Coding a CPC game: motivation and feedback.

[Carnivius]

I don't buy physical game software.  Not on my new systems and not on my old.  I've no interest in boxes and disks/cassettes and stuff (wouldn't mind a poster for the wall now and then but that's different) but I have happily paid for the digital versions though including those for the C64 (which is not a system I even particularly like playing games on) even just to support the developers.
I've paid about $3 a time for C64 games by RGCD.DEV and Psytronik Software through itch.io which is a great site for buying games for all sorts of computers.

I don't know if your games would be more or less popular if the digital version actually cost a few bucks rather than free but you'd certainly get more money out of folk like me who like to support 8 bit game development but don't want the 'clutter' of boxes and such.

[reidrac]

I don't know if your games would be more or less popular if the digital version actually cost a few bucks rather than free but you'd certainly get more money out of folk like me who like to support 8 bit game development but don't want the 'clutter' of boxes and such.

Well, is not about the money (I waived my royalties); I think it is great to have nice physical releases for the CPC in 2017.

[keith56]

I'm back... to cause more trouble! - hopefully not eh?
Ok, here's my points.
1. I don't want to make any money out of CPC dev - it's not why I'm doing it, and I would be more concerned about it causing me 'tax problems' that any possible financial benefit.
2. Don't want to play my game? fine - I've got no problem with that - I wanted to make something weird crazy and possibly offensive - so I completely understand if it's not your thing.
3. I don't care if the game is physically released or not - if you want to buy physicaly copies - go ahead, if you don't - whatever

all I care about is...

4. spread the word about my game!
This isn't 1990 anymore - "Build it and they will come" is long gone... and using "Suggest a site" on yahoo don't do squat now!
If you like my game, or even if you don't care about it and want to see me keep making them to keep the CPC community alive, here's what I need... (and what I think other devs need)
Tweet about it - link it, mention it on other sites, bump my posts on this site - make youtube videos - post on facebook... whatever YOU can do to promote my game.

I can make a CPC game, I can do the code, the sound, the graphics, I'll test it - and I'll do it for free.
I'l even make and host the website, and do my best to promote it...

I know a lot of people Liked the "EP2 announcement" but likes don't bump threads, so two days after my announcement, it was gone from the front page, and anyone coming here after that easily miss it - and that sucked.

What sucked even more, is that I posted in the old EP1 thread that I'd do a lets play (I've already spend 2 hours recording the gameplay footage - cos I *TOTALLY* have 2+ hours to spare - what with nearly 100 cartoon frames, a bunch of music, and a load of code and testing left to do before I can finish the new game) (some sarcasm included)
I came on the NEXT MORNING - and I struggled to find my own thread, it wasn't in the 'recent posts' (because of course, no one had replied!) so I had to dig in to the games thread to find it - I mean, If I hadn't known where to look for it... I couldn't have found it.

But seriously, If HALF the people who replied in my "How big is your memory" or "Is 64k support important?" thread had posted something in the EP2 thread, I'd have been quite happy...
People seem quite happy to talk about their own stuff, or suggest you keep supporting 64k systems (It's taken WEEKS of coding), but don't seem to enthusiastic to type a quick "great, thanks for programming this!" when you actually do the work and release it.

if you like my game... or you don't like my game, but like that I'm developing CPC games  PLEASE talk about it, here, twitter, facebook or wherever...
If you're liking my game, and not doing anything... I'd rather you F--King hate it, and are so mad about how bad or offensive it is, you go to twitter to compain about how sh-t it is, and try to get all your angry friends protesting against it on youtube, or demand the AVGN reviews it... Cos if no one's talking about it, it might as well not exist - and as far as google is concerned - it wont - so the three people in the world who may actually like playing it will never be able to find it.

[CraigsBar]

I'm back... to cause more trouble! - hopefully not eh?
Ok, here's my points.
1. I don't want to make any money out of CPC dev - it's not why I'm doing it, and I would be more concerned about it causing me 'tax problems' that any possible financial benefit.
2. Don't want to play my game? fine - I've got no problem with that - I wanted to make something weird crazy and possibly offensive - so I completely understand if it's not your thing.
3. I don't care if the game is physically released or not - if you want to buy physicaly copies - go ahead, if you don't - whatever

all I care about is...

