10:24, 19 April 11 by Xyphoe »

Offline arnoldemu

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #45 on: 11:42, 19 April 11 »
Aren't C64 datas lighter concerning graphics (Attribute based) and Sounds (Sid based) ?
Also having Hardwired sprites may get this easier to implement... no need for complicated software routines to get this done.


Yet I quite understand the will to get a 464 game (Dead on time per exemple...)
But an upgraded 128K version is a good thing too...

C64 has 8 hardware sprites, each of which is a fixed size. Now you can use some clever code to multiplex, so you can have lots and lots. Now the sprite data is always 64 bytes long, so it's small to write if you need to or you can just re-program the pointers to say where the data is fetched - so you can have lots of sprites and just tell the hardware where to fetch the pixels. Nice, flexible and quick, and low on memory too.

There are some restrictions for the colours: 1 Pen is transparent, leaving 3 for the sprite (I talk multi-colour here). 2 more colours are shared between all sprites, leaving 1 colour to be chosen uniquely for each sprite.

So when you compare it to CPC/Spectrum you're saving time drawing and erasing sprites which we are forced to do.

Now the C64 also has raster interrupts, so you can interrupt at any scanline on the screen and do things (change modes, change colours, change sprites etc). This makes things a lot more easy. On Spectrum you have *1* interrupt per frame, on CPC we have 6 interrupts in fixed locations per frame.

Reading the joystick and keyboard on C64 are quicker than on the cpc. In fact reading the keyboard on the spectrum is faster than the cpc. We have to go through the PPI/AY, the others have direct port/memory access.

For Spectrum and c64 you have direct access to sound registers, we have to go through the PPI. So it's slower here too.

Spectrum has 1 mode where you choose 2 colours for each cell (background and foreground), the colours are read from ram, so if you want to change them you re-write the data in ram.

On C64 In terms of "modes", there are various, but they all essentially come down to a cell based approach, in that you have a certain number of colours you can choose for each colour cell.

So it has a spectrum like mode where it has attributes and high res and you can choose 2 colours for each cell.

multi-colour mode is similar (same res like mode 0), and here you can have up to 4 colours per cell, but you do have restrictions.

There is another mode where you can mix hi-res chars and multi-colour pixels too to help make nice huds.

There are modes where you define a charset and write tile indices to the screen, and others which are bitmapped.

And finally bitmapped modes as we have.

Spectrum's mode is also bitmapped.

So on c64 essentially you have restrictions but you have some nice hardware to help. So in a way you're given a lot of help to make nice games. I would say "life is easier"... but well making a game is more than just having hardware help.

C64 Demos do some clever stuff that forces the video processor to refetch colour information and things like that to get more colours on the screen (FLI).

The c64 also has pixel perfect vertical and horizontal scrolling. We don't. Spectrum doesn't have any hardware scrolling ability.

The SID is a great synth, it's quick to access, and produces some really nice sounds. The AY has nice sounds too. On Spectrum the AY is quick to access, but on CPC we have to go through PPI.

Our display is always bitmapped. Each mode has a fixed selection of colours. Our interrupts are at fixed positions on the display (6 per frame), if we draw a sprite we also have to erase it. If we draw tiles we have to draw every pixel for each tile. So we've got a lot more hard work to do.

But in the end, we can have a good result just like on C64 *if* the programmer has the knowledge and time to do it. Cesar certainly has both.

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Offline MaV

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #46 on: 12:07, 19 April 11 »
C64 has 8 hardware sprites,

- snip -

With your approval, we can use parts of this post for the wiki articles (cpc vs c64 vs spectrum).
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Offline arnoldemu

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #47 on: 12:16, 19 April 11 »
With your approval, we can use parts of this post for the wiki articles (cpc vs c64 vs spectrum).
yes go for it.

I added some more comparisons between Spectrum and Amstrad in the Speccy Port page.
anyone who wants to update the spectrum page can re-use these.

I added them here so people can understand a little more about the hardware differences, or similarities and understand why Speccy Ports happened.

EDIT: We should also add comparison with the Plus too (but for now concentrate on CPC).
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Offline sigh

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #48 on: 12:18, 19 April 11 »
Thanks for the info arnoldemu. The USA version of Streetfighter on the C64 is an example of hi-res sprites on low-res  backgrounds.

Offline Sykobee (Briggsy)

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Re: Bubble Bobble remake? (BB4CPC)
« Reply #49 on: 19:16, 19 April 11 »
I recall a common trick on the C64 was to overlay a high res sprite over a low res sprite to get 4 colour (+ transparent) sprites that had high res detail with some colours. Of course this was wasteful of sprites, but good in many situations.


Just a shame that the C64's idea of a colour palette originated in the dreary shades of the 70s.