4. spread the word about my game!
This isn't 1990 anymore - "Build it and they will come" is long gone... and using "Suggest a site" on yahoo don't do squat now!
If you like my game, or even if you don't care about it and want to see me keep making them to keep the CPC community alive, here's what I need... (and what I think other devs need)
Tweet about it - link it, mention it on other sites, bump my posts on this site - make youtube videos - post on facebook... whatever YOU can do to promote my game.

I can make a CPC game, I can do the code, the sound, the graphics, I'll test it - and I'll do it for free.
I'l even make and host the website, and do my best to promote it...

I know a lot of people Liked the "EP2 announcement" but likes don't bump threads, so two days after my announcement, it was gone from the front page, and anyone coming here after that easily miss it - and that sucked.

What sucked even more, is that I posted in the old EP1 thread that I'd do a lets play (I've already spend 2 hours recording the gameplay footage - cos I *TOTALLY* have 2+ hours to spare - what with nearly 100 cartoon frames, a bunch of music, and a load of code and testing left to do before I can finish the new game) (some sarcasm included)
I came on the NEXT MORNING - and I struggled to find my own thread, it wasn't in the 'recent posts' (because of course, no one had replied!) so I had to dig in to the games thread to find it - I mean, If I hadn't known where to look for it... I couldn't have found it.

But seriously, If HALF the people who replied in my "How big is your memory" or "Is 64k support important?" thread had posted something in the EP2 thread, I'd have been quite happy...
People seem quite happy to talk about their own stuff, or suggest you keep supporting 64k systems (It's taken WEEKS of coding), but don't seem to enthusiastic to type a quick "great, thanks for programming this!" when you actually do the work and release it.

if you like my game... or you don't like my game, but like that I'm developing CPC games  PLEASE talk about it, here, twitter, facebook or wherever...
If you're liking my game, and not doing anything... I'd rather you F--King hate it, and are so mad about how bad or offensive it is, you go to twitter to compain about how sh-t it is, and try to get all your angry friends protesting against it on youtube, or demand the AVGN reviews it... Cos if no one's talking about it, it might as well not exist - and as far as google is concerned - it wont - so the three people in the world who may actually like playing it will never be able to find it.

Now I have episode 1 running beautifully on my m4 is is getting referenced and screenshot published in the local amiga fb group lol. I will convert them from their c64 loyalties. As for hating the dark humour? Not a hope, that is half the fun.

Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk

[reidrac]

I often forget that there are other CPC communities (Spain, France, Germany I guess); you could also try to post there or see if someone posted information about your game. I post on the Spanish one from time to time, but I must confess I don't know anything about the others.

I'm sure we all could do more to promote new CPC games.

Btw, people read the forum, isn't it? Is not just the front page... @Gryzor?

[Gryzor]

Nope, traffic is healthy all around...

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

[mr_lou]

This isn't 1990 anymore - "Build it and they will come" is long gone... and using "Suggest a site" on yahoo don't do squat now!
If you like my game, or even if you don't care about it and want to see me keep making them to keep the CPC community alive, here's what I need... (and what I think other devs need)
Tweet about it - link it, mention it on other sites, bump my posts on this site - make youtube videos - post on facebook... whatever YOU can do to promote my game.
...
I came on the NEXT MORNING - and I struggled to find my own thread, it wasn't in the 'recent posts' (because of course, no one had replied!) so I had to dig in to the games thread to find it - I mean, If I hadn't known where to look for it... I couldn't have found it.
...
if you like my game... or you don't like my game, but like that I'm developing CPC games  PLEASE talk about it, here, twitter, facebook or wherever...

This is what's wrong with the Internet. Things are just moving way too fast. WAY too fast. Especially for a retrocomputer community.

This is exactly why I dream about the revival of diskmags. Because each issue of a diskmag is a static creation. It doesn't change. You can read it whenever you have the time, in your own cosy relaxing pace. Even 6 months after its release, it'll sit there waiting for you, and you can catch up what you've been missing. No website offers this.

Each issue containing in-depth cosy relaxing reviews of new games (i.e. games since last issue). Even has a copy of the game on the diskmag itself so you don't have to go out and find it. Maybe even comes with a built-in emulator, who knows.

I often think about creating such a diskmag every now and then, but then remember that I don't have any time to do so. Still.... if it could be a blu-ray discmag, then I already have the engine. And it could contain videos too then. And readers could choose whether to subscribe to a physical disc by mail, or simply download an ISO to burn themselves, or simply play the ISO with a software player like VLC.

I think this is what we need. A good old fashioned diskmag to go hand in hand with our good old fashioned retrogames (and other retro stuff).

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

Btw, people read the forum, isn't it? Is not just the front page... @Gryzor?

I usually come straight into the UNREAD section of the forum, skipping everything else.


So for me, it's easy for threads to disappear when other people don't post in them.


As for diskmags, I quite like the Commodore Free magazine that a guy does, for Commodore machines obviously. It's available in multiple formats (I usually do HTML), but within each format, there is a set of content following a general template for that issue.

[Puresox]

same

[Joseman]

Just popped into this topic at this point and haven't read any of it but this caught my eye.
Did they not run into any trouble from Irem for selling what is still their intellectual property?

I don't think so

Is Irem protecting his IP's actually?

[Puresox]

Talking about respected games , I am trying to find that smart little vector style horizontal shooter that came out last year. Since my last laptop died I am having to dig out all my fav CPC games . Anyone recall what it was called?

[Puresox]

Btw, Rich I have just transfered for R-Type . Let me know if there is any prob. Man that is so easy to do .
That is what I would much rather doing , It is so easy to transfer . And If I am impressed by programmers efforts , I would be just as happy to donate a random amount ,whenever . Then I feel it is respecting someones efforts rather than the actual production.


I think it would be useful to bring about Profile pages ,of peoples work . Someone else already mentioned it . I think it is a sound idea tbh.

[mr_lou]

I usually come straight into the UNREAD section of the forum, skipping everything else.
So for me, it's easy for threads to disappear when other people don't post in them.

Same for me. I don't know about anyone else, but for me I just don't have the time to browse a whole lot, so I end up only looking at the unread section.

If I had a diskmag however, I would set aside time for it, just like I do when watching a movie.

As for diskmags, I quite like the Commodore Free magazine that a guy does, for Commodore machines obviously. It's available in multiple formats (I usually do HTML), but within each format, there is a set of content following a general template for that issue.

I did not know about this one. But looking at it, I wouldn't qualify it as a diskmag. It's a magazine - and they do also have their place. But it's not a diskmag.

To qualify as a diskmag certain aspects has to be present, most importantly cosy background music, and a general retrostyled layout rather than a modern one. Preferably also bright text on a dark background rather than black text on a white background.

A website, PDF or ePub file usually doesn't come with these attributes - although they're all able to.
Personally, I would also prefer that a diskmag is an offline thing. I.e. one that you download, but don't need to be online in order to read.

But I've brought up the topic of diskmags a few times for the past many many years now, and it's quite clear that I'm the only one who's really missing them. 

Once I've managed to complete my currently million ongoing projects, I might do a poll here asking how many is interested in participating in the creation of a new CPC diskmag, since I continue being convinced that we need one. 

[Dubliner]

Talking about respected games , I am trying to find that smart little vector style horizontal shooter that came out last year. Since my last laptop died I am having to dig out all my fav CPC games . Anyone recall what it was called?

Do you mean Vector Vaults? http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/vector-vault-released-in-september-2016/

What i did to try to keep up with the forum is adding the RSS Feed to feedly so at least i can have a quick look and then save for later long and/or interesting posts. It's a shame that the feed actually misses some posts from time to time.

[arnoldemu]

Talking about respected games , I am trying to find that smart little vector style horizontal shooter that came out last year. Since my last laptop died I am having to dig out all my fav CPC games . Anyone recall what it was called?

vector vaults I think.

[arnoldemu]

same here. I look at the unread threads.

[Puresox]

Vector Vaults ,that was it. thanks
by
Alberto ;Rodrigez Martinez
I hope he is still developing for the machine ,I'd chuck him some dough right now. Love this game , And think it could be developed futher.

[ivarf]

I'm back... to cause more trouble! - hopefully not eh?
Ok, here's my points.
1. I don't want to make any money out of CPC dev - it's not why I'm doing it, and I would be more concerned about it causing me 'tax problems' that any possible financial benefit.
2. Don't want to play my game? fine - I've got no problem with that - I wanted to make something weird crazy and possibly offensive - so I completely understand if it's not your thing.
3. I don't care if the game is physically released or not - if you want to buy physicaly copies - go ahead, if you don't - whatever

all I care about is...

4. spread the word about my game!
This isn't 1990 anymore - "Build it and they will come" is long gone... and using "Suggest a site" on yahoo don't do squat now!
If you like my game, or even if you don't care about it and want to see me keep making them to keep the CPC community alive, here's what I need... (and what I think other devs need)
Tweet about it - link it, mention it on other sites, bump my posts on this site - make youtube videos - post on facebook... whatever YOU can do to promote my game.

I can make a CPC game, I can do the code, the sound, the graphics, I'll test it - and I'll do it for free.
I'l even make and host the website, and do my best to promote it...

I know a lot of people Liked the "EP2 announcement" but likes don't bump threads, so two days after my announcement, it was gone from the front page, and anyone coming here after that easily miss it - and that sucked.

What sucked even more, is that I posted in the old EP1 thread that I'd do a lets play (I've already spend 2 hours recording the gameplay footage - cos I *TOTALLY* have 2+ hours to spare - what with nearly 100 cartoon frames, a bunch of music, and a load of code and testing left to do before I can finish the new game) (some sarcasm included)
I came on the NEXT MORNING - and I struggled to find my own thread, it wasn't in the 'recent posts' (because of course, no one had replied!) so I had to dig in to the games thread to find it - I mean, If I hadn't known where to look for it... I couldn't have found it.

But seriously, If HALF the people who replied in my "How big is your memory" or "Is 64k support important?" thread had posted something in the EP2 thread, I'd have been quite happy...
People seem quite happy to talk about their own stuff, or suggest you keep supporting 64k systems (It's taken WEEKS of coding), but don't seem to enthusiastic to type a quick "great, thanks for programming this!" when you actually do the work and release it.

if you like my game... or you don't like my game, but like that I'm developing CPC games  PLEASE talk about it, here, twitter, facebook or wherever...
If you're liking my game, and not doing anything... I'd rather you F--King hate it, and are so mad about how bad or offensive it is, you go to twitter to compain about how sh-t it is, and try to get all your angry friends protesting against it on youtube, or demand the AVGN reviews it... Cos if no one's talking about it, it might as well not exist - and as far as google is concerned - it wont - so the three people in the world who may actually like playing it will never be able to find it.

Thank you for this post. I have used to show Youtube-videos of your game to my 8 year old son just to show what my old Amstrad can do. He is very impressed and so am I too. Will try to get it on transfered to tape or disc soon. I am one of those that prefer to pay for a real copy if possible.

I will do as you suggest, post about it in other retroforums and Facebook. Your work is highly appreciated and pushes the hardware well. Extremly impressive. You must be one of the very few that can pull this off as your first game on the system.


Once again, THANK YOU!


I am sure many here feel the same of your game.

[6128]

I think that 4mhz had big sales numbers with "adios a la casta", "adios a la casta 2" & "El Tesoro de Cuauhtemoc", maybe they sold hundreds of copies.

As you say, R-type had a lot of sales, even they didn't have enough floppies!!

I don't think that Amstrad games only sell 8 games vs 50 on spectrum, i just don't believe that. Only on my cpc "friend circle" would sell more than 8!!

Even i will say more, games like current projects Pinball dreams & Street Fighter 2 (with proper packages) and possible future games (like SMB) or future 4mhz, cargo soft games will sell several hundreds of copies in days!!

Just my opinion!

50 Amstrad games sold is a success today. 100 games is a megahit of sales.
It does not make much sense to make games for Amstrad with a commercial purpose. There is not enough market. Covering production costs is enough.

[Shining]

Perhaps using such a license would be solve the problem (with a little bit of  ):

The Star And Thank Author License (SATA)


Copyright (c) 2016-2017 DIYgod(i@html.love)


Project Url: https://github.com/DIYgod/DPlayer


Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy
of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal
in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights
to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell
copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is
furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:


The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
all copies or substantial portions of the Software.


And wait, the most important, you shall star/+1/like the project(s) in project url
section above first, and then thank the author(s) in Copyright section.


Here are some suggested ways:


- Email the authors a thank-you letter, and make friends with him/her/them.
- Report bugs or issues.
- Tell friends what a wonderful project this is.
- And, sure, you can just express thanks in your mind without telling the world.


Contributors of this project by forking have the option to add his/her name and
forked project url at copyright and project url sections, but shall not delete
or modify anything else in these two sections.


THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE
AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM,
OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS INTHE SOFTWARE.

[keith56]

Thank you for this post. I have used to show Youtube-videos of your game to my 8 year old son just to show what my old Amstrad can do. He is very impressed and so am I too. Will try to get it on transfered to tape or disc soon. I am one of those that prefer to pay for a real copy if possible.

Really appretiate your comment, however, please bear in mind my game is not suitable for young children! play away, but don't let your 8 year old at it.

Chibi akumas contains a lot of bad language, and the main character is intentionally an extremely bad role-model!

that said, enjoy the game yourself! but let your 8 year old play that new dizzy game on the spectrum instead!
http://www.vintageisthenewold.com/crystal-kingdom-dizzy-2017/

just re-iterating what I said before, I just tried to find a link to this game - I went on duck duck go, and did a search for 'new dizzy game' and even 'new russian dizzy game' (it is russian isn't it?) and could not find it... I had to search for the name of the rom itself... just to say, it's not just my free game or the CPC that needs peoples support!

[keith56]

Perhaps using such a license would be solve the problem (with a little bit of  ):

Well the current EULA I included with all the releases  has the following clause in it: (You DID read the EULA... didn't you?)...

6. Mandatory Enjoyment
By Playing this game , you agree that this is the best game of all time, the author is awesome, that you will sell your soul to Akuma Chibiko, and that these shrink wrap licences that you are forced to agree to (and the authors fully know you will not try to read) are bullsh-t that quite blatantly cannot be legally enforced in a court of law anyway - and that they would be abolished if the legal system wasn't so corrupt and biased in favour of corporations against individuals.

[Rhino]

50 Amstrad games sold is a success today. 100 games is a megahit of sales.
It does not make much sense to make games for Amstrad with a commercial purpose. There is not enough market. Covering production costs is enough.

Does anyone think that it is possible to make money (100k or more) developing for retro computers?
Although they are multiplatform developments?
Maybe this is the real challenge

[mr_lou]

Does anyone think that it is possible to make money (100k or more) developing for retro computers?
Although they are multiplatform developments?
Maybe this is the real challenge

I don't think it's possible to make that kind of money on retrogame development.
But I definitely think it's possible to make more money targeting the niche retro platforms than the modern platforms.
The modern platforms are drowning in games, and the players are youngsters who don't wanna pay anything.
But the retro platforms have a different group of users, older people who is more willing (and can better afford) to pay a small amount for a game, and I also think more of us would be willing.

I admit I haven't bought any newer CPC game myself, but that's been because I've had the wrong mindset. I've been thinking that I don't need/want a physical copy.
But I have donated to developer who's done games that I like.

I would suggest a different approach for the future: Everyone should donate something. Just a small amount. 1 euro would be fine. 10 euro if you really enjoy the game.
I'm sure everyone would be willing to pay a single euro for a new CPC game. It's petty cash to everyone. But to the developer it'll be a great motivator to create the next game.
So even if you don't like the game he just released, donate anyway. He's an active developer, and his next game may be one that you'll like.

All we need is some kind of system everyone can figure out how to use....  I'm not sure it'll be enough to simply write a paypal address.

[andycadley]

With a really successful title, ignoring costs I reckon you could maybe get around €100. The idea of actually making a living off it is laughable. You can probably make more by filming YouTube videos of old games with ads on them. You can certainly do better by making one of those phone games that continually sell micro payment packages of coins and boosts of some sort.